Ridley Scott's war on terror

The director talks about honesty, humanity in film

Director Ridley Scott shoots on location for his new film ''Body of Lies.'' (Francois duhamel)

In the 30-plus years Ridley Scott has been making films, he's covered all manner of subjects, from fencing to replicants, the Crusades to the drug trade. In his new film "Body of Lies," Scott examines the role of the CIA in the war on terrorism.

The movie stars some of Hollywood's biggest names. Leonardo DiCaprio plays a talented young agent with a strong moral code and a thing for a traditional Muslim woman; Russell Crowe is his take-no-prisoners boss who gives top-secret commands from his cellphone while toting his children around suburbia.

Adapted from a bestselling novel by David Ignatius, the spy thriller addresses the complexities of covert US operations in the Middle East and is replete with hyper-real torture scenes.

We caught up with Scott in Los Angeles just before the film's release. At a press conference before our interview, Scott asked who in the room had watched a man beheaded (in real life), stating that such voyeurism is immoral. Audience members looked around at one another, but no one raised a hand. As we began our interview, Scott, disgusted, said he felt they had been dishonest.

Q. How many of them did you think had actually watched a beheading, then?

A. I'll bet you two-thirds of the room. They don't get what's wrong with that. There is a fundamental morality code that, if you don't know what I am talking about, then God help you. To watch such a thing is disgraceful.

Q. Obviously there's a difference between watching such a thing caught on tape and a fictionalized depiction of it. Would you put that kind of scene in a film?

A. I wouldn't watch it to even give myself the excuse that I needed to see it so I'd know what to do [in a film] . . . It's far more prudent and kinder not to see it and allow us to only imagine how horrible that could be, and how sad that could be.

Q. Do you think [having access to things like the beheading video] has changed the way this generation watches films?

A. People will watch anything.

Q. So does that raise the bar for you?

A. It lowers the bar.

Q. Your films are very nuanced explorations of what it means to be a man. Do you think about that going into them?

A. You always put your own experience into things - you should let that happen. The woman in this particular film - what I loved was that she was from the absolute opposite side of the universe in terms of culture. An American is coming in to engage with this person he sets his eyes on, and she is still very much part of Muslim culture, which will not allow her to cross any lines. I think that's really interesting.

Q. The relationship is a bit like going back in time, into the days of courtship. They can't even touch each other. I wonder, do you have what might be considered old-fashioned ideas about love relationships?

A. I don't mean I'm actually a prude, but I think we've come a long way - too far. [Muslims'] caution on one hand is not bad - it's very prudent. It creates a protection zone for women, for a start.

Q. Mystery is a theme in the film. At the beginning, there's a line about cellphones connecting CIA guys to one another, contrasted with the total lack of technology within the terrorist cell. This relates in some way to the relationship between Leonardo DiCaprio's character and the young Muslim woman - she is a part of an older world that confounds us as modern citizens.

A. What's interesting about her being like that is, it has a strong influence on him. Is he in love with her? No! But does he respect her? Absolutely. The relationship makes him vulnerable.

Q. How does the film relate to what's happening in the world right now?

A. The only real choice - where there is no choice to be - is to fundamentally have humanitarian behavior. That's it. If others decide not to, do you reciprocate in the same fashion? The ideal answer is no. So then do we say - and I mean this, obviously, as a compliment - are the CIA soft? Are they naive? Because the people they're against are much harder and crueler.

Q. How do you feel as an adopted American dealing with all these political issues?

A. I think they're my issues just the same. I can't vote, but I feel a great sense of curiosity and position in terms of who I think should get the vote.

Q. This film is partly about the arbitrary assumption of power, and then going ahead with whatever you want to do.

A. And that's wrong. I think there should be codes and standards and controls.

Q. Have your feelings about this country changed in all the years you've been here?

A. No. I still love it. But I also spend a lot of time in England. It's a very good balance for me, because my films take me out as well. It's not that I hunt to go abroad, it's just that I'm fascinated by alternative cultures.

Q. Russell Crowe and Leonardo DiCaprio were saying that working for you is a trial by fire. I get the sense that you keep your actors on a pretty tight leash.

A. What I've found is you can't let anything go by - you have to speak. I love to encourage actors to come forward with suggestions so it's not me saying, "This is what it is and that's what you're going to do!" Everything's an evolution. So they're encouraged - well, not Russell and Leo, they're not going to be shy in coming forward, believe me! - but I mean, if I've got someone coming in new, like Mark Strong [the character Hani in "Body of Lies"], I hadn't worked with him before and I really enjoyed that experience, so I liked to include him in the process. Everything, right down to how he looks. What do you think, what do you think, what do you think?

Q. Leo said you're a human editing bay. Many major directors are such auteurs, never criticizing themselves on set, I'm wondering how you developed that process, and how you had the confidence, even early on, to know that you could second-guess yourself.

A. Advertising. That was my film school. And also in advertising, I learned that for speed, I have to operate, so I was a camera operator through everything I did. So that took me right through "Duelists" and "Alien." I tried to operate on "Blade Runner" but I wasn't allowed to because I was the new kid in town. And then "Legend" was all operated [by me].

Q. In some sense it's like working for other people helped you work for yourself.

A. Actors love it when you're on the camera. Looking at them you're looking right into their eyes, and you can talk to them this close. Just like working as a fashion photographer, you're talking and talking - it's a one-on-one. Actors really like that.