Thursday question: Granny/Grampy's a bigot

I think this is a tough one! I have been in this situation a few times. One time was at a family holiday dinner when an elderly relative I didn't know well and my brother were greatly enjoying slamming every ethnic group imaginable. I protested and presented opposing views but the bigotry was so offensive I eventually stood up and stated that if it didn't stop I was leaving. And it stopped. Another time my parents brought friends of theirs to my house and these friends also proceeded to slam every ethnic group imaginable - this was more tricky - I couldn't leave since it was my own house and I was technically the host, these were older people I had never met and they were old friends of my parents. Still, I finally got tough and put an end to it in a not so nice way. In retrospect I should have probably just excused myself, saying I couldn't be a part of this conversation, and left the room. But when your blood is boiling it can be hard to be rational. Being in high school makes this even more difficult because you run the risk of getting your parents upset with you or being labeled "Little Miss High and Mighty" (or Mr.) or being patronized with "when you're older and seen more of the world you'll understand." I would suggest just leaving the room. If you need to give an explanation, a polite, "I'm sorry, but this conversation is really offensive to me and I need to leave before I say something I regret" should suffice and appease your parents as well.

My in-laws are very bigoted and my son, now 25 is very verbal with them, (in a nice way) that he will leave if the comments continue. He has had a private conversation w/both his grandmother and grandfather (divorced and remarried) that he finds these comments offensive as (a) he has many friends of many different ethnicity and (b) he has traveled much of the world and met a lot of others. They were initially offended, thinking him disrespectful of his elders, but as he has gotten older and held his ground (leaving w/o making a scene), they have come to temper their comments. They also know that my husband and I back him 100%.

You have the option of choosing not to be an active listener--people like this tend to wind down when they don't have an engaging audience. Or, you could say something like, "Gee, Grandma, I know you're not a bigot...but someone listening to this conversation might begin to think otherwise..."

I would say that their comments are very offensive to you and then excuse yourself. Go to another room or take a walk. Do this consistently and I think people will get the message. It might even make them think about their behavior.

Here's my standard reply to people who start spouting off bigoted or otherwise offensive remarks in my presence: "I am so sorry if I gave you the impression that I'd find remarks like that acceptable. Please excuse me."
To my high school-age daughter, I gave this advice when she asked the same question the LW did: You only have to satisfy your own conscience. You don't have to convince the other person that he or she is wrong. So speak your piece graciously, then excuse yourself if possible. You've done your duty as a human being.

My parents & grandparents still use the "N" word. You just have to live with it. Why fight a losing fight?

This is a tricky situation and, as often happens, it depends on the particulars. People from older generations have different ways of thinking and expressing themselves - what we consider inappropriate and offensive was par for the course when they were our age. However much it offends us, they have to some degree earned the right to express themselves as they please. You don't have to agree or even listen to it (Cordelia's advice for removing yourself is spot on), but you have to remember that their view of what's normal is just different.

They've been around the block and it's possible that their experience with a particular group of people has been negative, so they've generalized. Is that wrong? Yep. But how many people do you know who NEVER generalize? I'm guessing not many. It might not be for ethnic or racial reasons, but almost everyone does it - and with general acceptance. See collections of jokes about: lawyers, doctors, insurance agents, used car salesman, politicians. When was the last time you left the room because someone made a snide remark about a used car salesman? Fifty years ago, it was normal to add minority groups in with the professions.

Something else to consider is that, just because someone says something that sounds bigoted, it doesn't mean they truly believe it. It's just how they communicate. Homework - watch "Gran Torino" - ALL of it. I won't give anything away, but it's completely applicable to this question.

My brother is a bigot and makes a sport at family gatherings of ranting and rallying against people different from himself. I find it highly offensive and especially resent his verbal outpouring of vile, hatred and drivel in front of my children. Over the years I have given him the silent treatment; avoided gatherings where he is present; avoided being seated at his table; moved to another room; attempted to counter his irrational philosophies; explained to my children that we don't value or share his thinking. Ultimately, I've accepted him for who and what he is -- a belligerent bigot to the very core who will never change. If you can't change a bigot, you simply go on with your own enlightened existence and make a point to be welcoming and respectful to those you meet along the way. Ultimately, God’s light and justice shall prevail.

This issue rises to a whole new level of urgency when you become a parent. I made the decision to no long attend family functions on my Mother's side because of the racist and homophobic conversations that are commonplace.

My duty is first and foremost to protect my child and while he is sure to hear stupid people spout hate and intolerance in the real world it would be inexcusable to me if I intentionally brought him to an environment where I know for certain he'll be bombarded with idiocy.

We covered this issue on a recent episode of NomX3, http://nomx3.com/henriettas-kitchen-at-the-charles-hotel/ , in which I recounted my need to confront homophobic talk that was happening at a family BBQ. Now, these weren't elderly people as Amy R refers to but younger people (40s and 20s) who should know better. However, I'd like to think I would do the same if it were an 80 year old with all his or her faculties.

As my Great Grandmother used to say, "the day I stop learning is the day I die." Why should learning to be more tolerant or at a minimum learning to observe new standards of acceptable conversation be removed from that mantra?

My in laws are still bent out of shape, and still bring up to my husband, the time I left the dinner table because my father in law kept bashing gay people. He uses my "outburst" as an example of how I "need to learn my place." It was better to leave the room than to say what I wanted to say, but my second "outburst" where I spoke up for my ethnic group (my husband and I are a biracial couple, and my father in law has some opinions about "white people") got me "disowned" by my inlaws. Some people cannot be reasoned with, and these toxic people are best avoided than debated. Unfortunately, that is our tactic now.

I've struggled with the same thing in my family, though it's relatives of all ages participating in the bigotry.

With my grandparents, I tend to just ignore it. They are constantly sending me forwarded emails about the illegal aliens stealing our jobs and government benefits or how evil Obama is. As much as I would like to respond with a link to snopes.com disproving them, I've gotten to the point where I just delete these forwards without even reading them. It's not going to improve my relationship with them to engage in fruitless political debates. I'd rather just change the subject and talk about something else, so that I can enjoy the rest of my time with them. My grandparents have mellowed quite a bit in recent years, so politics rarely comes up when I see them.

With my younger cousins, I'm usually so shocked by the words that come out of their mouths that I just stare in horror. If I could think of anything to say in return, my cousins would probably counter with some barb about me being a big city liberal and ignore me. So again, I'd rather take the route of enjoying the time we spend together. If I saw them more than a couple of times a year, I might feel the need to educate them.

My advice would be to just change the subject. Refuse to participate in that kind of dicussion. Just because they have prejudices, doesn't mean you have to listen to them. If you can't change the subject, leave the room and if they ask why, tell them that you are not comfortable with the conversation. Hopefully, they'd rather be spending quality time with you than spouting hate.

Cordeilia, I'm sorry there are people who think when you're older you'll be more accepting of racism. That's a doozy. I agree in that particular case, stating you find the conversation offensive, and excusing yourself is the right thing to do. Good for you for thinking that through.

I think with bigoted remarks, in general, people have a responsibility at the very least to let it be known they find such views offensive, and will not entertain insulting conversations. In the case of someone so blinkered that they are comfortable being openly bigoted, it's unlikely a single conversation would have the effect of righting the empirical wrong. But, if the bigoted person meets with resistance often enough they may notice a pattern. Or at least learn how to have a conversation in civilized society.

In my experience, although I don't condone anybody's bigoted beliefs, in the case of some older people, you just can't change their mind no matter what you say. Therefore, if you can't teach them not to be the way they may be, I think we should be teaching our kids to have an open and objective mind towards these matters.

"You have to be taught to hate and fear, you have to be taught from year to year, it has to be drummed in your dear little ear, you have to be carefully taught."

Oscar Hammerstein II, South Pacific

Since it was my house I would have told them to leave. No one has to put up with this kind of bigotry in their own home, relatives or not.
I grew up with this kind of bigotry and my mother lived long enough to see the error of her ways. When someone of another ethnic group helped her out when my father died, I turned around and said to her, "What do you think of THOSE people now?". She couldn't answer me although she had customers (she was a seamstress) and friends of that ethnic group in her lifetime.
Wisdom doen't automatically come with age, and just because you are older doen't mean you deserve respect- respect has to be EARNED,

I just let them talk. They (meaning my elders) never treat anyone poorly to their face....so what does it matter if they crack ethnic jokes and refer to their neighbors as "the asians"? Although we are harsher on our own Irish/Polish/Catholic heritage than anyone else. I think it's one thing to MAKE the remarks and it's another thing to actually follow through. It's like the episode of All in the Family, where Archie's invited to join the Klan and burn crosses on a neighbor's lawn. Now Archie is the most loud-mouthed bigoted character, but when push comes to shove even he knew that there's a difference between saying something and doing something. (Although I could be remembering the episode incorrectly).
So if the elders are just talking...let them run their mouths. If you actually SEE them treat someone poorly, that's different. Choose your battles wisely. Which one is more important to you?

Perhaps as a high school student you're naive about the world and think everything is lollipops and rainbows.

Your relatives have lived life and may have very valid reasons for their feelings as long as they are not acting out violently towards others they live in a free country (or at least it use to be) and are allowed to not only have these feelings, but openly express them.

Remember the most protected from of speech is that which we don't want to hear.

Everyone deserves equal respect. Our "elders" don't deserve more respect simply because they are older. Hopefully, with age comes wisdom. But many older people tend to be more close-minded, and thus more prejudiced, racist, homophobic, etc. Their opinions are no more important than that of a child or teenager. Often their opinions are based on flawed data or long-held beliefs that were prevalant 40-50+ years ago. At the same time, the elderly deserve no less respect either and with their age comes great experience in some cases. An elderly aunt from another country is currently at home taking care of my newborn son. A few weeks ago we asked her about the status of gays and lesbians in her home country. She gave a brief answer and then started talking about pedophilia. It was a completely inappropriate answer that reflected her age and her religious identity. Thankfully our son is too young to speak or understand what she is saying. She's a great caregiver to a newborn but when he is old enough to speak and understand, I won't allow her in his life. I won't let "trusted" elderly family members whose voicees will traditionally carry lots of weight equate gays with child rapists.

You should feel free to speak your mind, even if they will be dismissive of you be cause of your age. Keeping things bottled up is not healthy. I also believe that some older people can open their minds if properly engaged. So speak your mind.

It is the time they are from. There isnt anything you can do, besides feel bad for them that they are stuck in this mindset. The hardest part is keeping those comments from being heard by kids. Keep in mind also, some of these elderly were in wars, and it has to be tough to break a mindset about someone who you were trained to kill when you were in your late teens and 20's. What we learn in our younger years stays with us. Luckily, being part the generation we are a part of, we see the mistakes made from the past, and we try and correct them. Look how far we have come, 40 years from now, people will think they we are as bad our elders now.

Our family of seven kids had a great-uncle who had nowhere else to go on holidays, so he'd come to our house. He lived in Buffalo and had been mugged once, and it turned him into a bigot. A couple of drinks and he'd start complaining about minorities.

One Thanksgiving, we arranged for a close family friend, a very big, cuddly black man with a great sense of humor to come to the house at just the right time (after those couple of drinks). One of my little sisters pretended he was her boyfriend and greeted him in the living room right in front of Uncle Ed, whereupon they engaged in the biggest, longest, wettest, smoochiest kiss of all time. It shut Ed right up and we never heard another bigoted remark from him.

Meanwhile... practice keeping your cool. For one thing, you aren't being personally attacked. For another, there's a lot more you can do for your cause, if you do keep cool. For instance, you could ask your elderly relatives about their actual experiences of people from these other groups. People who are set in their ways or actually hard of hearing can be hard enough to engage, even without introducing any disagreement or criticism.

For people who may be opinionated, but are still capable of lively conversation... can you respond with humor?

One time, an elderly Chinese woman was telling me how bad black kids are, particularly her daughter's college roommate (who did sound pretty bad). So I said she should meet this black guy I know, who would make a great son in law. He became a VP at Xerox before he was 30. I think I was able to engage her a bit.

Another time... I still don't have an answer for this one. It was within a year or two of 9/11, and my cousin made some joke about 'towelheads'. It actually took me a few minutes to figure out that 'towelhead' is a Limbaugh term for Muslim & by then it was far too late to respond. I wish I had said, "gee, all the people I know with turbans are Parsees..." Actually I would have gotten his attention more by telling him about the muslim women I saw in Mali, who work the fields wearing a skirt but no top....

For an example of humor, check out the President's most recent appearance on Letterman.

My dad is always right, my grandfather is always right. My mom is right sometimes, and my grandmother is right sometimes.

As far as aunts, uncles, and cousins -- they don't know what they're talking about.

Proceed with your actions (or non-actions) based on the template above. It works for me.

i think more than bigotry, elderly people tend to just be ignorant of what is an acceptable term nowadays. sure, some people fall in the former category, and when that is the case i think it is okay for someone of any age to politely let them know you (and the majority of the enlightened world) disagree with them and if they continue to act in that manner you will either have to ask them to leave or no longer be a part of the family gatherings.
when there is no harm intended, as it has been in my experience, i usually go the route of letting it slide. it may be startling to hear them use a severely outdated ethnic term, but understand that it wasn't outdated when they were young and was probably quite commonplace. however, if you are offended, you are perfectly within your right you tell them that referring to that ethnicity in such a way is not appropriate anymore.
bottom line, whether you are in high school, college, adult, or senior, age is not an excuse for bigotry and letting it go unchecked is just another way of confirming to them that their behavior is okay.

I agree with the reader who said something along the lines of 'I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that this kind of talk is acceptable for me." You take responsibility for your own ears and mouth and maybe offenders will think about what they said.

From JT: "Remember the most protected from of speech is that which we don't want to hear."

With that logic, wouldn't the letter writer's vocalization of disagreement with his/her elders be speech they (the elders) don't want to here, therefore - protected free speech?

Free speech is an important right and should never be thrown around lightly as support for bigotry, racism or hatred.

As an ethnic minority, I am heartened to read this healthy discussion. There is no easy answer here - I agree with several of you that every sub-group makes derogatory comments about other ethnicities/nationalities/regional.. Its not like Asians dont crack jokes about blacks, whites or latinos. But on the other hand, I would hate to teach my kids to not stand up for their beliefs.
So, respectfully stating your position and walking away from the scene seems to be a good solution. Over time, they will start respecting your viewpoint and avoid those offensive comments atleast in your midst.

I have little to offer here, but it's interesting reading the responses.

My inlaws are ordinarily lovely people, but they are clearly prejudiced - in language, if not action - against Jews and African-Americans. My mother, also a lovely person, has become very vocal about how unacceptable she finds gay marriage.

I don't want to pick fights, because that's not going to change anyone's mind. (Learned from experience.) But I will sometimes pretend ignorance when somebody uses an offensive term; "Jewish lightning? What's that? Oh, arson? Geez, that's a nasty way to put it!" And if I can, I try to gently interject a human face on the object of the bigotry - mentioning by name friends of mine who are gay, happily married and raising children, the lovely Kol Nidre and Yom Kippur services at which I sing every year, my son's black classmate who is so sweet about encouraging him in hockey, the gay character in "Glee" who came out to his dad in last night's episode. (made me cry).

I like to think that every time I toss out a positive racial/cultural reference it helps to undo a negative one a little bit.

I am 82; my wife is nearly as old. I certainly think no one should permit persons to speak in a bigoted way in his home, and should leave other places if such people will not stop.
However, I resent the smug assumption on the part of so many Miss Conduct readers that "old people" are automatically prejudiced against certain ethnic groups and "young people" are usually not. That hasn't been my experience. Nor do I think that "lawyer" jokes are on a par with "n--- jokes."
The only people my wife and I are bigoted against are bigots.

MakeLoveNotWar, you said your aunt made bigoted comments about gay people but "Thankfully our son is too young to speak or understand what she is saying. She's a great caregiver to a newborn but when he is old enough to speak and understand, I won't allow her in his life. I won't let "trusted" elderly family members whose voicees will traditionally carry lots of weight equate gays with child rapists."
I totally disagree with your aunt's ideas as well, but this seems like very unfair exploitation of your aunt. You will use her as a babysitter now but cut her off completely when your son is older? If you feel that she is such a bad person, you should send her home now and not use her as a babysitter at all.

Alot of it with the older generation is ingrained from experience. My grandfather (died 20 years ago) was a bomber pilot in the Pacific in WWII. Once the Japanese bombed Pearl - the Japanese where forever know as "Japs" or worse. He was stridently anti-Japanese his whole life and would say all kinds of crazy things and would revel in the fact we dropped 2 a-bombs on them. What do you say to him? He got shot down twice, lost many of his best friends in combat with the Japanese...He "earned" his hatred so-to-speak. He's probably rolling over in his grave now that I've married a Toyota engineer ansd we only drive Toyota cars...

All this stuff about them being old and unaware is just cr*p, as is the notion that they don't really mean it. There's no excuse for this kind of behavior. I'm old and I know better than to use ethnic/racial/homophobic slurs. While older people may not be familiar with the finer nuances of political correctness ("Asian" instead of "Oriental," "African-American or black" instead of "colored," "Down's Syndrome" instead of "Mongoloid"), the use of slurs is not acceptable and never has been. If this is just a matter of using old-fashioned terminology, then simply state that the correct and respectful term is........... and let it go at that. An ethnic slur requires a different level of response.

That said, you are unlikely to change them. People who feel that way and feel comfortable saying those kinds of things out loud are not likely to alter their views because you point out the error of their ways. However, you have a responsibility not to sit still for bigotry. You owe it to the other young people in your family not to allow this to be considered acceptable and you owe it to your friends of different races and ethnicities not to stand idly by. But you must understand that as you demand respect for others, you need to demonstrate respect for your elders and family, so be as respectful in your response as you want them to be. I like the response above - "I am so sorry if I gave you the impression that I'd find remarks like that acceptable. Please excuse me." and then leave the room. Or "I'm sorry, but I can't just sit here and listen to this. Out of respect for you, I think it best that I leave before I say something rude."

By not saying anything, you give your consent to that type of dialogue. Count me amongst those who refuse to attend family functions because of the racist, homophobic remarks. I am also in a biracial marriage with a biracial child. I suppose in their small mind ignorance is bliss....

How about it doesn't matter if you find these comments acceptable. Where on earth have we gone as human beings when we are willing disrespect our grandparents for people that we don't know, whether we personnally believe in what they are saying or not.

The simple fact is you have no f_ing idea what you grandparents have been through nor does your pretentious "me" generation attitude provide you with the intelligence to ask or understand! Last I checked, Grandparents of the age 80 have lived through at least two wars of which they probably took part in one or both. Do you pretend to know what it was like for your grandparents to be fighting in Europe or Asia, watching thousands of people (Americans) die at the hands of German or Japanese people? Can you even begin to comprehend what that might do to your state of mind?

I have an idea, stop whining about "how mad it makes you" to hear these comments and spend a few minutes trying to understand your grandparents perspective.

Many people in my family make derogatory comments about Italian-Americans, but since we're all Italian-American I'm not sure what to do.....

My in laws are along similar lines (though not as bad or as obvious as some of the examples on here). They are rather conservative (couldn't call them by their first names, even after we were married), but otherwise very kind people. Which is why it bugs the heck out of me when they start up with their comments and observations, especially given that my parents are the opposite, very tolerant, open minded etc and I have been brought up that way. My MIL makes somewhat ill-informed comments about blacks (especially bi-racial children), my FIL isn't thrilled with gays and neither of them like Obama (and while it mostly has something to do with his policies,there's definitely some resentment on his skin color). My husband is the opposite of all this and will call them out on it, but I have just learned to keep my mouth shut. My BIL said something to them when my nieces arrived, and I plan on saying the same thing when we have a child. I can understand grandparents, but my in laws are not old by any means and I feel like they could be a bit more tolerant and a little less vocal.

All you have to do is say, "Some people think that (insert bigot's own ethnicity/religion/etc.here) are (insert commonly held misconception here)."

Have them watch "Gran Torino"... seriously. Great film with Clint Eastwood about an old and racist Vietnam vet who end ups befriending a Vietnamese family.

With grandparents and other older people, i would tend to just ignore it. They grew up in different times and had very different experiences. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If it bothers you that much, leave the room or change the subject.

Speak up. You have a right to speak and be heard just as much as any adult. Intelligent adults will welcome comments and engagement from young people. You may not be able to change minds, but you might, or you might get the adults to think about what they are saying as opposed to reverting to stereotypes out of laziness or ignorance. More importantly, you have made your voice heard. You will feel good about yourself. Be respectful, but stake out your territory. You don't need to be subjected to bigotry just because you are younger.

This is crystal clear. Past gernerations have experienced different conditions that we do now. No judgement, things were just different.
My grandfather was a bigot, he had a blak man shine his shoes every day during the Spanish-American war. Everyday.

I did not change him with my emotion and anger, I tried.

My Granfather died in 1977. He was a good man, mis guided but a good man.

My son knows no prejudice, it is my job to make this so.

Follow your heart, if you are true to this, then it will work.

I loved my Granfather and miss him, I wish I could sit and talk to him now.

BUT, I would not let my son live in past perception.

I agree with Enna about the poster who said it was okay for her kid to be around the grandmother while the kid was still a baby, but not okay once the kid could understand the grandmother's bigotry.

Wow - that's messed up. It's okay to use her to babysit, but not okay once the kid's cognisant? WTF You're a loser.

Regarding the LW - stand up for your opinions.

US,
Your comments are truly disturbing. Respecting our elders does not mean blindly accepting their hateful words. One can disagree and still be respectful. Whatever experiences we may have had at the hands of different kinds of people, it does not entitle us to hate all of the people who look and sound like them forever. I am black and have faced horrible discrimination (which was legal back then) at the hands of white people. Does that entitle me to hate all white people and call them names (in front of my children, no less)? While eighty year olds have been through two World Wars (which obviously had strongly racial/ethnic overtones), that experience does not mean they get to hate all Germans or Japanese, especially since the people and the governments against whom they fought are long dead and gone. Do the Japanese-Americans whose homes were taken and who were placed in "internment camps" get to hate your grandparents and you forever? Does age mean we get to hang on to our hatreds forever and pass them on to the next generations?

While your grandparents may have lived through two world wars, they have also lived through the Great Depression, the era of Jim Crow, the Civil Rights Movement, the Women's movement, the Gay Rights movement. They have borne witness to the visions and the assassinations of JFK, RFK and Martin Luther King. They have watched as we dismantled the racism, sexism and homophobia of the past. If they learned hatred from the wars, shouldn't they have earned tolerance (in the best sense of that word) from the rest of history? If history is the excuse, then history does not support their bigotry.

I'm glad we got to this. :)

My boyfriend's dad often says things about the current presidential administration that I really think are inaccurate (empirically wrong, if you will); but then again, we have very different political leanings. It's hard to avoid because the cable news is always on. He's a good man, and while I do get uncomfortable at times, I just don't think it is my place to tell someone who has 50+ years of experience and service on me that he's wrong. (Not being related makes it even harder. I'll go toe to toe with my own father any time.)

#32 so what's your rationale for using the "N" word? If you're old enough to remember slavery, perhaps?

This is the wicked way of the world, and until EVERYONE
(all genders, all ages,all colors, all races, all religions) are treated equally, there will be this mentality.
We live in a very black oriented culture, and it is difficult for some people to understand the fascination. They feel threatened, and react this way.
I can not tell someone what is right or wrong, because I do not have that right. But I can make sure I am not a part of something I do not feel is correct.

You're grandparents are 100% right. You are in high school. You know nothing. You think you know everything, but in 20 years you'll realize how smart your grandparents were. In 30 yrs you'll have some teenager telling you how the world is and how it should be.

Their opinions are theirs, respect them because they have earned the right to have them. They worked hard, raised a family, and paid thier dues. Because of their hard work you have the freedom to whine incessently about how you feel the world should be. Thank them.

If their opinions are different than yours-accept it. Move on.

If you say nothing, if you do nothing except quietly walk away - the bigots will only think that you agree with them. Because that's what they do.
So if you don't agree with them, you *must* make that as vocally clear as possible, there's no other way around it.

LW, it sounds like you're being intolerant to your family's opinion.

Why must you be intolerant of bigots?

If you're going to be tolerant and accepting, then you should accept their opinions.

My elderly parents are and have always been Archie Bunker bigots but would be shocked to be considered such. Every time I see them, they still make the same offensive comments they've been making since I was a kid. Now that I have children of my own, when they start ranting, I excuse myself with my children and simply leave the room. If it is just me, I let them talk, stare at them and don't say a word. If they ask me a question, I'll give them my honest answer and stick with my opinion only without referencing their views. I've tried all other approaches and this has worked best for me and it seems to stop the conversation quickly.

Dan, you are an idiot. You and US should get together and pound down some manly drinks and complain about "these young kids today". The truth is, just because you're old doesn't mean you're right. You can be alive 80 plus years and still not have learned a thing.

Unfortunately this is still a hot topic in our day and age. For the majority of us born after the 1950's we can't imagine people not being accepting of others.
When it comes to the elderly as many have stated this is how they were raised and maybe even dealt with situations that made them feel like their actions and feelings towards others of a different race was acceptable. All you can do is try to have a civilized conversation on how you feel. This might be done best at a time when you are alone together one on one and not in a large group of people. State how you feel and then let them talk. While age is never an excuse maybe no one has taken the time to show them a different way of looking at things since it is "respect your elders" and what not. You might never be able to fully change their mind or train of thought but maybe they will think twice before making a racist comment the next time.

Dan, if we relied on the "wisdom" of our elders, the earth would still be considered flat and we would be living in the Dark Ages. Enlightenment comes from learning from experiences, not the experience itself. Yeah, teenagers have a lot to learn about life, when I was a teen I believed what my parents taught me. Then I went out into the world, and what I have seen and experienced has changed a lot of my perceptions. But even being from the south I was told to never, EVER, judge a person based on color. Sure, cultures are different, but the basic human condition is there in every one of us. That's what we have to learn to respect.

My mother attacked the problem by loudly and sternly explaining to the very-young me that "we don't use those sorts of names" in front of my grandfather when I innocently used a racial slur I'd just heard him use. The volume and passion behind her response scared the heck out of me at the time, and it was years later that I realized she'd meant for my grandfather to hear it. (I don't think it had much effect, however, as it didn't stop him using those terms.)

Another important point - Your amount of igdignation towards comments made by your elderly family members should be inversley proportional to the potential inheritence you may received from said deceased bigots. Just common sense.

My husbands father is latino, lives in another country, has never known a white American, and believes every stereotype he has ever heard about them. It is interesting, as a majority here, to prove to my father-in-law in another country that I am not the following: stupid, racist, think my nose belongs in everybody's business, a bully, loud, fat and overweight, and completely materialistic. I know he constantly jokes with my husband about Americans, and am proud to hear my husband stand up for me showing I have strong family values, am well educated, and love meeting all races and ethnicities and learning more about the world around me. Just because some people in a group may fall under every stereotype, does not mean that every person in that group deserves to be labeled with it.

Veronica, the only problem with that is that speech has an effect too. Hearing bigoted, hateful speech not only can warp other people's view of what's okay, it's like giving a green light to the people who are more extreme and who do want to do things. Hate isn't okay, no matter what it's form.

I ran in to similar issues as the writer with my own grandparents. My one grandma, with whom I was very close, would have a loud, argument/discussion about things sometimes. And sometimes we'd have a quieter discussion, about how when she grew up, phrases like "shining like a n******* ear" were totally okay, and that it's a long force of habit.

I think just swallowing reactions isn't okay though. A great piece I recently read that addresses this is called "The Terrible Bargain We Have Regretfully Struck" (http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/08/terrible-bargain-we-have-regretfully.html). As awkward as it is to say "That's offensive. Please don't make racist/bigoted/sexist/homophobic/ableist/whathaveyou remarks", I think it's a lot better than just letting the hate continue. You probably won't change anyone's mind the first time, but with enough time, you can change it.

My grandmother, like others mentioned above, will frequently use offensive terms or make generalizations about ethnic groups, and not seem to realize that they seem inappropriate to others. I could never imagine her acting on these words, but it seems to be important to her to mention that whoever she's telling a story about happens to be black, Puerto Rican, etc.

Growing up, my mother would just let these things go, while explaining to us that Grandma was too old to change and it wasn't worth getting into with her. I didn't agree that it was something I could listen to, and would try to engage her in conversation about why she thought that way or attempting to point out that it didn't really matter that the woman who did X on the bus today was Russian. It still continues today, because it doesn't seem like she sees it as being wrong, but I know that I have to keep trying so that I can feel I've stood up for my convictions.

However, to share an anecdote about this: a family moved in next door to my grandmother a few years ago, and she would frequently tell stories about them, since she tends to keep up with what the neighbors are doing. She would refer to the family as "the blacks", and one day my mom, finally fed up with it, asked her something about "Mr. Black". When my grandmother didn't know who she was talking about, my mother explained that she had simply assumed the neighbors' last name was Black, since thats how she always referred to them.

I think the guiding principle in these situations is to stay true to your own convictions and beliefs while not disrespecting someone who ultimately is your family. However, if you're not getting respect back from them, I agree with the commenters who say to leave the room or avoid the situation, especially when children are involved.

Cordelia and Ritan1- bravo. I could not agree more.
If you don't like what's being said, you say so and excuse yourself.

Bigots often thrive on the idea that slurs don't offend anyone except to the minorities labeled with them.
If we show that it's simply not the case and that slurs offend everyone- including their loved ones- maybe they'll rethink using them.
We don't need to argue or preach, we simply need to say we're offended and walk away.

Huh. I was recently at a family gathering where a cousin's husband said something derogatory about our uncle and his partner of forty-plus years who were unable to attend. Basically, the entire event wouldn't have been possible without gay people having children and families in at least three generations that I know of. The bigotry was coming from someone certainly old enough to know better (fortyish), but too ignorant to appreciate what his extended family provided for him to enjoy!
(Not to mention dumb enough to make his comment while sitting next to me; my parents are all gay.)

For the most part, the older folks I know are MORE likely to count a wider variety of people as friends - and less likely to be lopping branches off the family tree for ANY reason.

I have never understood this insistence that just because someone was born before I was that they deserved unending respect. A bigot is a bigot at any age. I would simply tell them that I refuse to participate in such conversations and then leave. If the same situation occurred again, I'd consider just not bothering with them.

Makelovenotwar

You use your elderly aunt to take care of your son?? Then when he is older and understands her bigotry...you won't let her in his life??? Talking about bigots!!!!!!

This is a tough situation that I can identify with personally. Like most good etiquette conundrums, this can be a darned if you do, darned if you don't, pick-the-lesser-evil solution. You have three things to consider. Will the relative's ideologies ever change? Will the relative consider it offensive if you suggest an alternate point of view? And finally, what threshold must the relative cross before the relationship is not worth sustaining?

In my experience, my grandparents views will never change. Yet their views aren't polarizing, IMO, they simply don't know any different, and wouldn't estrange me for my alternate beliefs. Finally, in my grandparents' final years, I believe I can suffer through a few ignorant comments for the sake of a more peaceful relationship. I don't have kids and don't have any ethnic diversity within my own family, so I let it go. Usually, I will briefly remind my grandparents of what others thought of their own ethnic group many years ago, and drop it.

Robin says: This is the 4,000th published comment on this blog! Congratulations, Sarah B, you have just won a meaningless statistic.

It's quite possibly to _respectfully_ disagree with others, regardless of their age or relationship. Causing a scene in any way is not respectful. Sit down with the person privately, and give them specific examples of the things you find hurtful. See where the conversation goes. If Grandma says "Oh, I didn't realize that '' was considered offensive", you can give her a better choice. If Uncle Bubba says "But all are ", you can say something like "I don't agree, but let's agree to disagree and talk about other things at family gatherings."

Failing that, rather than defending the picked-upon group, why not just try to change the topic? And if that doesn't work, you can quietly walk away. Surely someone needs a refill of a beverage, or some dishes need to go into the kitchen, or there's a small child who wants someone to play CandyLand....

This is such a hard situation. My main thought, after reading Amy R's letter and the comments, is that saying "that's offensive to me" doesn't help. Although it's couched in an "I" statement and is therefore not supposed to be heard as attacking the speaker, it's going to be heard as an attack. And that's fine in many situations -- someone who makes bigoted remarks in public has failed to show respect for others; you feel attacked AND slimed by the assumption that you share the speaker's views (ick!!); so a strong response feels right.

But if these are people who you have to keep on seeing and interacting with (as family members tend to be), I'm wondering if attempting to engage the bigoted speaker in some way might also work. Asking a simple question, like "Why do you say that?" or "Why do you feel that way?" may make the speaker actually think. Sometimes people mindlessly repeat things because they are familiar and comforting, but they haven't really thought them through, especially in view of new evidence. As in, "Mom, how can you keep saying that about gay people with that nice lesbian family who just moved in next door, especially after they mowed your lawn last time you were away?"

So if you have the fortitude and think you can keep your cool, engaging like this communicates that you disagree with the bigoted statements and you're going to talk with the speaker about such things whenever he or she makes such statements and it's going to get pretty exhausting for them! If the family knows not to get Uncle Bob going about his WWII exploits because he'll never cede the floor again, eventually they'll figure out that you're not going to cede the high ground either and it may be easier just to avoid getting YOU started.

But these bigoted statements sometimes come from deep, angry, endless places, and so all of the positive engagement in the world isn't going to change anything. A high school kid, however, should be able to ask her parents for support in dealing with something that is obviously causing her pain. It's certainly appropriate for the grown-ups to set the rules -- as in, "there will be no such talk in our home" -- and these rules apply to everyone, even the elders. So make sure you show your parents this blog!

And on the issue of whether you can teach an old dog new tricks (and to the "old" folks who posted here and said they want to be held to the same standards of human interaction as everyone else -- hip hip hooray! ), I remember my first job out of law school. There was an old senior judge in the courthouse who we law clerks sometimes assisted. He was a gentleman and a scholar, but insisted on calling all women "girls" and it was very inappropriate at times. In one of our many conversations about what, if anything, to do about it, one of my colleagues voiced the "he's old and set in his ways and deserves our respect" argument. Another colleague responded, "He has to keep up on the latest court decisions and rules of evidence and learn new things all the time -- he can certainly learn this!"

After years of dealing with idiot family members of my own, I've decided that life is too short to deal with homophobes, racists, and bigots, even if they are part of your family. When the vile talk starts, tell them you would rather not have that conversation and change the subject. If they insist on making boneheaded comments about any group, then leave. No high drama, no explanations, no excuses needed.

You can be polite, but still stand up for yourself and your beliefs. Don't ever confuse showing respect to anyone with being a doormat.

I agree with some of the other comments: next time you are over at your relatives' homes, you should talk with them before the topic even comes up about how you feel when they make such comments and to please refrain when you are in their company. Personally, I see no reason to try to change people's mind, because some people will be open to change, while others are not. But if you sense that your relatives are open to a discussion, then use your best judgment.

But sometimes people are not willing to change even for a loved one. The question you have to ask yourself is whether you are willing to sacrifice the relationship for your principles and ideals. If they refuse to change and you are not willing to put up with the behavior, let them know that if they continue to speak in such a way, you will no longer come to family functions. Then you have to follow through. However, if the relationship is more important, then simply bite your tongue - attend the events, but don't engage in the conversation when it makes that turn.

US

If your grandparents fought the Germans and Japanese in WWII and still make ethnic slurs, then they obviously didn't understand what they were fighting for.

Anyone who fought the Nazis and then comes home and makes ethnic slurs against other Americans clearly doesn't "get it."

My stepkids have faced this situation directly. My husband's ex-wife is native Puerto Rican and the four kids, all now in their 30's resemble her. Lucky kids - they are gorgeous! My husband's mother is a wonderful, totally unbigoted woman, but her neighbor Betsy has issues. At a dinner at my house that Betsy came to she used the term Spic several times. We were horrified. One of my stepdaughters came to me later to seek advice. She was torn between the age-old "respect your elders" edict that she had grown up with, and the perfectly understandable wish to defend her ethnicity. I told her that respecting one's elders implies that the elder is respecting her back and that if that isn't the case, then she doesn't have to live with the denigration. She decided to speak privately to Betsy without creating a fuss at the dinner. She did, Betsy learned a valuable lesson, my stepdaughter learned that it is more than just ok to stick up for yourself (it is imperative) and a learning experience was had by all. I'm very proud of her and her way of handling the situation.

Reading through the comments, I think its important to distinguish between two groups of people - the ignorant folks discussed by #7 who may not know any better (like my grandfather from rural Maine who would refer to the black people he saw on TV as "jigaboos" or #66's Betsy who used the term Spic) and the people mentioned by #8 and in my post (#1) that truly get enjoyment out of spouting bigotry. It sounds as if the LW's relatives may be the latter because he/she mentions not rising to the bait. They very well could be getting their jollies from baiting you. I used to be an easy target for people like that in high school and college but once I figured out that my reaction only fueled the fire, I learned ways to deflect them.

My grandmother can be like that a lot. While she calls herself a committed liberal and supports inclusive laws, she has some real prejudices underneath that shell that she often doesn't seem to hide. I was shocked, for example, when she condemned interracial marriage saying that, "it never works out" and that she wants me to marry, "within my class and race".

She also holds profoundly bigoted views towards gay people despite supporting gay marriage and having a large number of gay friends. When I asked her once why she hadn't invited our family to join her very liberal episcopalian church, she responded (more than half seriously), that it was to protect her grandchildren from the gays at her church and their "obviously" pedophilic tendencies. I probably have never been so offended. She also seems to have this idea stuck in her head that to be gay is a lonely life to be pitied.