Chat Wednesday at noon

Pesto is the best, and especially with the olive oil you get freshly pressed in Italy, it's a whole other experience.

Hello,
I recently stayed at a friend's house. I clogged the toilet on the 2nd flush (toilet paper only.) I immediately turned the wall valve to prevent overflow. I looked around the obvious places for a plunger, but there was none. Since my friends were not home before I had to leave, and I was uncomfortable looking anywhere other than an obvious place for a plunger, I had little choice but to leave it be. I sent an apologetic text which included the suggestion: plunge the bowl and turn the wall valve. My friends received the text, and we had a laugh. A few days later, they told me that they hired a plumber to come over and turn the wall valve. They joked about not being very good with plumbing, and I responded politely again. My question: Should I offer to reimburse them for the cost of the plumber?

I'm having trouble understanding why Sarah B. is uncomfortable discussing money when it's her friends just trying to tell her they're barely getting by and can't afford extras. If they're not uncomfortable telling you that they can't afford a certain activity, why are you uncomfortable hearing that? They're your friends, if they can't be honest with you or vent to you about their money troubles, then maybe you're not really interested in being their friend at all. No one like a fair-weather friend, one who only wants smiles and good times and then goes MIA when things get tough. If they've told you several times they can't afford a beer or a movie, then suggest free activites. Have a potluck at your place, or go on picnics. Don't keep inviting them to activities you know they're going to turn down because they're trying to save money. By doing so, you're creating the awkward situation for them, not the other way around.
My husband and I don't go out for even "one four dollar beer" unless it's a special occasion, like someone's birthday. It's a good way to save money, we're in our mid-twenties and saving to buy a condo.

Just weighing in on the chat debate. I prefer this one to the LL chat, as I usually read the transcripts after the fact. On the LL one, there are so many comments that I feel like a million people are having a million conversations at once, whereas this one is much easier to follow. I guess to each his/her own, right? :)

I have a comment for SarahB on the chat regarding her financially-challenged friends - it struck me that perhaps there is a little passive aggressive stuff gonig on here. The constant whining about finances could actually be a subconscious (benefit of the doubt here, I'm hoping it's subconscious!) attempt to play on sympathy so that the Bs are always the ones doing the inviting and the cooking. I would call them on it in a loving and supportive way - e.g., "we understand that times are tough so we will follow your lead in our get-togethers and let you decide what we should do together." That way you kill two birds with one stone - you allow them to save face if they are actually sincere but you also put the ball squarely in their court if they are not (being sincere).

And Mike Q - I wouldn't offer to pay for the plumber per se, but maybe drop a nice gift cert. to a restaurant in the mail with a note about how sorry you are if you inadvertently damaged their toilet. That's what friends do.

Hi, Robin. I had one of the same reactions to Gods Guns and Steel as a chatter -- much too long and repetitive. Similar vein, different topic is: The Great Influenza: The Epic Story of the Deadliest Plague In History (http://www.amazon.com/Great-Influenza-Deadliest-Plague-History/dp/0670894737). Terrific storytelling of rise of public health at the same time as this horrible virus all mixed together with WWI. Truly, an excellent read on the topic.

I really enjoyed Oryx and Crake, but it is a slow starter. Stick it out.

And for the stepmom -- you have been in a stepmother position since you were introduced to your now-stepdaughter. It sounds as if you and the child have a good relationship, which is awesome. If stepmom makes you uncomfortable, which it really needn't, maybe you can consider being her "bonus mom." Which you are -- and definitely a bonus if her bio-mom is only allowed supervised visits. I would also really encourage you to find other stepmoms to communicate with -- you are going to face family complications completely unlike anyone who is in an intact family, even in the best of situations, and it will benefit you (and your husband) greatly if you have other women in your shoes to kvetch with. It takes a lot of pressure off him AND off you. BTDT, may have burned the t-shirt. Good luck!

I think SarahB is being somewhat insensitive. I have been in the position of the friends, when i was extremely broke, and it was very difficult when friends of ours, who knew this, would keep inviting us to do things that cost money. a $4 beer was seriously like our entire "going out" budget for two months. When you are not in a financially strapped situation, you don't get that--and your attitude of "sheesh, it's not that much at all" probably makes things worse. It probably feels to them like, they are kosher-keeping Jews, and you keep inviting them out for "a little bit of bacon." Then you get upset when they keep "bringing up religion." They can't do bacon. At all. Stop bringing up bacon. I echo: do free things, and don't take it so personally. They're having a hard time! Let them talk about it!

SarahB, you come across as condescending, starting from your parenthetical 'and I imagine, poor financial management'. $8 for beer is $8 that could be used to buy a week's worth of lunchmeat and bread. Why not say "Hey, we'd love to get together, why don't you suggest the activity this time?" Then it's up to them to suggest something they are comfortable with, and you can all enjoy the activity.

It is not necessarily poor financial management to not want to spend money on food and drink at a bar. Even cheaper food and drink is still expensive. My husband would cringe at the idea of four bucks for a simple beer.

We have a budget and we stick to it. Our budget does not include drinking at bars. We all decide how we want to spend out money. SarahB and her friends do not want to spend it in the same way. People also can be living paycheck to paycheck without being irresponsible with money. There are a lot of issues here, but I think trying to be sympathetic and understand that their financial concerns and priorities are simply different, and learning to respect that difference, is an important step for SarahB. Instead of suggesting cheap (to her) activities, I'll reiterate others -- try free instead.

Well, I'm broke right now. We are in a situation where it's difficult for us to cover our living expenses (whether that's poor financial management on our part is absolutely none of friends' business, and it's incredibly patronizing and judgmental to assume so). We're doing everything we can to increase our income and reduce our expenses, but in the meantime, I agonize over every dollar we spend. If you can't empathize with that, SarahB, I envy you the life you've led that has never put you in this situation - but I really could do without you in my life at the moment. So I think you should give up on your friends; you'll be doing them a huge favor. I wish them well and hope they can find some more supportive friends to enjoy a walk in the park with.

whats going on here? have there been no posts since last week? did I miss a vaca memo? i miss this blog!

Robin says: Well, I'm glad you missed it enough to delurk! I don't think I've heard from you before. And yes, I am on vacation--and I mistakenly put the date of my "Gone to Italy" post as the day I would get BACK, not the day I left. Because that is how much I needed a vacation! Regular posting to resume November 2; in the meantime, check out robinabrahams.com!

We miss you, Robin! Hope you are enjoying a lot of pesto.

In response to readers...I promise we aren’t being insufferable. One reader wisely pointed out that there seemed to be some “between the lines” activity. To clear the air: I, myself, was unemployed earlier this year. No savings, no income. I know what that feels like and we certainly empathize with our friends’ challenges. We aren’t rich, patronizing people—we make enough to drive an 11 year old car, live in a small apartment, pay student loans, and maybe save a little for a house someday. But I also know that even when I was looking for work and counting pennies, I made seeing my friends a priority, suggesting free activities like hikes and festivals. I tried to keep our friendships equitable, even though financially I had little to offer.

I just don’t think that is the case with our friends, who by the way, work full time, earn a respectable amount, but spend an awful lot on clothes, electronics, cars, and so on. They don’t suggest any activities, invite us over to watch movies, etc. We invite them (or they invite themselves) over for dinner at least once a week! I don’t mind it—I love these friends and spending time with them. But when they arrive, they talk about the dinner dates or movies they’ve gone out to see, or big cross country trips they are planning. How are we supposed to feel? Add that to our existing sensitivity to talking about money on a casual basis, and we are plain old confused.

The real question is this: we feel as though these friends are taking advantage of us. Why go out when the Bs will give us dinner and drinks for free? We would like to resolve the problem, because their frendship means a lot to us. But we are too afraid of coming across as insensitive and rude. Which is a huge risk, as all of you have demonstrated!