In Response to Re: "Give me convenience or give me death!!!":


No apology necessary whatsoever, my friend. 
I just enjoy the music discussions so much, and I do enjoy the purity we've enjoyed in this forum, even on days when it's a little quiet around here.  
But I also think discussing pop culture, that perhaps includes but doesn't necessarily exclusively revolve around music, is a great idea.   I'd still rather discuss anything here in this forum with so many of the great people who post here, than anywhere else, b/c for me, it's always the people I'm around that make me happy.

So Zilla, in the meantime, I saw this cartoon and thought you'd get a kick out of it.  

http://zippythepinhead.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ZTP&Product_Code=29-Jan-11&Category_Code=

Then like me, you are part of the lost generation (1957 - 1961).

That's my g-g-g-g-generation too. I don't know about you, but I never liked the 70's when it was happening. And it looks just as bad in retrospect too. I think I understand what you mean about being the lost generation.

I'm the same now as I was growing up. I love the variety, from simple, escapist fair to challenging fair where you'll learn something.

In Response to Re: "Give me convenience or give me death!!!":


I was born in 1956 and my wife was born in 1957.  I'm going to play devil's advocate (no pun intended devildavid) on this one.  Because I don't really understand why the 1957-1961 would be any more 'lost' than any other generation in recent history.  To me it sounds like a way of romanticizing things. 

I thought the "lost generation" referred to people who fought in WW1.  Am I mistaken?  I'm no history buff so it's very possible.

I didn't want to sound like a smart alec, but yes, it's the WWI generation.

And also, 4 years does not a generation make.

The classic baby boom generation is from 1946 - 1964.   Because of the age span, many baby boomers have lived different experiences.   But like it or not, they are all considered part of the post WWII baby boom generation.  

Most people born in the early sixties relate more to Gen X.  

You win some, you lose some, jessey. 
Why do you keep saying you're from a lost generation?  I honestly don't get that.   

I don't feel my generation was lost.... it just made me feel like I was the spokesman for a generation that had nothing to say

I will try and explain - actually it is 5 years. And it probably should be 6 as Hfx is probably right, so I will move it -  1956-1961.

Those born in this time saw things maybe a little differently than those who came a few years before and a few years after. For some of us, one of our first childhood memory's might be the Kennedy assassination. Gee Mom, why is that little kid saluting? 3 months later, the Beatles appeared on Ed Sullivan. Wow, that doesn't sound like the music daddy plays. As many in the few years preceding us also experienced, we grew up with those drills in school where the fire alarm went off and we had to jump under our little wooden desks to save ourselves from the fire bomb the Russians had just sent at us. Why anyone thought hiding under kindling would be good during a N-attack is beyond me. Who thought of that? And why was I scared of a people and country that were half way around the world. By the way, why do they hate us Mommy? We watched without really understanding the film footage of the civil rights marches on Selma and DC. Hey dad, why are they beating up that black man? By 1968, we saw assassinations of MLK and RFK and we got to experience the Nam body count on the CBS News. Today in Vietnam, 40 American soldiers killed, 100 wounded; 2,000 Viet Cong killed, 10, ooo wounded. Again, who thought this was a good idea? By the time I was 10, I was scared out of my mind and didn't know why. I just knew that there was a lot of death and no one could explain why. By the way, how did we lose that war anyway considering we were killing the enemy at a rate of 30 - 1? At least that is what CBS was reporting.  Mama, what is propaganda?

Like me, maybe you had older brothers and sisters who were hippies and took part in peace marches. As the 70's rolled around, we started figuring things out. I know I was scared that I was going to be drafted and I had just turned 12. And as things progressed in the early 70's and I was getting closer to that age, I really started worrying. The only time my father ever hit me was when I was 14 and told him that if the war kept going on, I would head to Canada on my 17th b-day. Probably not a good idea to tell that to a WW II vet. Hey Daddy, why did the soldiers kill those students at Kent State? My point being is that our education in human frailty was serious sh*t. Too many of my sisters friends came home from Nam in a box. Again, too young to completely grasp the situation, but old enough to know that this was not cool. Hey Mommy, why is Mrs. Jones crying?

Around that same time, we really started identifying with the musicians of our generation. The Beatles had already broken up and by the time I turned 15 in 1973, I and many others were fixated on bands where they either dressed like really strange chicks (Jagger, Bowie, NY Dolls, Mercury, etc.) or were playing some seriously loud music (Who, Purple, Sabbath, Zep, etc.). The peace, love and harmony music of the 60's had become a bit more aggressive. Then there were the fads. Got my first earring in 1972 and gave my mother a minor stroke. And I won't even tell you what my father thought about his son with earrings, made-up hair, 7 inch high heeled platform boots and make-up in 1974. But the girls did like it   Actually, I hid the earrings until he moved to Florida. Hey Dad, why do those men look like women? And why do I like it?

And we started understanding politics - Thanks Nixon for teaching me about hypocrisy and corruption. Then we hit the mid 70's and Ford/Carter. Big cities like NY were falling apart at the seams. Ford told NYC and other big cities in dire fiscal straits to drop dead and that was after he pardoned Tricky Dick. Thanks again for another lesson in hypocrisy. Hey Daddy, why isn't Nixon going to jail for breaking the law? The economy was in the sh*tter with double digit interest, inflation and unemployment rates. No one thought that could happen. And how could we forget how so many of the remaining hippies were calling our returning soldiers baby killers. Yeah, the USA handled our returning Vets with dignity. Nice job everyone for teaching me about disrespect for our hero's. Oh, by the way, Vet's - no work for you, no real medical assistance especially for your emotional luggage and sorry about that heroin addiction.

Then there were the drugs. We weren't just smoking pot and tripping every now and then. Our drugs were serious - crystal speed, THC, cocaine, heroin could be had by anyone now. We were living dangerously. Wasn't really grasping why I was attending funerals for kids my age. Probably because I was wasted out of my mind. Mommy, why is Vinnie not in school anymore?


And we started socializing - by 76-77, you were either wearing three piece polyester suits or ripped jeans and leather jackets. Disco vs Punk! I was torn for a brief minute because the girls looked better going into the discos than the girls going into CBGB's. Talk about being aggressive.  Summer of 77 (Bronx is Burning). Insane blackout and the Son of Sam. FYI - having lost two friends to that freak and having another wounded, there was more than one shooter. Berkowitz only did the Bronx shootings. Case is still open in Queens and Brooklyn. But the Mayor was running for election and he wanted that case solved and closed. Thanks Abe for letting the whole truth not be uncovered. Hey daddy, why did that man kill Valentia and Alexander? By this time, my father had been passed over on his job because of Affirmative Action which pizzed him off to high hell and he said enough and split to Florida with my Mom. I stayed. Hey Mom - why are you leaving me here by myself?

Then the Iranian hostage situation. Hello Islam world - nice to meet you. And welcome to the 80's and Uncle Ronnie.

In talking with people from this era, generation, whatever you want to call it; we received an education into the world that those who came a few years before us or a few years after us didn't quite get. We were spared having to walk through the jungle and risk our lives, but we weren't spared the fear. We didn't get to experience the summer of love of 67. We got to experience the despair of the summer of 77. Although we knew and were raised on the music of Lennon and Dylan, we grew up and identified with Ozzy, Bonham, Moon, etc. Insanity instead of thought provoking experiences.

How the hell did we survive the 70's?

Maybe this is just me and is more of a city experience, but from so many conversations, I have found out that I am not the only one who felt lost. Hence, the lost generation. Or perhaps I am really all screwed up in some ways.
Hey Mommy, why am I all lost?

Can you see the real me, can ya, can ya?

I am happy to say that as I near my 53rd b-day, I am no longer lost. But I am still slightly confused and smile an awful lot.

In Response to Re: "Give me convenience or give me death!!!":


Well jessey you explained yourself very well and with a lot of passion there.  It makes me realize how much of your life experience can be shaped by where you live and how fortunate I was in that regard.  Living in Halifax, Canada, was relatively peaceful and violence-free.  I didn't know anybody who got killed in Vietnam or who got gunned down in my city.  I was exposed to all the events you mentioned but it was from much more of a safe distance.  I certainly knew what it was like to get very down about the state of the world and life in general.  But all in all I'd say I definitely had an easier ride than you did.

Maybe Hfx, but it is not just the personal experiences. It is the strange way our generation was introduced to the society in which we really live. Nam was the first war that was really carried in detail by the news agencies. There was no romanticizing this war. And we got to learn about life like this. I am sure the recession of the 70's hit Halifax.

I remember the CBS News - it went something like this.

"And today in Vietnam, America suffered 40 deaths and 100 wounded, North Vietnam suffered 20,000 dead and 50,000 wounded. Really? Then how did we lose the war? Propoganda was in full force.

I know we all experienced many similar things growing up, and it really was a screwed up time. 70 - 80 was a horror show. And don't even get me started on the decadence of the 80's.

All I can add to this is:

wow!

jessey , you should write a book. That was a fr**kin' awesome post.

You managed to work, Nixon, Son of Sam, CBS News, Ozzie, Iran,CBGB's , Kennedy, Vietnam and the bomb all into one post.

I never considered myself "lost" , although I can remember being scared in my parents suburban home in 1968 (the race riots terrified me), I was soon confronted with something worse when my mother became ill and died in 1970. After that I became immersed in a passion for drawing. I really was thinking I could be an artist. I love the works of Salvador Dali and over the years have developed my own style and I had a couple of political cartoons published in the Providence Journal about 20 years ago. I have since abandoned this as it takes alot of time to create cartoons that are up to my standard, and honestly the money they pay is barely enough to cover the cost.

I always felt that artwork, reading and so many of the quiet time spent alone in my youth has made me reflective and pensive. I never enjoyed a movie so much as when I went to see "Raiders of the Lost Ark" by myself. But I have been many things, but "lost" is a term I would not use. Confused a little, frustrated, feeling like a misfit at times...but I always was able to "find" myself by picking up a pencil and putting it to a blank piece of paper. It was the therapy that has saved me from many a traumatic time.

In Response to Re: "Give me convenience or give me death!!!":


please do!

I wish I could draw.

Zilla - I guess I use the term lost in a very loose sense. You describe the feeling very well. And I am sorry for the loss of your Mom at such a young age. Mine is still with us (92 - God Bless Her). There is no doubt in my mind, my sisters, cousins and most of my friends that the only reason I am here to make friends with you all is because of her love and support. I can honestly say that I should have been dead. That is why I smile so much now - I figure I am living on borrowed time so I might as well make the most of it.

Mom and Rock and Roll saved me.

FYI - I started this book 15 years ago and just seem to have a hard time getting past certain points. One day I will finish it. This post was very cathartic for me. I have written it a couple of times in the last two days here and then would delete it 5 minutes later here. My canceled thread the other day was this very same subject, but I didn't want my new friends here to think that I had more than just one screw loose.

And I have you to thank you. Your two latest threads pulled it out of me. I guess that is why you truly are my buddy even if we never met.

As for your reference to seeing Raiders by yourself and it being great. I did that myself once. I went to see Quadrophenia alone - it was one of those experiences that altered much of what I thought I was about. Both the movie and being alone.

a couple really wise fellers around here...

jessey - i have some funny imagery in my head right now of you in heels and makeup.

as for drugs and me, i stick to what grows in the ground. and fermentation.

i really enjoyed reading your post jessey, and dont be afraid to scare us all off. all of us are a little off. that's why we're all here, i think.

When you are 14, 15 Y.O. and you see bands like Bowie and the Spiders, NY Dolls, KISS, Queen, T-Rex, Mott, Sweet and so many others, you gravitate towards their style. I admit I was more Spiders than NY Dolls, but you get my drift.

Jess, beautiful post. I didn't even go through the same stuff that you did but I always felt kind of aimless. Our generation witnessed much pain but had no wars or causes to fight for. Drugs, rather than expanding our minds, became a way to party, feel good, and be irresponsible, to the point where some didn't care if they lived through it. Politics made us cynical about those who ruled our country. We started losing faith in our fellow man, so it weakened our faith in ourselves.

I'm glad you came through it to express your feelings so passionately.

BTW, I saw Airplane! alone and I couldn't stop laughing. Comedy has always been cathartic for me. I've also attended a couple of blues shows by myself and those were just as much of a great emotional release. I'll always remember how John Lee H00ker made me jump out of my seat and start boogieing to his music.

In Response to Re: "Give me convenience or give me death!!!":
  I liked the remake of True Grit (still in theaters?) - engaging, well-written, witty yet not comedic, per se, well-acted, and a powerful message that made me think and, especially, to appreciate a "lifetime" friend of mine.  No violence, sex, or language was necessary to acheive any of that.  
Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]

In Response to Re: "Give me convenience or give me death!!!":
[QUOTE]I will try and explain - actually it is 5 years. And it probably should be 6 as Hfx is probably right, so I will move it -  1956-1961. Those born in this time saw things maybe a little differently than those who came a few years before and a few years after. 

I'm not entirely sure how the idea of "convenience" morphed into this treatise on arbitrary labelling. By and large, people don't like to be put in categories. I was faintly amused to see an entire thread dedicated to eschewing the "Gen X" label. I've been told, at varying times that I'm a "boomer" and that I'm also part of something called the "me" generation (and I've been called a lot of other nasty things that I won't mention). Ultimately, I think we all rebel against being considered cogs in some larger societal wheel. A certain segment of the population feels more secure by pigeonholing all the other segments and that's cool. It doesn't really mean anything. A rose, by any other name . . .   and all that. Dion and the Belmonts were hip and happening when I was born, but by the time I became anything you could call socially aware, my older sister -- who was the closest thing I knew to a hippie -- was feeding me Jefferson Airplane and The Who.

When I think back on my formative years, I guess I'm more a product of the '70s than the '60s. By the time Alex P. Keaton came around, my ideals had already been formed by the war and the grim economic reality of the previous decade. I don't remember anyone ever calling us "lost," but the truth is that Vietnam wasn't really our cause, and we were a little too early to join Reagan's corporate raiders.

I'll tell you the weirdest thing I remember about my "generation."

Everybody had a fondue set . . .   but I never saw anybody actually eat fondue.

In Response to Re: "Give me convenience or give me death!!!":


And a woc.

One thing jessey's post about his generation mentioned was the fear of the bomb.  I can recall when I was a kid, somewhere in the early to mid-60's, they used to do test runs with the air raid siren at a military training base not far from my house.  That thing scared the bejeebers out of me.  I used to lie awake some nights worrying about the bomb.  I'd hear a plane approaching overhead and wonder if that was going to be the one that did us in.

There's a pretty incredible movie about the bomb called Atomic Cafe.   

I remember wondering about the gorillas they were using in warfare.

In Response to Re: "Give me convenience or give me death!!!":


whaaaat?

I was pretty little in the 70s and heard the term, "guerrilla warfare" on the news.  Figured it was the only thing I knew about - gorillas fighting.  It didn't really make a ton of sense in the context they were talking about, but what did I know at 3 or 4 years old?