Analyze this equation: Taylor Swift=Bob Dylan

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Analyze this equation: Taylor Swift=Bob Dylan

    In response to devildavid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think is important to give proper weight to assessing artistic merit without being too swayed by imagery or popular opinion.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with this.  However, not being swayed by popular opinion doesn't mean you can't be influenced by the opinions of other music fans and critics that you already know and respect.  They may have certain insights that you don't have.  It's not always necessary for us to make critical determinations all on our own when other people have done some of the intellectual heavy lifting for us.

    A point I raised earlier was the distinction between musical merit and intellectual merit.  Intellectual merit in particular can require some insight.  For example another fan or critic might point out a clever metaphor in a song's lyrics that you didn't realize was there.  Once you know it's there you appreciate it too.  

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Analyze this equation: Taylor Swift=Bob Dylan

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to devildavid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think is important to give proper weight to assessing artistic merit without being too swayed by imagery or popular opinion.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with this.  However, not being swayed by popular opinion doesn't mean you can't be influenced by the opinions of other music fans and critics that you already know and respect.  They may have certain insights that you don't have.  It's not always necessary for us to make critical determinations all on our own when other people have done some of the intellectual heavy lifting for us.

    A point I raised earlier was the distinction between musical merit and intellectual merit.  Intellectual merit in particular can require some insight.  For example another fan or critic might point out a clever metaphor in a song's lyrics that you didn't realize was there.  Once you know it's there you appreciate it too.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, fans and critics can provide valid input but I have a personal caveat: how balanced is their viewpoint? Are they balanced between fandom and some distancing needed for critical assessment? If they present some views that may be critical and are not too gushing with praise I find that approach more convincing than going to either extreme. But I still believe the final analysis is up to each individual listener armed with as much listening and information as possible. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Analyze this equation: Taylor Swift=Bob Dylan

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    My poor misunderstood thread. This is not about the specific comparison of Bob Dylan to Taylor Swift. It is about how we judge, label, and categorize musical artists using some sort of criteria but no one seems to know what the criteria are. I think the very popularity of artists and the reactiosn of their fans muddies the waters.

    Those who see Dylan in a category beyond comparison yet say everthing is basd on opinion want to have their cake and eat it too. If we reduce everything to mere opinion, it becomes a numbers game. How many people like artist X and how many people's opinion is that artist X is a game changing philospher poet superst

    ar and whatever other superlatives you want to add. It is one thing to like or dislike an artist and entirely another to deem them great or garbage.

    If I say I don't like Bob Dylan's music there is nothing to discuss. That's merely my personal taste. It makes no judgement on the quality of his music.

    If I say Bob Dylan's music is garbage that is another matter. Now I am saying that there is something qualitatively lacking with his music.

    The question for me is: can every statement of opinion be reduced to like/dislike? And if so, what really is the point of my opinion or opinion in general?

    So ultimately my approach has failed. I got your attention, but the discussion got hung up on the specifics instead of the general point I was really hoping to make. I guess some buttons are too hot to push.

     

    This is a copout, I'm sorry to say.  

    You're attributing the "failure" of your approach to the shortcomings of the responses, apparently.  "Hoping to make a general point" --- AND what exactly was your point?    That opinions cannot be teased out of likes and dislikes?  

    I find that preposterous after what has been said in this thread.  You seem to have gotten nothing out of the responses, which is a shame.  

    You waited until the responses came in, decided what "counted" and what should be "discounted" (unilaterally), and your final "analysis" is that your thread was "misunderstood" based on responses that were too "specific" to your question.    Zilla spoke out (and wasn't the least bit unkind about Taylor Swift) re: the trend of making comparisons, and you never even responded to him.   No offense, but you are either doing some heavy back-pedaling now, weren't transparent enough and/or simply had too much of an agenda without tasking us correctly in the first place.    And TBH, I had a problem with the "fact" that you know little about Taylor Swift yourself, and this became a one-sided issue re: Bob Dylan, and now, circled back around to the issue of opinions.     You win some, you lose some. 

    ETA: I sat on this post this afternoon -- and didn't see the updated post from mid-afternoon.  I just hit the send button finally.  :)

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Analyze this equation: Taylor Swift=Bob Dylan

    Dylan is an interesting case for me personally because he's not one of my favorites and never has been.  There are other artists that I don't enjoy nearly as much as some people do, including the Stones and Neil Young.  But I've always chalked it up to my own personal tastes and biases and I've always accepted that they were great artists regardless of my feelings.    

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Analyze this equation: Taylor Swift=Bob Dylan

    In response to yogafriend's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to devildavid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My poor misunderstood thread. This is not about the specific comparison of Bob Dylan to Taylor Swift. It is about how we judge, label, and categorize musical artists using some sort of criteria but no one seems to know what the criteria are. I think the very popularity of artists and the reactiosn of their fans muddies the waters.

    Those who see Dylan in a category beyond comparison yet say everthing is basd on opinion want to have their cake and eat it too. If we reduce everything to mere opinion, it becomes a numbers game. How many people like artist X and how many people's opinion is that artist X is a game changing philospher poet superst

    ar and whatever other superlatives you want to add. It is one thing to like or dislike an artist and entirely another to deem them great or garbage.

    If I say I don't like Bob Dylan's music there is nothing to discuss. That's merely my personal taste. It makes no judgement on the quality of his music.

    If I say Bob Dylan's music is garbage that is another matter. Now I am saying that there is something qualitatively lacking with his music.

    The question for me is: can every statement of opinion be reduced to like/dislike? And if so, what really is the point of my opinion or opinion in general?

    So ultimately my approach has failed. I got your attention, but the discussion got hung up on the specifics instead of the general point I was really hoping to make. I guess some buttons are too hot to push.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    This is a copout, I'm sorry to say.  

    You're attributing the "failure" of your approach to the shortcomings of the responses, apparently.  "Hoping to make a general point" --- AND what exactly was your point?    That opinions cannot be teased out of likes and dislikes?  

    I find that preposterous after what has been said in this thread.  You seem to have gotten nothing out of the responses, which is a shame.  

    You waited until the responses came in, decided what "counted" and what should be "discounted" (unilaterally), and your final "analysis" is that your thread was "misunderstood" based on responses that were too "specific" to your question.    Zilla spoke out (and wasn't the least bit unkind about Taylor Swift) re: the trend of making comparisons, and you never even responded to him.   No offense, but you are either doing some heavy back-pedaling now, weren't transparent enough and/or simply had too much of an agenda without tasking us correctly in the first place.    And TBH, I had a problem with the "fact" that you know little about Taylor Swift yourself, and this became a one-sided issue re: Bob Dylan.     You win some, you lose some. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I did admit my failure. I was unable to attend to this thread properly. In some ways, however, it gave me a chance to address what I intended, if rather awkwardly.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Analyze this equation: Taylor Swift=Bob Dylan

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Dylan is an interesting case for me personally because he's not one of my favorites and never has been.  There are other artists that I don't enjoy nearly as much as some people do, including the Stones and Neil Young.  But I've always chalked it up to my own personal tastes and biases and I've always accepted that they were great artists regardless of my feelings.    

    [/QUOTE]

    I differ a bit from you on this. I tend to question the greatness of some of the "great" artists that I do enjoy. I also passively accept to some extent the consensus evaluation of greatness of certain artists, but this never precludes me from examining or questioning this accepted opinion. I always prefer to understand and internalize the consensus rather than take it as an article of faith.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Analyze this equation: Taylor Swift=Bob Dylan

    In response to devildavid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I did admit my failure. I was unable to attend to this thread properly. In some ways, however, it gave me a chance to address what I intended, if rather awkwardly.

    [/QUOTE]

    You didn't fail, not at all.   The only thing you didn't do was have more "a ha" moments from some of the musings in the thread.   Although, maybe you did in the final analysis.

    Sometimes, when the responses are 'hit or miss' it just means that we all interpret differently, and assume that there's no right or wrong response.   This is why our discussions of rock artists tend to be so good in general; this group has the knowledge level to give those 'off the cuff' discussions heft.   You seem to be able to handle the heat either way, and a little controversy is healthy.   You already know that there are some members here who are going to stand their ground.  :) 

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Analyze this equation: Taylor Swift=Bob Dylan

    Great thread IMO.  I always welcome the chance to get philosophical.  BTW, props to WDYWN for his solid input here. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Analyze this equation: Taylor Swift=Bob Dylan

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Great thread IMO.  I always welcome the chance to get philosophical.  BTW, props to WDYWN for his solid input here. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks, Hfx. I do have a strong bent toward philosophical discussion as well, which may not be everyone's cup of tea.

    Should I turn the lights off on this one now?

     
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