Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?

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    Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?

    Hey all, I'm just trying to find out what my fellow music enthusiasts think about where rock and roll came from. In my mind there are three logical candidates. Blues, Swing and Bluegrass. Blues is obvious. Muddy Waters discovered Chuck Berry and brought him to Leonard Chess. Also the twelve bar blues has been a staple of rock and roll since Alan Freed invented the term. Swing and Bluegrass are a little less obvious. But Bill Haley and the Comets were really kind of a swing band and swing dancing generated a kind of excitement about music that was rare in America. As far as Bluegrass goes, Bill Monroe played country music in a way it had never been played before. He was fast, loud and exciting. I've recently beeb listening to Chuck again and I would swear in court that some of Chuck's licks were copied note for note from the mandolin of Bill Monroe. Of course there can be little argument that Chuck Berry invented Rock and Roll.
     
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    Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?

    In Response to Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?:
    [QUOTE]Hey all, I'm just trying to find out what my fellow music enthusiasts think about where rock and roll came from. In my mind there are three logical candidates. Blues, Swing and Bluegrass. Blues is obvious. Muddy Waters discovered Chuck Berry and brought him to Leonard Chess. Also the twelve bar blues has been a staple of rock and roll since Alan Freed invented the term. Swing and Bluegrass are a little less obvious. But Bill Haley and the Comets were really kind of a swing band and swing dancing generated a kind of excitement about music that was rare in America. As far as Bluegrass goes, Bill Monroe played country music in a way it had never been played before. He was fast, loud and exciting. I've recently beeb listening to Chuck again and I would swear in court that some of Chuck's licks were copied note for note from the mandolin of Bill Monroe. Of course there can be little argument that Chuck Berry invented Rock and Roll.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE
         Everybody that you mentioned are nationally prominent musicians.  I read somewhere on the internet that rock and roll actually had its roots back to about 1937 on a regional level. The article was called something like: "The Long History Of Rock And Roll" (30-40 pages).  After a while I couldn't find it anymore and it was replaced by: a shorter version Of Rock And Roll history.  Also, a TV documentory claimed a jazz or blues man back in the 30's maybe, played his music like it was Rock And Roll.  Also, a lot of the Rythm and Blues of the 40's and 50's to me sounds like Rock And Roll.  Further, Fat's Dominoes: "They Call Me The Fat Man" was played on African-American and White radio stations during 1949.  Some music historians (not all) consider this to be the first Rock song played on the radio.  Other historians claim other songs, for example: "Rocket 88" from about the real early 50's.  I don't mean to be contradictory, but I seriously doubt that Chuck Berry invented Rock And Roll.  On the national level though, he was a pioneer.    
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?

    CBGB's

    Country, Bluegrass, Blues.

    CBGB's was one of the most prominent RnR clubs in NYC from the early 70's and stayed strong into the turn of the new century. Sadly it is gone now as is Hilly.

    Nothing left to be said
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?

    Blues.  Rock and Roll came from the blues.  I think Jazz came from the blues as well. 
     
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    Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?

    Les Paul may have some clue...

    I tend to think of it more as a fusion of rockabilly (electrified bluegrass) and the 'jump blues' or 'boogie woogie', while jazz developed separately though within earshot.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

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    In Response to Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?:
    CBGB's Country, Bluegrass, Blues. CBGB's was one of the most prominent RnR clubs in NYC from the early 70's and stayed strong into the turn of the new century. Sadly it is gone now as is Hilly. Nothing left to be said
    Posted by jesseyeric
    You learn something new every day. I think everyone our age has at least heard of CBGBs, but I had no idea that it stood for Country, BlueGrass, Blues.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?

    I have a really good book that traces rock back to it's roots and then follows it trough to the what was then the modern day (90"s). It is a companion book to a series that ran on PBS back in the 90's.

    Here is what I remember, I read the book over ten years ago:

    The rhythm of rock music originates as far back as the 1800's when African slaves brought the native rhythms of tribal music with them ( you can hear African rythyms on songs of all periods...good example is "The Flowers of Romance" by John Lydon's post Sex Pistols group, Public Image Limited). Beyond that, Rock'nRoll is essentially a hybrid form picking up influence from every style , Country, Folk, Bluegrass , Swing, Jazz...most heavily early influence is the Blues. Later in the Prog Rock era Classical music meets Rock with Electric Light Orchestra, Emerson Lake and Palmer , etc.

    50'S Rock'n Roll was essentially a music made for kids to dance to. But the 60's and the Beatles, Stones, Who, Kinks and Dylan pulled Rock away from dance music toward a more sophisticated sound.Early Heavy Metal has been described as "Blues on steroids" , Groups like Marshall Tucker Band, Charlie Daniels Band and the Outlaws gave rock a sound heavily influened by Country music ( with Rockabilly,Gene Vincent, Carl Perkins , Roy Orbison , early Elvis being the link between Rock and Country...Dave Edmunds and the Stray Cats would give Rockabilly a rebirth in the 80's).

    The exact date of the birth of Rock'nRoll is very sketchy and actually impossible to say. Many people say Robert Johnson was the first rock'n roller , others say Bill Haley and the Comets were the first. The best answer is that both were true originators of a cross-over sound (one from Blues to Rock, the other from Country to Rock)...and Elvis was the guy who put it on the map radioplaywise ( is that a word?), while Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry,Jerry Lee Lewis and Little Richard were the more prolific of the rock artists that caused the explosion of rock groups in the 60's and beyond.

    It's kind of complicated and I prefer to call Rock music a combination of everything that came before it. It is a universal language of the common man. Someday alien life forms will study the artifacts of humanity and they will find more answers about us from our music (and other art forms) than they will find from our politics or our religions.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?

    Wow zilla, for a guy who claims to never be serious that was some heavy thought.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?

    In Response to Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?:
    It's kind of complicated and I prefer to call Rock music a combination of everything that came before it. It is a universal language of the common man. Posted by ZILLAGOD


    This pretty much says it all in a nutshell. Rock music has the amazing ability to absorb all other musical forms and meld them into something accessible, meaningful, and perhaps most importantly, entertaining to the common man.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?

    In Response to Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?:
    Wow zilla, for a guy who claims to never be serious that was some heavy thought.
    Posted by carnie


    carnie, I am usually serious when I talk about Rock music. People like us share a passion for these things and often can talk sensibly amongst ourselves.

    On the other hand, sports talk is littered with people who are self-proclaimed know-it-alls, stats wizards and blowhards. I try not to take sports as seriously as most do. It's a game , it's entertainment , but to some people it is life or death. I have never lost my love for music. My love for sports comes and goes, although I still follow the Red Sox quite religiously, I do not take it too seriously. That is why I turn to joking about sports subjects , to try and lighten up the hot-heads and stubborn nit wits who only see a sports world in black and white. I see sports as a form of entertainment that has unfortunately become all about money, where Rock music or any art form cannot fool it's devoted fans. You can't sell me on The Bay City Rollers when I want to hear the Beatles. I can spot a phony a mile away.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?

    In Response to Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?:
    CBGB's Country, Bluegrass, Blues. CBGB's was one of the most prominent RnR clubs in NYC from the early 70's and stayed strong into the turn of the new century. Sadly it is gone now as is Hilly. Nothing left to be said
    Posted by jesseyeric


    Some borrow from Jazz/Folk as well. 

    See: Beggars Banquet, Let It Bleed, Exile on Main Street.

    Definitely consider early Stones to be one of the paradigms of Rock's birth.

    They, of course, also drew on other musicians who perhaps could farily be called the earliest Rock & Roll musicians...  but DAMN did they nail everything together.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?

    In Response to Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass?:
    In Response to Re: Blues, Swing or Bluegrass? : carnie, I am usually serious when I talk about Rock music. People like us share a passion for these things and often can talk sensibly amongst ourselves. On the other hand, sports talk is littered with people who are self-proclaimed know-it-alls, stats wizards and blowhards. I try not to take sports as seriously as most do. It's a game , it's entertainment , but to some people it is life or death. I have never lost my love for music. My love for sports comes and goes, although I still follow the Red Sox quite religiously, I do not take it too seriously. That is why I turn to joking about sports subjects , to try and lighten up the hot-heads and stubborn nit wits who only see a sports world in black and white. I see sports as a form of entertainment that has unfortunately become all about money, where Rock music or any art form cannot fool it's devoted fans. You can't sell me on The Bay City Rollers when I want to hear the Beatles. I can spot a phony a mile away.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD
    Point taken. I get a little tired of some of the blowhards on the Red Sox board too.
     
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