Founders of heavy metal

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    Re: Founders of heavy metal

    In Response to Re: Founders of heavy metal:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Founders of heavy metal : Jeff Beck is the most underrated god in the metal pantheon isn't he? He was also a huge influence in jazz. Larry Carlton shows a strong Jeff Beck influence imo.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    Really? Carlton was influenced by Beck? As a guitar player for going on 30 years of playing and focusing on jazz and jazz-rock fusion, I have to ask why you would say this. Being a huge fan of both players, and knowing their music intimately, the only thing I see in common is that they both play guitar. Their styles are almost orthogonal. Sure, Carlton has some blues influence (B.B King), but is most strongly influenced by jazz heavyweights like Joe Pass, Herb Ellis, Barney Kessel, Miles Davis, and John Coltrane. Having learned most of Blow by Blow and Wired, and then Carlton's studio work with Steely Dan and his solo stuff like 335, there is little, if any, similarity IMO. Their phrasing, tone, and overall approach is totally different. I've never even heard Beck play an acoustic guitar, while Carlton has done a ton of it. And while jazz clearly influenced Beck in the records mentioned above, how did Beck influence jazz? Carlton is largely associated with smooth jazz, and you could never say that about Beck.

    I don't know much about the founders of metal, but if you can provide some evidence of this, I'm all ears (and eyes).
     
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    Re: Founders of heavy metal

    In Response to Re: Founders of heavy metal:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Founders of heavy metal : You make a lot of good points. However I really think twin guitar is a thing that most people associate with metal. You may not need to do it to achieve a metal sound, but many major bands from the 80s on that I can think of were doing some kind of twin guitar sound.   Iron Maiden definitely didn't invent it. But in my mind they perfected the technique. I guess I am thinking of the foundational era being from 70 to 1985, which is why I would include them. Metal was pretty well develpoed by that date. But up to it, there were still a lot of rock elements in it.
    Posted by ForumCleaner[/QUOTE]

    Two words: Allman Brothers

    Years before these bands were doing it, Duane Allman and Dickey Betts, and their eventual replacements have done it masterfully. Skynyrd and Steely Dan as well. My only point is that I question whether the twin guitar thing is synonymous with metal.
     
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    Re: Founders of heavy metal

    In Response to Re: Founders of heavy metal:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Founders of heavy metal : Two words: Allman Brothers Years before these bands were doing it, Duane Allman and Dickey Betts, and their eventual replacements have done it masterfully. Skynyrd and Steely Dan as well. My only point is that I question whether the twin guitar thing is synonymous with metal.
    Posted by softwareDevMusician[/QUOTE]
    It's not. Dickey Betts and Duane Allman were surely masters of the art form, but I think the whole concept owes to bluegrass music. Bobby Hicks and Jack Youngblood pioneered the concept in 1954 on the fiddle with Bill Monroe. But that's a country perspective which I realize isn't a popular viewpoint these days.
     
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    Re: Founders of heavy metal

    In Response to Re: Founders of heavy metal:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Founders of heavy metal : It's not. Dickey Betts and Duane Allman were surely masters of the art form, but I think the whole concept owes to bluegrass music. Bobby Hicks and Jack Youngblood pioneered the concept in 1954 on the fiddle with Bill Monroe. But that's a country perspective which I realize isn't a popular viewpoint these days.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    I guess you beat me to it, I should have read your post about the twin guitar sound before posting my reply. Good to know about Monroe and bluegrass; I was wondering about where it originated.
     
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    Re: Founders of heavy metal

    I know the Ventures were basically Lead and Rythm guitars, but I am pretty sure they did some dualing licks back in the day.

     
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    Re: Founders of heavy metal

    In Response to Re: Founders of heavy metal:
    [QUOTE]I know the Ventures were basically Lead and Rythm guitars, but I am pretty sure they did some dualing licks back in the day.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    Good point, I would say the Surf instrumental groups , Dick Dale, Ventures , Challengers had lots of influence on what would become Heavy Metal.

    Many Metal songs have long instrumental passages, both styles depend heavily on guitar and drums with minimal or no keyboards added.
     
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    Re: Founders of heavy metal

    I have to add Blue Cheer

    Bay-area power trio and devotees of acid (hence the name) and sludgy, heavy blues-rock which were also, I believe, the inspiration for the first coining of the phrase "heavy metal" in the rock press (not 100% on that).  Their noteworthy album, Vincebus Eruptum, came out in 1968, and they scored a hit with a cover of "Summertime Blues".

    They pre-dated Vanilla Fudge and the MC5; by far the heaviest rock on record at that time.  This is the definition of proto-metal.
     
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    Re: Founders of heavy metal

    In Response to Re: Founders of heavy metal:
    [QUOTE]I have to add Blue Cheer Bay-area power trio and devotees of acid (hence the name) and sludgy, heavy blues-rock which were also, I believe, the inspiration for the first coining of the phrase "heavy metal" in the rock press (not 100% on that).  Their noteworthy album, Vincebus Eruptum , came out in 1968, and they scored a hit with a cover of "Summertime Blues". They pre-dated Vanilla Fudge and the MC5; by far the heaviest rock on record at that time.  This is the definition of proto-metal.
    Posted by Mattyhorn[/QUOTE]

    I would agree completely with that.
     
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    Re: Founders of heavy metal

    Blue Cheer - very good Matty.
     

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