Gene Simmons: "Rappers don't belong in the R&R Hall of Fame"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Gene Simmons: "Rappers don't belong in the R&R Hall of Fame"

    You might not ever agree with Gene Simmons on much of anything, but I could not help but laugh over his statement re: the Rock Hall.   This is the annual 'conversation' even though we always come to the same conclusions re: we care?   If Sonics sees this ... :D

    In any event, you might find Simmons' thoughts amusing.  NOTE: They're not playing at the induction ceremony.

    "Kiss star Gene Simmons has taken aim at Rock & Roll Hall of Fame bosses for inducting rappers into their Ohio museum. 

    The bass player and his band will be added to the Hall of Fame in April after a series of near misses in recent years, but the rockers aren't exactly thrilled about the honor.

    Simmons and bandmate Paul Stanley feel they should have been inducted years ago - and they're annoyed that rap acts like Run-DMC, Grandmaster Flash and Public Enemy got in before them.

    Speaking to Radio.com, Simmons says, "A long time ago it was diluted. It's really backroom politics... A few people decide what's in and what's not. And the masses just scratch their heads. You've got Grandmaster Flash in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame? Run-DMC in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame? You're killing me! That doesn't mean those aren't good artists. But they don't play guitar. They sample and they talk. Not even sing!

    "If you asked Madonna, 'What kind of artist are you?' do you think she would say, 'Oh, rock!' So what they hell are they doing in the Hall of Fame?They can run their organization any way they'd like, but it ain't rock! It just isn't! If you don't play guitar and you don't write your own songs, you don't belong there."

    Earlier this month, singer Stanley revealed KISS would not be performing at the induction ceremony.

    http://t.entertainment.msn.com/gene-simmons-rappers-dont-belong-in-the-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame?toc=music

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    I of course disagree with Mr. Simmons. But you know how I feel about defining genres of music. It's impossible and pretty much not important to me. It can go either way. You can nitpick about genres to the point of absurdity, or you can go with a general umbrella over a wide and divergent spectrum. I prefer the umbrella approach, if any at all.

    As for rap, what umbrella does it really belong under? Who draws the line based on what? How about Doo-Wop? In the 50's, rock 'n' roll included many styles, including Doo-Wop. Elvis Presley, Little Richard, Fats Domino, Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, etc. had similarities and differences. They played fast and loud and slow and sweet. They didn't worry about how they were defined. They crossed and obliterated musical barriers as naturally as they breathed. Once rock 'n' roll became "serious art" more people seemed to care about defining it and categorizing it. I'd rather dance.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DBoWMPQzkA

    Rock-roll-rock-roll

    You take some music, music
    Sweet flowin' music
    Some movin' and groovin'
    Rock and roll will stand

    Take some heart beats drum beats
    Finger poppin' and stompin' feet
    Little dances that look so neat
    You see why it will stand

    Some folks don't understand it
    That's why they don't demand it
    They're out tryin' to ruin
    Forgive them for they know not what they're doin'

    Don't nick-name it
    You might as well claim it
    It swept this whole wide land
    Rock and roll forever will stand

    Hear those sax blowin'
    Sharp as lightnin'
    Hear those drums beatin'
    Loud as thunder

    Some folks don't understand it
    That's why they don't demand it
    They're out tryin' to ruin
    Forgive them for they know not what they're doin'

    Don't you nick-name it
    You might as well claim it
    It will be here for ever and ever
    Ain't gonna fade
    Never no never

    It swept this whole wide land
    Sinking deep in the heart of man
    Come on boy join our clan
    Come on boy take my hand
    Come on boy be a man
    'Cause rock and roll will stand

    Let's do it all over again
    I feel good let's do it again
    It'll be here for ever and ever
    Ain't gonna fade
    Never, no never

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    Gene Simmons is the one of the last persons I would look to for establishing standards on anything.  The very fact they needed to put on their makeup again to gain any latter-day notoriety is rather telling.

    Despite the fame and riches of KISS, I would put all three of those rap groups as more artistically important to popular music in general.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    I think Simmons is likely right about the 'backroom politics' part.  I've felt that way about the RRHOF for quite a while now.

    I still make the connection between the RRHOF and Rolling Stone, which has done things like omit bands such as Deep Purple, ELP and the Moody Blues from their Album Review compendium books (which are otherwise excellent) because they don't care for them. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    Calling it the RnR hall of Fame is a Joke.  Time to rename it the Music hall of fame.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rich1273. Show Rich1273's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    I think he's just salty because they're just now getting inducted in the HOF now. There are soul artists, funk artists, pop artists, r&b artists, etc. all in the RnR HOF. He's right in saying those artists he named aren't Rock, but for whatever reason the RnR HOF has sort of become the "modern music" HOF.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    I think Simmons is likely right about the 'backroom politics' part.  I've felt that way about the RRHOF for quite a while now.



    Me, too, re: calling them out for politics and lack of transparency.   I find it amusing that he'd say that the year Kiss is being inducted.  

    His inflated view of Kiss ("they should have been inducted years ago") is a riot, too.  

    We'll have to see what Zilla's response is re: the statement pertaining to Madonna, which Simmons seems to have thrown in for good measure.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Klaas. Show Klaas's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    Calling it the RnR hall of Fame is a Joke.  Time to rename it the Music hall of fame.


    Then you would have to have Bach, van Beethoven, Mozart, etc. in it too ... and I think classic music people might have a heart attack being amongst such a crowd.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    I was a little bored this morning, so I took a peek to see what was going on here.

    I don't have time for a proper response to this, but let's just say I'm a bigger fan of Gene Simmons right now than I've ever been before.

    Of course, he says and does dumb stuff, his band was no juggernaught of Rock, mainly a joke, actually....but the guy is right on about the Rock and Roll Hall Of Shame.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has failed miserably because they never consulted me, a renowned expert on rock & roll music. 'My" view of rock music is the only correct one. Since they didn't induct "my" favorites and use "my" criteria they are a joke. They created this farce of a Hall of Fame knowing full well that "my" tastes and opinions are the only ones that are true and correct. How dare they!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    It's unfortunate, but the Hall of Fame is kind of a mess because of the vagaries of defining what qualfies as Rock and Roll, and the petty, snobby biases of the guys who run it.

    Let's start a new one! Laughing

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    Establishing a Hall of Fame for anything is like trying to come up with the perfect list of people to invite to a wedding. Some don't care to be invited and others will be insulted if they aren't. There isn't a Hall of Fame on the planet that will satisfy everyone. Besides, why do the famous need a Hall of Fame anyway? It's redundant.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    Establishing a Hall of Fame for anything is like trying to come up with the perfect list of people to invite to a wedding. Some don't care to be invited and others will be insulted if they aren't. There isn't a Hall of Fame on the planet that will satisfy everyone.

    Besides, why do the famous need a Hall of Fame anyway? It's redundant.



    Again, I have no argument re: the RnR Museum / Library / Archives, for a centralized location of organized material that captures records re:  the greats of the rock industry, over time.   

    No induction.   Get rid of the HoF.   However ... as far as halls of fame go in general:

    As the generations go by, how else will the 'greats'  be remembered?   Books.  Fine.  Museums.  Fine.    But what about specialized curated environments?    Such as a Hall of Fame (maybe a new name would be better?)

    What if I were to say that a Hall of Fame isn't for the famous.    It's a place to honor the greats, but it's not for them.  It's for us.  

    Look at it this way:  some of the most influential painters in history are long since dead.   Are their paintings in museums for them, or to be viewed, now and in the future, by millions of people -- from around the world?    Not concisely the same, but you get the idea. 

    Famous people may not care -- and we may not care now ourselves -- but what about future generations?   Do they start from their own generation and never look back?   It's tricky.    There are historical societies througout the United States.   Would it be sufficient to put the memorabilia and records for musicians there -- decentralized? 

    As for satisfying 'everyone'  - who says that's a goal?   It's better to have nothing?   Striving for 100% agreement on anything is not going to get you anywhere, and equates to setting yourself up for failure.  

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    I have a grudge against the Rolling Stone magazine guys, in case you couldn't tell.  Leaving Deep Purple and ELP out of their album guides is unconscionable.  Snobs.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    Here it is a nutshell ( it will be a rather large nut however):

    Just like anything else in this godforsaken, polluted world , it's all about the $$$ , money talks louder than anything else.....( do you see another "we're only in it for the money" rant coming.....you should!).

    How do we get people who like Rock and Roll to come to our museum?...put in the biggest acts in Rock music.

    How do we get people who are not Rock fans to come to our museum?...snub creative , relatively unknown Rock acts in favor of the big names from other genres.

    Just like the silly "countdowns" that lots of radio stations are doing on holiday weekends, the focus is on "well known", "best selling" , or "popular" artists....whether they made "groundbreaking" or "creative" music doesn't factor in to it. Of course many of the quality artists are in there....it's erratic and confusing to a long time fan like myself ( and obviously to Gene Simmons and John Lydon, members of bands that may not have been the most talented , but had a HUGE impact on ROCK music ....in their heydey. These bands were passed over in favor of more popular artists who do not play ROCK). The radio countdowns are just a way of pre-programming music and leaving the station on "autopilot" during long weekends when they probably can't get anyone to work....the order of the bands are meaningless, anyone who knows how to log in to their site can vote....so in these countdowns songs by Journey beat out songs by Traffic or Cream...insanity!!! 

    It's all about money. Want to dispute this? The more popular names in the Museum the more people visit and the more money they make. I can't really blame them, I mean they need to turn a profit. I just wish they had called it the "Popular Music Hall Of Fame." Because that's what it is. It's like putting Arnold Palmer in the Baseball Hall Of Fame....I mean, sure the guy played a sport (sort of) and he was really good at it, but it has nothing to do with "baseball." Rap and Hip Hop have nothing to do with Rock....I mean, seriously....like Gene Simmons says, no guitars and no singing they "talk and sample"...which should put them in the "Pathetic Attempts At Making Music Hall Of Fame"...but not in a so-called "Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame."

    I've said enough and surely there will be backlash, but I can say with no doubts whatsoever that I am far from alone in feeling this way. So, as a ranting poster with no fear, I will gladly carry the ball on this subject, every chance I get.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    Nick Lowe is not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I don't care. I love his music and love to see him perform live and that is all that matters to me. If he gets inducted, I will not go running off to see artifacts of the man. I have seen and heard the man and that is all that will ever really matter to me.

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    Here it is a nutshell ( it will be a rather large nut however):

    Just like anything else in this godforsaken, polluted world , it's all about the $$$ , money talks louder than anything else.....( do you see another "we're only in it for the money" rant coming.....you should!).

    How do we get people who like Rock and Roll to come to our museum?...put in the biggest acts in Rock music.

    How do we get people who are not Rock fans to come to our museum?...snub creative , relatively unknown Rock acts in favor of the big names from other genres.

    Just like the silly "countdowns" that lots of radio stations are doing on holiday weekends, the focus is on "well known", "best selling" , or "popular" artists....whether they made "groundbreaking" or "creative" music doesn't factor in to it. Of course many of the quality artists are in there....it's erratic and confusing to a long time fan like myself ( and obviously to Gene Simmons and John Lydon, members of bands that may not have been the most talented , but had a HUGE impact on ROCK music ....in their heydey. These bands were passed over in favor of more popular artists who do not play ROCK). The radio countdowns are just a way of pre-programming music and leaving the station on "autopilot" during long weekends when they probably can't get anyone to work....the order of the bands are meaningless, anyone who knows how to log in to their site can vote....so in these countdowns songs by Journey beat out songs by Traffic or Cream...insanity!!! 

    It's all about money. Want to dispute this? The more popular names in the Museum the more people visit and the more money they make. I can't really blame them, I mean they need to turn a profit. I just wish they had called it the "Popular Music Hall Of Fame." Because that's what it is. It's like putting Arnold Palmer in the Baseball Hall Of Fame....I mean, sure the guy played a sport (sort of) and he was really good at it, but it has nothing to do with "baseball." Rap and Hip Hop have nothing to do with Rock....I mean, seriously....like Gene Simmons says, no guitars and no singing they "talk and sample"...which should put them in the "Pathetic Attempts At Making Music Hall Of Fame"...but not in a so-called "Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame."

    I've said enough and surely there will be backlash, but I can say with no doubts whatsoever that I am far from alone in feeling this way. So, as a ranting poster with no fear, I will gladly carry the ball on this subject, every chance I get.



    What is a "quality" artist?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    I'll tell you what isn't "quality" Rock music...they may be "quality" in their own genres....but not in Rock.

    Here are a few:

    Tony Orlando and Dawn

    KC And The Sunshine Band

    The Fat Boys

    KISS is not a "quality" music band, they did , howver, have an impact and they are indeed a "Rock" act. The Sex Pistols are not  "quality" band, ( I love them , just the same...because they were rebellious and true to what Rock should be all about)....however, The Sex Pistols were a Rock act....and they made an impact.

    Again, I don't deny popular music a place in a museum. I don't deny "run of the mill" bands a place in a museum, but don't pass over "quality" ROCK BANDS ( Deep Purple) in favor of lesser quality ( Guns'N'Roses...good band , but please...) don't pass over real Rock in favor of popular artists from other genres( Michael Jackson)....

    ...what this does is it "dilutes" ( as Gene says) , the product. 

    Would you want Rich Gedman in the Baseball Hall Of Fame?...Raul Mondesi?...they were decent players, they were famous, they did play baseball. But far from the upper tier. Is Lawrence Taylor in the Baseball Hall Of Fame?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    Zilla, I take great offence to your post, and here's why:

    Golf is a sport, buddy! Laughing

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Zilla, I take great offence to your post, and here's why:

    Golf is a sport, buddy! Laughing



    Some would say it's more of a hobby....now,  I am not saying it's easy....neither is chess...and I've played that one and it is no more a sport than chasing a little ball around a big lawn and putting it in a tiny hole.....Laughing

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    I'll tell you what isn't "quality" Rock music...they may be "quality" in their own genres....but not in Rock.

    Here are a few:

    Tony Orlando and Dawn

    KC And The Sunshine Band

    The Fat Boys

    KISS is not a "quality" music band, they did , howver, have an impact and they are indeed a "Rock" act. The Sex Pistols are not  "quality" band, ( I love them , just the same...because they were rebellious and true to what Rock should be all about)....however, The Sex Pistols were a Rock act....and they made an impact.

    Again, I don't deny popular music a place in a museum. I don't deny "run of the mill" bands a place in a museum, but don't pass over "quality" ROCK BANDS ( Deep Purple) in favor of lesser quality ( Guns'N'Roses...good band , but please...) don't pass over real Rock in favor of popular artists from other genres( Michael Jackson)....

    ...what this does is it "dilutes" ( as Gene says) , the product. 

    Would you want Rich Gedman in the Baseball Hall Of Fame?...Raul Mondesi?...they were decent players, they were famous, they did play baseball. But far from the upper tier. Is Lawrence Taylor in the Baseball Hall Of Fame?

    The crux of this Hall of Fame debate is about who is the best judge of quality and based on what? For example, what about those performers who occupy the middle ground? That really is what this is all about. Some bands may cause more of a split in critical opinion than say, The Beatles, who are nearly universally critically acclaimed. What about those performers who aren't universally praised critically? This is just like in baseball where there are players like Luis Tiant who fans will debate his level of "greatness". It is not always so black and white with a sharp dividing line between greater and lesser.

    Your argument is that these judgements are always clear cut and obvious, but you are wrong. It just isn't so. If you can't admit to that, there is really nothing to debate.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    I can't post further right now as there is this little matter called work that I must get back to, I would love to continue, I'm just out of time for today.

    'CLEAR CUT AND OBVIOUS' is possibly not always as clear cut and obvious as I believe it is... I agree.

    I am debating purely from a point of view that eludes most music fans. Sorry, but I cannot look at it any other way. 

    I believe that Deep Purple is a great band...and millions agree. I believe they are more influential than KISS and Guns'N'Roses.....but all are Rock bands. This is true.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    The only thing that makes any sense at all is if they change the name to Popular Music HOF or Modern Music HOF or whatever.  Because they've clearly expanded the membership beyond any reasonable boundaries of rock music.

    But I'll bet the governance would kick up a big fuss about a name change, because the one they have now, while inaccurate, is cool.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    They'll never change the name.   They might change the rules of the game, but not the name.

    NOW, here's more to get you going!!   Laughing. Use left and right arrows to navigate.

    They are currently gathering votes from fans for the TOP 10 festival moments in history, from which they plan to make an exhibition.

    If you want to check it out (and vote) here's the link:

    http://www.rockhall.com/

    Click on VOTE NOW.   

    Too funny.    If you vote, you're not "selling out" ; you're just having fun.  

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Gene Simmons:

    Aaarrrggghhh!!! (Yoga knows!)

    1. Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame?  IMO a total joke...it sickens me that a form of art (that I love) is being debased this way.  What's next, a painters Hall of Fame?  A sculpters Hall of Fame?  Ad nauseum.
    2. Rock'n'Roll's genesis was a rebellious reaction to everything that convention, society, tradition and other perceived or real barriers had imposed on (amongst others) the young, disaffected, poor, "minority", etc.  And now - for some - it's another excuse for another lame red carpet event.
    3. If you - a reader of this rant - like a certain book, band, song, film, poem, sport, food or drink....why would you care about validation from others?  If your favourite number was say, 2, but most of your neighbors, colleagues, family and local journalists openly preferred the numbers 3 and above....would you have any interest in the result of an annual "Best number of the year" popularity contest that annointed nbr 2 as the best number?
    4. As for KISS....oof.  I'm pretty ignorant of them, largely by choice, but when they reformed years ago didn't two of them (Simmons for sure, and another...the bassist?....(I think) the main songwriters) hire the drummer and the other git player on salaries?  Rock'n'efffing'roll, you awful, mercenary phonies.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share