It's been obvious to me for many years that just as we have "chick flicks" and movies for guys, we also have a fair amount of music made with a certain gender in mind.

I mean, do you really think when Rod Stewart sang "if you think I'm sexy and you want my body" he was singing to guys and girls alike ?( well , we sure hope not!)

I grew up with 2 sisters and acquired a step sister along the way. They liked songs by Herman's Hermits and Sonny and Cher ( yuck!) while I was listening to Beatles, Cheech and Chong and Santana among other things.

Pop music today seems so "chick" oriented. The pop songs I am hearing ( mainly by female singers , but not always) while at work are all about relationships and heartbreak etc....you know ,girl subjects.

I wonder where the dividing line between girl songs and guy songs is drawn. While Rod Stewart has always been popular with the ladies, he did do a few really good songs which I like. By the same token, Heavy Metal has mainly been a "genre" for males, I have known quite a few of the fairer sex who enjoy some Heavy Metal tunes.

Just curious as to whether this is a subject we can expand upon and give opinions about.

If not , just let it sink to the bottom and we'll forget I ever mentioned it.

I think Bob dylan is a genius,  I have been to over 110 grateful dead concerts,  I seen the Clash in person a few times, and I have been spit on by Johnny Rotten.  All that being said I got to tell you that Do Ya Think I'm Sexy is not a bad song.  It always makes me chuckle and kind of go back to my single life (when I was alive).  Don't get me wrong I would not want a steady diet of it or music from that disco style but that particular song I thought was not that bad, nor was it meant just for woman.  Now I would agree that there is a lot of music just for teenage girls just as the hair bands of the '80s were aimed at teenage boys (for the most part)

 and Don't forget, the Beatles started out as a boy band

In Response to Re: Guy( male) songs vs. chick ( female) songs....where do we draw the line?:


Please don't.

I think Metal heads turned against the 80's Hair Metal scene because the bands were playing to an audience that was 50% female.

Personally, I never understood why a guy would have an issue with that, but then, what do I know.

"Give me a dime so I can call my mother"

I am in no way nor would I ever 'diss the Beatles

This thread has somehow gone down the wrong path.

Let's get back on the right track.

Bob Dylan is a genius.

Grateful Dead concerts were awesome.

Getting spat on by anyone , not so awesome.

Not arguing whether "do you think I'm Sexy" is a good or bad song....but it is surely more popular with females than males. I thankfully do not know any guys who like this song.

Now, the Beatles as "boy band" thing. This is just wrong. A "boy band" is a manufactured style of music created by corporate types to sell records and create a "frenzy" amongst teen girls...today's version would be Justin Beiber or those kids on the Disney channel. The boy band craze was a farce mainly perpetrated by Lou Pearlman , a homomsexual con-man who is currently in jail. He managed The NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys.
The Beatles were playing many covers of old rock songs in a small Liverpool club when Brian Epstein "discovered" them, they were not manufactured for fame, but "guided" by Epstein. They found steady work in Hamburg, Germany where they played in sleazy all-night clubs to mainly drunks, prostitutes and in between strippers acts. It was around that time that they began writing their own material and they always played their own instruments ( as opposed to "boy bands" who just sing).
How does one figure the Beatles started out as a "boy band?" They were a rock'n'roll band in the image of Buddy Holly and the Crickets, hence the insect name "Beatles" being similar to Crickets. The closest thing to a "boy band " in that era would probably be the Bee Gees.

Is it because of all the screaming teenagers that you classsify them as a "boy band?" That was commonplace in those days, Elvis, Rolling Stones, The Animals, The Loving Spoonful...al were greeted by screaming teenage kids....girls and boys.

Did not Brian E dress them in suits and was not their mop top haircuts all staged to make them popular with teen girls (i, am talking "63 early '64.  Hell they stopped touring because they could not hear themselves think from all the teeny bopper girls.  They were the first boy band, they just grew out of that stereotype with huge amounts of talent which grew rapidly from album to album.  I also know that they had rock & roll in their bloodstream ( see days in Hamburg/cavern club) but Brian E knew that if they were to get noticed that they would need to appeal to young girls.  They didn't even let the word out that John was married for fear that it would impede their path to stardom

I googled who was the first boy band and this came up

"Although not a manufactured band, The Beatles set a precedent for boy bands to follow both in terms of marketing to young girls and certain aesthetic and musical conventions. The merchandising, whether it was films like A Hard Day's Night or novelty goods were possibly the first aimed at a certain demographic on a large scale for a group. This made them a proto-type for boy bands, such as The Jackson 5 and The Monkees. Musical conventions that boy bands adopted from The Beatles were less their technical proficiency as musicians and more the catchy pop hooks, melodies and harmonies combined with their marketability. Their marketability was based the idea that there was something for everyone, whether it is the music or the personality of John Lennon or Paul McCartney or their sex appeal."

I guess a lady's opinion might do well here, but since there isn't one around, I'll have to do.....

It has always seemed to me that chicks write songs about love and romance and boys and unicorns and ponies and glitter and myspace.com.....and dudes write about girls and war and peace and politics and cars and motorcycles and outer space and sex and drugs and...well, the list goes on.  I've never been fond of chick bands (or chick flicks, for that matter) because of the subject matter they sing about (note: there are exceptions to the Ponies and Glitter Chick songs by Chick bands). 

I mean, the Who gave us Tommy.  Kesha gives us the same old lyrics to a new tune (swear....has anyone heard her junk on the radio?  The lyrics all sound the same, it's just the tune that's different).  

But, most honorable Lizard, I will agree with you on one point: it does seem like Pop music is all about the girl subjects (I keep thinking that I should be insulted and outraged but....I'm just not feeling it...).  Those songs appeal to teen-girls who have no clue what the real world is like - to them, it's all party and glitter and getting drunk.  (I've also secretly thought that the appeal of singers like Gaga was also transference association: you know, Gaga is sexy, therefore if I like Gaga, boys will find me sexy.  Maybe teen girls have changed this manner of thinking since I was a teen ager...but teen girls have a tendency to do this a lot: Boy likes football, therefore I'll like football, then Boy will like me because we are exactly alike). 

I think there are songs that have a larger female demographic, and are marketed to such. 

And I just can't stand Pop Music. 

Guy songs
Welcome to the Jungle
Almost anything by Metillca
Almost all Heavy Metal is guy stuff, although many a women likes AC/DC.
You will find very few women that dig Motorhead.

Chick music
Lady Gaga
Celine Dion
Cher
Almost all disco and tech music is very women based, ( and  few Guys but we wont get into that ).

Now what I like about this thread is music by an artist that is sometimes what you would say is guy music and sometimes chick music.

Rod Stewart is a great starting point. If you go back the Rod's Face's days that is guy music for the most part, yes he had maggie may but on the whole its more guy stuff.

Later Rod becomes a disco guy and his music flips to mostly women liking it...
This is what happens when the stones steal ron wood from you.

Popular culture in general is driven in large part by the big three: film, literture, and yes, music.  Nothing new there.  So it's certainly true that marketing plays a role in getting the three types of entertainment media out the door and sold.  It's not something I like to think about (someone knows how to get inside my head and make me buy something?  Not me, that's for the lowest common denominator ... not me!   (just kidding .. well, not really!)
So I agree that the marketing is going along the gender line, with the hair, make up and sex to sell to girls / women, along with the lyrics.  Predictable and a bit depressing. 

There are always going to be freaks and geeks (yay for them), but the more things change, the more they stay the same, and there will always be people, who from a young age, will aspire to be the popular cheerleader and the captain of the football team, with all the trappings that go with those roles.   So does music go with finding that identity, yes, it does.  At least on the surface. 

When you're young, you are figuring out who you are, including your sexuality, and pop music is a big part of that transition process.  Girls want to figure out how to get a  guy to like them, so they always have and seems they always will, gravitate to music that helps them get the guy, or the music that helps them deal with rejection from the guy.  That's universal.   

I think a much more interesting trend is being aware of the blurring of the age groups that are interested in that sort of chick music, as many women listen to the same music as their daughters, from all age groups, even when they are no longer really dealing with those issues, they still listen to the music that speaks to those parts of their identity.  Is that just part of the DNA of being a chick, regardless of age??  Good question! 
I'd venture to say the more "progressive / alternative" female singers have appealed to men for a long time (Tori Amos, Liz Phair, Tanya Donnelly, blue grass singer Alison Krauss, and even Sarah McLachlan, to name a few) and have a wider appeal than the pop singers that (honestly, I don't listen to them myself!) like Avril Lavigne, Christina Aguilera, or even Taylor Swift, who have a predominantly female following.   But then there's Norah Jones (not my taste, honestly) and men seem to be very big fans of her music, and she has not had to do anything sensational to attract attention. 

On another note, in my social circle, in both my platonic and romantic experiences with men, the best, most interesting, most innovative, and most "accurately" (meaning, I loved and gravitated to the music) recommended music for me, has always, hands down, been brought to me by men.  I have rarely had a female friend recommend music to me that had any staying power for me (I said rare, not never).  And this includes recommending female singers that I'd never heard of, in many cases. 

What is chick music anyway?

In Response to Re: Guy( male) songs vs. chick ( female) songs....where do we draw the line?:


What's a chick flick?   What's chick lit?  Same concept, same logic, but applied to music.   Don't act like you don't know.  You have mentioned that you have sisters.  Most men who grew up in a house with women tend to know more than they let on.
 

Number one reason guys give for wanting to start a band: to get girls


That said, if I can read Eyre or Alcott or Wharton (or view O'Keefe or Cassatt's paintings) and relate, then I can listen to Liz Phair or Patti Smith or Aretha Franklin for the same reason.  Art isn't necessarily gender-neutral, BUT great art (even good art) should usually transcend such categorization even when the subject matter happens to be overtly feminine or masculine.  It should make no difference what's hanging between my legs.

Point being: does it make any difference whether Freddie Mercury singing "Somebody To Love" is singing to a male or female...??  It's a great song.

P.S.  One only need to attend a single Dave Matthews Band show to witness the full-on (often cringe-worthy) bro-mance that some guys have toward Dave and his music.  It's truly a phenomenon that I can't explain. 

I mean, I like the music just fine, the shows are rarely boring, and the band is tight, but my exposure and appreciation of the music is much more a product of my wife's fascination than my own.

In Response to Re: Guy( male) songs vs. chick ( female) songs....where do we draw the line?:


Well, are we talking about great art?   I don't think anyone would define great art as gender specific, whether it is audio or visual, agreed. 

If we're addresssing pop music, that's a different animal.  Not in every instance, of course, but I actually think many people really *like* the idea that some artists speak to their gender, females in particular.  Some things are universal, but some feelings do go along gender specific lines: you, for example, can't tell a woman you really and truly know how she feels, you don't.  You may think you do, but you don't. 
I don't feel any particular need for solidarity with the sisterhood at this point in my life, but there are plenty of women out there who do.  

In Response to Re: Guy( male) songs vs. chick ( female) songs....where do we draw the line?:


But then we're talking about perspectives or points-of-view and the fact that art tends to reflect life as the artist sees it.  I don't think that a woman needs to perceive a particular song as speaking to her to appreciate the artistic value of the song.  Same goes for men.  It's obviously no surprise that the mystique of gender roles pervade art so incessantly.

However, good art (i.e. art that works on a certain level) almost always takes into account the audience as well as the point-of-view.  I'm classifying pop music as art because it operates within the same creative vocabulary.

So, when the Beatles sing "shake it up, baby...twist and shout", the point-of-view is essentially neutral even when they reach the line "twist it, little girl".  Other connotations aside, some songs are just universally appealing.

Agreed though that nearly any attempt to truly understand the feelings of the opposite sex can fall flat.  But again, that's one reason we have art - to know the unknowable and place it within a context that others can comprehend (or at least appreciate).  Speaking for myself, Art School was informative that way.  :)

In Response to Re: Guy( male) songs vs. chick ( female) songs....where do we draw the line?:

Mattyhorn - I was just about to make a point about how Great Artists also painted for the times they lived in...which is why there are a lot of paintings that deal with religious subjects since that's what audiences of the times demanded...but you beat me to it...and said it in a much better way. 

Another example: Look at the flood of Vampire related novels that have hit the market.  Because of the success (and I still haven't figured out why.....the main character is such a freaking Mary Sue..no, I do know the answer to that, I just won't get into that right now) of Twilight,  so many other authors have jumped on the gravy train...writing to the audience.  

Jessey- I would classify Chick Music as anything that panders to the overly idealized view of Romance - against all odds/Romeo & Juliet/My Love will Change Him/One True Love...that kinda stuff (Ha! Those sound like song titles...if they are, that was unintentional)

Yoga - totally agree with you on solidarity and sisterhood.  I've never felt the need for it, either.   

In Response to Re: Guy( male) songs vs. chick ( female) songs....where do we draw the line?:


Good points all, Yoshimi.  (love yer tag, btw)

I think it helps, though it's certainly not necessary, to understand a little bit of cultural context surrounding a piece of art or music.  "American Idiot" is a completely different album without the context of the Bush presidency in which it was written, for example.

I think this is especially true re: cultural mores and what is or isn't "appropriate" subject matter.  Re: the twilight series, I don't think they would have been possible without the success of Buffy and the empowerment that series embodied for young women, not to mention the mainstreaming of a cultural trope like vampires.  But if they were really groundbreaking, the characters' genders would have been reversed...and therefore LESS popular with the target audience for the reasons you mentioned.

Today as fate had it, I was channel surfing on the radio in my car and the topic on a talk show on NPR was "break up songs" -- you can only imagine how happy I was to hear some of the calls and to hear the songs people mentioned, it was actually very relevant to this discussion, fun and interesting. 

People relayed (briefly) their break up situation (in most cases, the breakup was a long time ago)  and why they latched onto the song and made it their signature song or "anthem" at the height of the pain of the break up. 

While there was some, there was actually very little gender bias in the choices of the breakup songs. 

One of the songs a woman mentioned was sung by the incomparable Nina Simone.  The "break up song" for this woman was "Black is the color of my true love's hair" b/c the man that broke her heart had beautiful black hair.   Another one was "End of the road" by Boyz II Men.  A man mentioned "Sorry / hardest word by Elton John, and another woman had "Simple twist of fate" by Dylan.  There in fact, were lots of Dylan songs used as break up songs by both men and women.  Must have been lots of people who came of age when he was very popular.

So it did get me to thinking about what was said here about perception and context. 

And while I still think that there is a need for chicks to have their own survival anthems (music that says I don't need a man to be happy, or I'm a strong powerful WOMAN yeah yeah yeah), because after all is said and done, it is still largely, a man's world.     (take that any way you want -- but coming from me, it's delivered with a wink and a laugh)

In Response to Re: Guy( male) songs vs. chick ( female) songs....where do we draw the line?:

Very true. They are brothers and started out when they were 11-14 years old.

Highway Star by Deep Purple is without doubt the greatest "guy" song ever.

I think these songs are also "guy" songs:

Locomotive Breath- Jethro Tull
Godzilla- Blue Oyster Cult
Paranoid-Black Sabbath
The Zoo- Scorpions
TNT- AC/DC
Bargain- The Who
Start Me Up- The Rolling Stones

It's not that females cannot "like" such a song, but that they are aimed more at a male audience.

Just as "Piece Of My Heart" by Janis Joplin with Big Brother is primarily a "chick" song , but as a guy I can still "like" it....same can be said about "Magic man" by Heart....as a guy , you don't want to be heard singing " try,try, try to understand....he's a magic man" as you sit there with your headphones on....this would kind of send the wrong message to someone who might not know you too well, and even to some that do know you.

I think guy and chick songs lie at the extremes of music. And then you find that not even that is true. The more I think about it, the more blurry the line gets. If we limit this to heterosexuals, the line is a wee bit clearer. If not, all hell breaks loose.

I'm a guy but I enjoy my disco collections. I like girl groups of the sixties. I also like blues singers like Muddy Waters who sang, "I Just Want to Make Love to You". Now I know for sure he wasn't singing to me. Sometimes we put ourselves in the singers shoes, and sometimes we are being sung to. It's all just in our imaginations. Some guys like mellow folk music and some chicks dig heavy metal. This may or may not define us as guys or chicks. Although I gotta believe that "Mother-In-Law" by Ernie K-Doe is more a favorite of guy son-in-laws than it is of chick mother-in-laws.

P.S. I adore my mother-in law.