1. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

     

    Pop culture used to ricochet from one trend to the next, but these days we’re in The Age Of More Of The Same, with the websites you visit storing info on your tastes and encouraging you to have, well, some more of the same.  

    ‘People who bought this product also bought…’ ‘If you like that, you’ll like this…’ ‘You’ve been listening to so-and-so lately, why not try this…?’ The result: consumer-driven stasis.

    “The Beatles, The Who and The Kinks – that’s gone now and will never be repeated,” said Noel Gallagher. “In the mid-nineties, it was the bands and a small group of fans that had ownership of it. Now it’s the consumer that drives it, so music will go wherever the consumer demands that it goes. We will not have another punk, or another acid house, or another Britpop. That’s a fact.

    “Because the consumer gets what he wants, and the consumer don’t know s_hhit. If you’d asked the consumer in the middle of prog rock: ‘What do you want next year?’ he’s not going to say: ‘I want Johnny Rotten’, is he?”


    http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/blog/is-this-the-end-of-rock/


    WELL??? 

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?


    Depends on what you call Rock. If you consider Maroon 5 and/or Mumford and Sons or Lorde rock than it is still alive and doing fairly well. I would never consider Lorde rock but according to billboard magazine she is. Heavy metal and hard rock has pretty much gone underground with a few exceptions.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    No, rock music is alive and well.  It'll die the same time the planet does.  I hear lots of good stuff on 'Live 105' here.

    Rival Sons - Pressure and Time

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MA0m1K2jW4

    Then there's Slash, Wolfmother, the re-formed Stone Temple Pilots with the singer from Linkin Park, the latest from Alice in Chains etc.

    You just might have to do a bit more digging to find what looking for.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    You just might have to do a bit more digging to find what looking for.

    Yes, you do.   

    I agree the article goes over the top (rock music is here to stay, I agree) but OTOH, it does make some relevant points that pertain to a large segment of the consumer population and the music industry at large.

    Part of the problem is derived from the marketing / lowest common denominator / commercial appeal standpoint which is another way of saying that they're  (the industry)  letting "the tail wag the dog", and that that they are using consumer appeal to create music ... and that's why it's been a disaster in terms of derivative crap for a number of years.  Generalization, of course, but the complaints about the current music are proof that something has gone wrong.  The music industry doesn't take as many chances for the simple reason that they are going after a sure thing in terms of $$$.  

    The average consumer is not the creative force, the musicians and the industry should be doing that.  The consumer can only draw on what they know.   Maybe it's always been this way, but the claim is that now it's been taken to a dangerous level. 

    I realize I forgot the link to the article.  How can you ignore an article with the header "Rock in Crisis"??   ;)   

    http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/blog/is-this-the-end-of-rock/   

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    Hi Yoga.  You know what I wanna write.  ;-)

    So I won't write it...

    I'll write it tangentially instead....if you don't go to lots of small gigs at little venues to see bands you might or might not know (those with evening obligations e.g. children get some slack)....if you don't have a good number of favourite record labels....if you have friends over and you don't have something new to play for them, etc.

    Then rock is dead for you.

    It ain't dead for me.

    Future Primitives, The Youth, Os Haxixins, Daddy Long Legs, Hex Dispensers, ad infinitum. 

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

    Hi Yoga.  You know what I wanna write.  ;-)

    So I won't write it...

    I'll write it tangentially instead....if you don't go to lots of small gigs at little venues to see bands you might or might not know (those with evening obligations e.g. children get some slack)....if you don't have a good number of favourite record labels....if you have friends over and you don't have something new to play for them, etc.

    Then rock is dead for you.

    It ain't dead for me.

    Future Primitives, The Youth, Os Haxixins, Daddy Long Legs, Hex Dispensers, ad infinitum. 

     



    I'm on my way out the door to go to a *small* art show -- my favorite artist is local.  :)

    I didn't write the article -- just reported on it.   This is what it says:  the music industry is going in one direction --- so if you don't like it --- go in the opposite direction.  

    You will do that, Sonics.  That I know.  :)

    But some people are fine with the direction they are given.   They don't question it. 

    The issue will just become more acute over time, b/c what it implies is that there is a generation being "groomed" to accept "what is" ...

    I wear color combinations that no one else would wear.  People always say to me, "I would *never* have thought of wearing those colors together ..." -- what do they mean, they never thought of it?? -- just throw them together!   But they don't ... until they see someone else do it.  

    Have a lovely day.   Off to look at some "art"  (whatever that means!)

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?


    Just the other day I got a call from a friend- "I heard what you been playin' and I think it's a sin, why can't you make a livin' like the rest of the boys, instead of fillin' your head with all that synthesized noise?"

    Jackals wait nearby, watching Rock 'n' Roll die. None dared to help it, vultures fill the sky.

    I thought we was supposed ta, supposed to be free....I thought we was supposed ta supposed ta be free....but we all got sold- IT MUST BE THE DEATH OF ROCK'N'ROLL.

    The critics got together and they started a game, you get your records for nothing and call each other names.

    Things got out of hand and somebody got sore, now we're all tuning up for the Rock'n'Roll war.

    Time to take up sides helping Rock'n'Roll die, pick up your check at the window, no one will cry.

    Nobody paid, nobody stayed, nobody played.

    Must be the DEATH OF ROCK'N'ROLL.

    I thought we was supposed ta, supposed to be free....I thought we was supposed ta be free.

    'The Death Of Rock'n'Roll' from Todd Rundgren's Initiation Lp in 1975.

    Rock was dying almost right from the beginning. It get's resurrected every time it "dies."

    The music will never die, it is now programmed into our DNA. Like folklore it gets handed down to the next generation, it will certainly out live any of us.

    No generation will ever be as close to it as our generation was...but "death", that's so final. I don't see Rock music "dying", just going into sleep mode occasionally.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    I always thought rock 'n' roll died on February 2, 1959, 55 years ago.

    But as far as any musical genre, it's not so much about dying but about losing social significance. We still have Classical, Jazz, Blues, and Country, to name a few, but what is their social significance? Every type of music has its day and then fades, just like old soldiers. Once invented, no musical genre completely dies as long as there are people who play it and/or listen to it. But as a significant social phenomenon, rock is long dead along with other great genres of music.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    One of the biggest problems, I think, was the advent of downloading and MP3's and online retailers and the damage that was done to bricks-and-mortar record stores.  The old record store was a fabulous place for people to meet and talk about and experience the excitement of new, good, rock music as it came out.  Here in Canada the death of Sam The Record Man was a huge and symbolic loss.  The Sam's on Yonge Street in Toronto was like the Disneyland of record shops in Canada.  It was immense...your adrenalin was pumping as you roamed through it like a kid in a candy store.

    Record stores were hip and cool and smart and all that.  The record buying experience has been dumbed down.    

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Klaas. Show Klaas's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    I don't think rock music is dead or dying, it's just of a different variety from the 60's-80's. The rock music from today's era I like is alternative rock, such as Coldplay and Radiohead ... this makes sense since because I like Pink Floyd and some U2, therefore I like these two bands.

    Because I haven't listened to all of the music of the 70's or 80's, due to either being too young, studying, or playing sports a lot (and I mean a lot), not to mention having girlfriends, I thus like to catch up on the music from that era too.

    My all-time favorite music is from 70's through 90's, specifically hard rock and glam metal, all of which takes a second seat to my major addiction, The Rolling Stones, all of which I make no appologies for.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from leafswin27. Show leafswin27's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?


    There is a ton of great garage rock around.. It is there..just not commercial type but it is defintiey there

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    In response to ccnsd's comment:


    Depends on what you call Rock. If you consider Maroon 5 and/or Mumford and Sons or Lorde rock than it is still alive and doing fairly well. I would never consider Lorde rock but according to billboard magazine she is. Heavy metal and hard rock has pretty much gone underground with a few exceptions.



    This is one of the points made, actually.   Hits / singles (which is what 'charts' consist of) are one thing, and the top singles (and most of the people on this forum would never look at a chart in the first place) are predominantly *not* rock: far from it.  Even the singles that are considered "rock" in a chart, and they are a tiny per cent, would be laughed at by most fans of rock music.    So to get hold of decent rock music, right, you would not seek out what's charting, or count on "statistics" to tell you if rock music was dying.   

    It's become the norm for the consumer, then, to seek out the 'rock' music that they like on their own, or want to experiment with, because the music has gone more and more 'underground' for those rock fans.   

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    One of the biggest problems, I think, was the advent of downloading and MP3's and online retailers and the damage that was done to bricks-and-mortar record stores.  The old record store was a fabulous place for people to meet and talk about and experience the excitement of new, good, rock music as it came out.  Here in Canada the death of Sam The Record Man was a huge and symbolic loss.  The Sam's on Yonge Street in Toronto was like the Disneyland of record shops in Canada.  It was immense...your adrenalin was pumping as you roamed through it like a kid in a candy store.

    Record stores were hip and cool and smart and all that.  The record buying experience has been dumbed down.    



    This is one aspect that's mentioned in the CR article.   Interesting to note, too, is that the sale of singles has done lots of damage to the sale of albums.  Don't get me wrong, it's been a boon and there's no turning back,but the music industry has had to adjust to the huge loss in revenue (not to mention the younger audiences who don't want to pay a dime ... even for a single).  

    There is no question that album sales are down.  Another interesting fact:  rock fans are the most likely to buy albums.   So if you mess with rock fans ... the thing is, they will still be very loyal. 

    And the closing of the brick / morter stores, slowly over time, is certainly like a "death" in a part of the music sales industry -- and very symbolic in terms of the way the consumer now pursues purchasing music.   It's solitary, there's no bonding with other music fans. 

    Again, there are tremendous advanrtages as well, no one would argue with that.

    But what we're talking about is a different "experience".

    It's not *just* the music itself -- it's the entire experience, as a consumer. 

    Funny, too, but there was a mention of photography in the article :  never has photography (cell phones ...) been so popular, and yet, photography is dying, too.  

    I don't think that would hit home as hard to me if it hadn't been for the most recent time I checked an "art" photography book after I went to an art exhibition.    No longer glossies in the book -- it was all digitized photographs.   $$$ price tag.  Utter crap.  But that's what we're up against, that's what we're being sold.   Note: I did not buy the book. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    The question still seems to be one that's split between commerical interests and artistic interests...

    ...with only a minor overlap where the defined genre of "rock music" exists.

     

    As said here, there are plenty of rock bands around trying to get their share of people's attention.  Commercial exploitation of music artists is nothing new and still goes on unabated.

    The digital revolution has brought one advantage to the smaller, nascent groups - the ability to go directly to the consumer to sell their wares.  If the music is good enough and finds the right audience, then it will succeed...but those are a couple of big 'ifs'.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    I always thought rock 'n' roll died on February 2, 1959, 55 years ago.

    But as far as any musical genre, it's not so much about dying but about losing social significance. We still have Classical, Jazz, Blues, and Country, to name a few, but what is their social significance? Every type of music has its day and then fades, just like old soldiers. Once invented, no musical genre completely dies as long as there are people who play it and/or listen to it. But as a significant social phenomenon, rock is long dead along with other great genres of music.



    Interesting comment.   Social significance has taken on a few meanings, and it probably depends on a case by case response.  (might make a halfway decent thread) 

    What the current music will say about the social times (ie now) well, I'll reserve my comment for another day (or year). :) 

    BTW, there was a editorial in the Globe last week on Sam Cooke; real nice.   It's the 50th anniversary (another 1964 landmark date) of his "A Change is Gonna Come" (speaking of social commentary in music.)   Then today, I heard a couple of black commentators (both excellent) talk about how Sam Cooke sort of stuck his neck out with that song, because it was a risk with his crossover white audience at the time.  

    I read something that concurs with your thoughts re: every genre has its day and it's only part of the normal trend cycle that it will eventually slip under the radar, even though we can be assured it will never actually die. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    I'll say rock is in a bit of a lull.

     

    You still have Bonamassa, Slash, Black Keys, Black Country Communion, Alice in Chains (as an aside, I tried but just cannot get into the new singer. Don't like him alone, and dont' like his 'harmonies' with Jerry).

    And I'm sure plenty other less well known folks are trying.

     

     

    It's just that the money these days is in pop stars lip-synching music someone else composed and recorded.....

    ...or hip-hop/rap

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    I always thought rock 'n' roll died on February 2, 1959, 55 years ago.



    Rock died before bands like the Stones came along? I suspect we have different definitions of rock.....

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    It's been about 20 years but I'm still waiting for the next game changer.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    It's been about 20 years but I'm still waiting for the next game changer.



    Hmm...well, although I said rock wouldn't ever die, I don't know if there will be any more game changers.  It could be that all the different forms of rock are used up now.

    For example, Slash is still making pretty good rock albums, but there's no possible way he's going to come up with anything that sounds new. 

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    I always thought rock 'n' roll died on February 2, 1959, 55 years ago.



    Rock died before bands like the Stones came along? I suspect we have different definitions of rock.....



    Well, I was just making a reference to the "the day the music died." I didn't seriously mean rock 'n' roll died. But I think it can be argued that the founders of rock 'n' roll created something unique and special that was in many ways never topped.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    It's been about 20 years but I'm still waiting for the next game changer.



    Hmm...well, although I said rock wouldn't ever die, I don't know if there will be any more game changers.  It could be that all the different forms of rock are used up now.

    For example, Slash is still making pretty good rock albums, but there's no possible way he's going to come up with anything that sounds new. 

     




    Funny how you mentioned Slash Hfx.  In my mind Guns and Roses and then Nirvana were the last 2 "game changes".

    GNR ended the whole Hair Band thing (thank you) and brough the edge back, while Nirvana said we'll do it our way and F U if you don't like it.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    In response to yogafriend's comment:

    In response to ccnsd's comment:


    Depends on what you call Rock. If you consider Maroon 5 and/or Mumford and Sons or Lorde rock than it is still alive and doing fairly well. I would never consider Lorde rock but according to billboard magazine she is. Heavy metal and hard rock has pretty much gone underground with a few exceptions.



    This is one of the points made, actually.   Hits / singles (which is what 'charts' consist of) are one thing, and the top singles (and most of the people on this forum would never look at a chart in the first place) are predominantly *not* rock: far from it.  Even the singles that are considered "rock" in a chart, and they are a tiny per cent, would be laughed at by most fans of rock music.    So to get hold of decent rock music, right, you would not seek out what's charting, or count on "statistics" to tell you if rock music was dying.   

    It's become the norm for the consumer, then, to seek out the 'rock' music that they like on their own, or want to experiment with, because the music has gone more and more 'underground' for those rock fans.   



    It is easy to sneer at the charts but for a music to stay popular it has to exist on the charts. If you are no longer a chart factor you are no longer on pop radio which means you are dead to most teenagers which is where future audiences come from which sustains a music. Once Rock completely dies on the charts it becomes Jazz. Right now there are plenty of semi popular "indy" acts but without hits that is what they will stay. When I was growing up there would be new acts constantly breaking through and there was a healthy underground which would always pull another set of teenagers in every year. Just 10 years ago there were huge rock bands that you could make fun off but their success allowed the underground to flourish. Creed, Limp Bizkit, Kid Rock , Korn, Staind and Nickelback were huge and I hated all of them but they were gateway into the underground/alternative/indy rock that I loved for teenagers the way Journey, Foreigner and Styx were for me when I was a teenager. I would never have discovered Joy Division, Public Image Limited, Gang of Four or the Replacements without first discovering and loving "corporate rock". 

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    As things get older and more established it is harder to find new frontiers or travel new ground. 

    That there is not a wealth of new ideas or style does not mean something is dead.

    While we are unlikely to have another Elvis, Beatles, Stones, Dylan or Black Sabbath...Rock is not dead or dying.

    It will stay alive as long as people play it. And there's lots of people playing it.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    In response to ccnsd's comment:



    It is easy to sneer at the charts but for a music to stay popular it has to exist on the charts. If you are no longer a chart factor you are no longer on pop radio which means you are dead to most teenagers which is where future audiences come from which sustains a music. Once Rock completely dies on the charts it becomes Jazz. Right now there are plenty of semi popular "indy" acts but without hits that is what they will stay. When I was growing up there would be new acts constantly breaking through and there was a healthy underground which would always pull another set of teenagers in every year. Just 10 years ago there were huge rock bands that you could make fun off but their success allowed the underground to flourish. Creed, Limp Bizkit, Kid Rock , Korn, Staind and Nickelback were huge and I hated all of them but they were gateway into the underground/alternative/indy rock that I loved for teenagers the way Journey, Foreigner and Styx were for me when I was a teenager. I would never have discovered Joy Division, Public Image Limited, Gang of Four or the Replacements without first discovering and loving "corporate rock". 

     



    I like your take on this. Rock/pop music is a commercial venture and would never have lasted without hit records and famous performers. Just because the popular market seems to be flooded with more of the same doesn't mean that something different won't emerge. In fact, the healthier the "corporate" rock market is the more opportunities there may be for less mainstream performers to find a niche in the larger market.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Is Rock Dying? Agree / disagree? True / false?

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    As things get older and more established it is harder to find new frontiers or travel new ground. 

    That there is not a wealth of new ideas or style does not mean something is dead.

    While we are unlikely to have another Elvis, Beatles, Stones, Dylan or Black Sabbath...Rock is not dead or dying.

    It will stay alive as long as people play it. And there's lots of people playing it.



    Playing it and loving the music is one thing.  Purchasing it, supporting it by attending concerts, etc., is another.   Loving music and listening to what you already own is not going to pay someone else's bills.  

    People get upset when a business or restaurant closes; then they admit they haven't set foot in the place or bought anything for 10 years or more.   So, what do they expect?

    The thread is based on an article, and the contention has more to do with rock being "dead ended" if we're not careful, not that the music will actually die and go away.   It won't. 

    Rock will not "close up shop and go out of business" but the business of the music industry has and is still going through a sea change, and the music industry has responded by taking measures to stay afloat, and that equates to staying the course and marketing what's tried and true.  Not a bad thing necessarily, they're just not taking as many risks.    

     

     
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