Part 3 , fine line between "ripping off" and influence....Rolling Stones/ Aerosmith

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Part 3 , fine line between "ripping off" and influence....Rolling Stones/ Aerosmith

    Didn't want to turn the part #2 discussion in a different direction ( not that this is ever a problem) I thought this might be a subject all it's own.

    Unlike the Knack , who basically had the one hit and then were unable to capitalize on thier early success, Aerosmith was a total Rolling Stones "rip off" from the word go. They even covered 'Walking The Dog' a song the Stones covered early in their career. 'Walking The Dog' in all it's versions is one of my all time favorites. Rufus Thomas wrote it and does a great version , this song was covered by just about every garage band in the 60's. My favorite version is still the one by the Trashmen.

    Aerosmith scored a huge hit with a Yardbirds cover 'Train Kept A Rollin'....the Aersmith cover is terrific. Early on the Yardbirds were the less famous Blues influenced band , with the Stones being the big boys...commercially.

    Aerosmith had a good sound, their early LPs are legendary. But the fact remains, right down their appearance they stole ( borrowed?) heavily from the Rolling Stones. With lots more success than the Knack had ripping off the Beatles.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Part 3 , fine line between

    I think Aerosmith's first few albums were reasonably original.  The Yardbirds and Stones influences were certainly evident.  I would describe Aeromith as a hard rock band where the Stones were a rock and roll band.

    Later on you might argue that Guns N Roses were based on Aerosmith, the Black Crowes were based on the Stones etc.  The influences keep getting passed down.

     
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    Re: Part 3 , fine line between

    There's another cover on the "Toys in the attic" album.Here's the original song "Big 10 inch record" by Bull Moose Jackson:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rws_7mLTqj8

     
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    Re: Part 3 , fine line between

    Part 3?   This is getting good.   Great idea.  :)

    Your case is spot on, the main difference being something you said in your comments of Part 2, Zilla, and that was, who could live up to the quality of the Beatles (back then)?   Seems that the way the Knack were "run out of town" is something that would never happen in these days and times.   Back then, the Beatles rip-off was akin to a criminal offense, and they were made to pay.

    I have no fondness for Aerosmith, and therefore, no problem with your analysis, and it was fun to read (and yes, with LOTS more commercial success than the Knack ever had).

    Sure, Aerosmith did a free concert this week, and 100,000 fans showed up on Comm Ave., and I wouldn't criticize them for that, even if it was done to boost sales of their new album.   :P  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Part 3 , fine line between

    I see Aerosmith as more influenced than a rip-off. To my ears, they have a whole different sound. More toward hard rock than the Stones, who keep closer to the blues/soul tradition. Just 'cause Tyler has Jagger's look doesn't mean they sound the same. 

     
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    Re: Part 3 , fine line between

    Back when record stores were the place to go to browse ( before the internet) ....man, those were the days!...I remember a local Strawberries store had arranged the CD bins by separating Heavy Metal from regular Rock. I thought it was kind of funny that they categorized Aerosmith as a Heavy Metal band. They don't really fit that genre. However, the point is well taken that Aerosmith is probably a harder rock band than The Stones....sort of. I mean' who is going to argue that the Stones , the f-ing Rolling Stones do not know how to rock hard? Sure the Stones are influenced heavily by the Blues....but they are so much more than a Blues-Rock band. They can do most any style, some of their Rock is Jazzy ( Can't You Hear Me Knockin') , Some is Chuck Berry ( Carol) , some Soul influenced ( Just My Imagination, My Girl) some pure Blues( pick one , there's plenty to choose from) , some hard Rock ( Sympathy For The Devil), dare I say it?....disco( Miss You), You've got a few other influences in there , too. 

    I wasn't trying to indicate that Aerosmith was a Rolling Stone "immitation"...they weren't versatile enough for that. But, simply, they did model themselves rather heavily after the Rolling Stones. Perhaps more so than any other band.

    The early Asia had a distinct ELP sound to them, this is kind of odd in that the only ELP member was the drummer Carl Palmer. However the singer John Wetton , formerly of U.K. had a voice that was a dead ringer for Greg Lake. I think this is not by accident that Wetton was hired as the singer and bass player for so many bands. Who wouldn't want a lead vocalist that sounds like Greg Lake, he is just awesome.

     
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    Re: Part 3 , fine line between

    I'm just saying that they are part of the same general sound as Stones, Animals, Them, but with less of an R&B approach and more of a harder edged sound. The Stones are not the sole originators of the blues rock sound as the other bands I mentioned also contributed. It probably has to do with the fact that Aerosmith started in the 70's while the others started in the 60's and were part of the sounds that were hip at the time. And I think being an American band rather than English also contributes to the difference in their sound.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

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    Asia has elements of Prog , without being a true Prog Rock band. Just about all of their members were in a Prog Rock "supergroup" at one time.

    The interesting thing about many Prog Rock bands is that they do tend to change members more often than bands in many other genres , also that many of these bands just keep going and never really retire but just keep changing members.

    For example: Uriah Heep changed members so often that Mick Box has long been the only surviving member of the original band. Asia has done many makeovers partly due to Yes and ELP reforming. Jethro Tull had a long career, and an ever changing lineup. Moody Blues have had about as stable a lineup as any Prog Rockers, but even they have had a few changes.

    Funny thing about Asia is that the only member to be a constant is Geoff Downes. But after a multitude of lineup changes the band today is back to it's four founding members, Palmer, Wetton, Howe and Downes. That doesn't happen often.

     
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    Re: Part 3 , fine line between

    "All music is derivative".......

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Part 3 , fine line between

    Going to see Aerosmith tonight.

    To Zilla's point and I say this with all respect. The only thing Aerosmith and the Stone had in common was that Tyler and Jagger looked alike.

    Aerosmith's first 6 albums were dirtier, sexier and harder than anything the Stones ever did. Absolutely the Stones were a big influence on Aerosmith, but I would say that Zep was even a bigger influence. And yes, GnR absoluetly took the 70's Aerosmith to the next level.

    When you are influenced by bands that came before you, there will always be similarities in the music.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Part 3 , fine line between

    I can even understand how Aerosmith might be filed under Heavy Metal because the guitar style leans that way at times.

     
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    Re: Part 3 , fine line between

    Re: Aerosmith influences:

    See: Blodwyn Pig - huge influence on Aerosmith; a direct predecessor, IMO; (started by original Jethro Tull guitarist Mick Abrahams, btw.)

    Also: Humble Pie (Steve Marriott and Steve Tyler have remarkably similar voices), Savoy Brown, and Wishbone Ash (two-guitar attack)

    Fun Fact: Wishbone Ash were first managed by Miles Copeland, founder of I.R.S. Records, and brother of drummer Stewart Copeland.

    The Stones were an obvious influence, but so were the other bands who were trying to be the next Stones.

     

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Part 3 , fine line between

    My favorite Aerosmith albums were the first two.  The first one especially, with the obvious exception of Dream On, had such a loose, sloppy, garage-rock feel to it.  And Tyler's early lyrics were his best.  They had a kind of streetwise, bruised idealism.

     
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    Re: Part 3 , fine line between

    Get Your Wings, Toys in the Attic and Rocks will always be on my list of top 100 albums of all time.

    Post game wrap-up:

    Starting with headliners Aerosmith. They put on a serious show last night at MSG. Tyler was in perfect pitch and has the energy of a 20 year old. And the band was extremely tight. They were like a perfectly timed Swiss watch. And the best part was that they clearly leaned on material prior to the 80's. Sadly they did do Love in an Elevator and Dude Looks Like a Lady (two of my least favorite songs), but thankfully did not do "Don't Want to Miss a Thing".

    I was pleasantly surprised that they did do Combination from Rocks and No More, No More from Toys. My only sadness was that they didn't do Season of Wither from Get Your Wings. Sean Lennon came out and played guitar with backing voals on Come Together. Typical encore of Dream On and Sweet Emotion - two songs that truly stand the test of time.

    As to the opening act - Cheap Trick. This band has never disappointed me live. Robin Zander showed once again that he is the most under-rated great lead singer of all-time. And Rick was his absolutely zany self. Sad that Bun E. no longer tours with them but Rick's son does an excellent job in his place. Brad Whitford from Aerosmith joined them on stage when they did Golden Slumbers and The End from the Abbey Road album. No band does the Beatles like C.T.

    They may have done some schlock in the 80's and 90's, but in my opinion, Aerosmith proved last night that they are the greatest American Rock and Roll Band ever. And Cheap Trick showed that they belong in the RnR Hall of Fame.

     

     
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