Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    There has always been somewhat of a debate as to who was the more important Punk band. I have removed The Clash from this debate for the moment because they were moving away from punk before the 70's even ended.

    Now The Pistols had that one album "Nevermind the Bollocks" which set the world on fire. And the Ramones had a consistent 20 years where they rarely strayed from their roots. Some even say that they were the influence behind the Pistols.

    What say you all.
     
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    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    The Pistols had an image and an attiude that was just the classic punk.
    The Romones had better music, but is music all that matters when it comes to punk.

    I have to go with the Sex Pistols as being the more influence in the punk scene, I can not think of any other band that did just one album that mattered more to music then Never Mind the Bollocks. 

    If you are old enough to remember music in in 78 it was not pretty.  You had a few rockers trying to keep it alive Tom Pretty, Bruce Springsteen and Warren Zevon come to mind.  But none of them had the anger that hits a 13 year old in the gut like the Sex Pistols did.  They saved music from disco.

    They also led me to the only band that really matters the Clash.

    Plus  I learned a new word from the Sex Pistols, had never heard Bollocks before, still say it to this day.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yoshimi25. Show Yoshimi25's posts

    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    As much as I love the Ramones, I think I'd give the edge to the Pistols.  They had such a raw, angry energy with their music that just kinda pulled you in, drug you to the top, ravaged your senses - then you just explode with raging emotions...and you wanted to go kick over a trash can and light it on fire. 

    I was hooked with the first line: "I am the anti-Christ"...

    It's ironic that the creation of the Pistols was probably influenced itself by the growing punk scene.  If I recall correctly (and feel free to correct me if I do not recall correctly) they were a put-together band - though I think their manager (cannot recall his name) had a hard time controlling the band members.  I remember reading about how the manager booked the portion of the US tour through some of the more conservative areas of the country just to create controversy.   In a sense, while they may not have had as strong of an influence in music like the Ramones, they did bring a great deal of attention to punk music to areas of this nation that had more cows than clubs...



     
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    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    My biggest problem with the sex pistols is they couldn't play their instruments. Gotta give it to the Ramones. Even if the music itself wasn't the focus of punk, it was still music, and playing pissss poor, then calling it political commentary isn't much of an excuse.
     
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    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    I'll say The Sex Pistols were greater. Just an observation of someone who was never into the Punk rock scene.
     
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    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    In Response to Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day):
    [QUOTE]As much as I love the Ramones, I think I'd give the edge to the Pistols.  They had such a raw, angry energy with their music that just kinda pulled you in, drug you to the top, ravaged your senses - then you just explode with raging emotions...and you wanted to go kick over a trash can and light it on fire.  I was hooked with the first line: "I am the anti-Christ"... It's ironic that the creation of the Pistols was probably influenced itself by the growing punk scene.  If I recall correctly (and feel free to correct me if I do not recall correctly) they were a put-together band - though I think their manager (cannot recall his name) had a hard time controlling the band members.  I remember reading about how the manager booked the portion of the US tour through some of the more conservative areas of the country just to create controversy.   In a sense, while they may not have had as strong of an influence in music like the Ramones, they did bring a great deal of attention to punk music to areas of this nation that had more cows than clubs...
    Posted by Yoshimi25[/QUOTE]

    The managers name was Malcom McClaren and he was instrumental in putting together several bands of the era.

    People should remember that Glen Matlock played bass on Bollocks - not Sid.

    IMO - American Punk and English Punk were two different things which just happened to appeal to the same listening crowd.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yoshimi25. Show Yoshimi25's posts

    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    In Response to Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day) : The managers name was Malcom McClaren and he was instrumental in putting together several bands of the era. People should remember that Glen Matlock played bass on Bollocks - not Sid. IMO - American Punk and English Punk were two different things which just happened to appeal to the same listening crowd.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    Couldn't remember McClaren's name...but I did remember about Matlock.   No excuse for not remembering McClaren...I could have just looked it up.  

    This one is not too bright.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    Some say Matlock was thrown out because he was a fan of McCartney and the Beatles

     
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    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    Love both bands (and still feel neither can tie the Clash's (early stuff) shoes). But I would say for pure punk the Pistols were more of the pioneer. the Ramones used a lot more melody and that Beach boys influence. The Pistols were just pure raw
     
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    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    So let's try and define what exactly Punk Rock is. Obviously punk did evolve over the years.

    We have discussed the roots of Punk; The Who, The Kinks, etc. And we saw where The Stooges and the NY Dolls redefined that Garage sound.

    So is punk that Raw, angry angst that the Pistols gave us on Bollocks or is it based on the speed and uptempo that the Ramones gave us?

    My personal take on this is the Ramones are a far more important band and that the Pistols just follwed their lead but with an angrier tone.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    The Ramones played Punk Rock better than anyone, and lasted longer than any Punk band had the right to ( a testament to their wider appeal), but the Sex pistols put Punk Rock in the face of the people it was aimed at....the authority figures of the day, parents, the queen, parliment , police, the Pope...you name it. If it was legit and powerful and had any authority the Pistols were against it.

    The Ramones made better music, the Sex Pistols made a stronger and more lasting political and social statement....and they had a bigger impact on the fashion part of it. Which is what McLaren was trying to achieve anyway...a new style of clothing fashion to sell in his boutiques.
     
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    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    Did the sex pistols really make a meaningful contribution to the political dialogue? I am always skepical of political thought sung from the stage. Musicians are just that, musicians, and rarely great political or philosophical thinkers.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yoshimi25. Show Yoshimi25's posts

    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    Well, it depends on how you define "political" and "philosophical" - and it also depends on how valid one thinks a political or philosophical statement is.  There are those, for example, who feel that if a statement of such calibre comes from someone with a high-school education, then their opinion is not a valid one because they lack seven years of Art History at Ivy League College (note: this is not directed at any poster on this forum). 

    "God Save the Queen" (by the Pistols) was one of the most banned songs in Britian's history, though I think the band itself wondered why anyone would call them a "political" band. 

    The thing with musicians is that they don't sing about what you (and again, I mean the "royal you" - not anyone on this forum) think is political...they sing about what they think is political.  As an example, the majority of U2's American fans probably have no clue what "Sunday, Bloody Sunday" is...nor do they care.  And if they did know, they still wouldn't care because it doesn't affect them.  But it affects U2 - and is significant to their Irish fans.   Does that make it a non-political song because it has no affect on American fans, or because it holds no significance here in the States?   "New Years Day" doesn't affect fans in the States either....but is a very significant political statement.  

    Musicians express their thoughts, ideas, and philosophies through their music.  One may not agree with it, but that does not invalidate what they are saying.  Or millions may agree with it, but that does not make what they are saying true.   Music is a personal experience...sometimes shared by fifty people, sometimes shared by millions of people.  

    Did the Pistols make a meaningful contribution to the political dialogue?  Well, the political dialogue of the 70's was anti-establishment, anti-war, and anti-calling-soft-rock-rock-and-roll (well, perhaps not so much this last one...). Yes, they carried their anti-establishment attitude on tour, and in their songs, and in the controversy they caused.   Other bands did it better, and longer,  but that still does not invalidate the splash the Pistols made. 

    My own worthless opinion, of course.

    As for defining punk...well, other than the rather vauge "it is what it is", or the rather simple "three chords and the truth"....maybe I'll just go with this:




    This is from a fan magazine called Sideburn that was out in the 70's....

    Everytime I thought of a way to define punk, I thought of other examples that fit the same definition that were not punk music. 

    If anything, I think I'd say Punk is stripped down music that is existential in it's attitude. 
     
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    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    I don't think any band has ever really contributed anything of true value to the political discussion. They may say things people agree with, in the way a campaign ad or jingo strikes a chord with people...but it is purely a reductive statement. Now I am not saying contributing requires an advanced degree. Sometimes the most astute observers have no education at all. But songs and poetry are terrible mediums for examining complex ideas. It is like comedy in that way. Comedy is not a terribly good medium for truthful examination of ideas, because the groundrules are different than a debate, conversation or book. Musicians and comedians may say things you agree with, and this may make you feel good. But if you are allowing them to lead you anywhere political, that is a problem. One of the most vile legacies of the 60s (and keep in mind I am a liberal) is this notion that music should be the source of our politics.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    Punk Rock was invented by avant-garde artists in the U.S.

    It became the anthem of a generation in Great Britain. It became a style and a sub-genre only in the U.S.

    English kids embraced Punk for the same reasons they embraced Rock'nRoll about 15 earlier. Kids in the U.S. had precious little to really rebel against in the 70's ( after Vietnam), a large portion of American youth had it really good compared to the youth in England. Punk became a way of thumbing your nose at the royal family, the politicians and the fact that young kids in England (if not wealthy) probably would not get a much in the way of employment unless they joined a punk band.

    In the U.S. , Punk Rock was something you liked , because you hated Disco, you hated "soft rock" and songs like "Billy, Don't Be a Hero" and the songs of Tony Orlando and Dawn, the Captain and Tenille and the Osmond Brothers made your skin crawl...made your hair stand up...possibly even made you lose your lunch ( much like today's pop artists like Katy Perry and Rhianna make you want to throw up).The "political" or "social" ramifications of Punk Rock were mostly lost on American kids. We just wanted something "real" and something " loud" and something " angry" to shake radio out of the sickening stagnant trend toward "kissy" and 'lovey-dovey", "nice" , "homogenized" rock(?) that was being force fed to us.

    We wanted good , honest Rock'nRoll and the old standbys were becoming a little stale...we needed Iggy Pop,The Damned, the Dead Boys, The Ramones, the Clash, Johnny Rotten ,Elvis Costello, Graham Parker, Joe Jackson, David Byrne and Devo ( Punk and New Wave) , something a little more exciting than another song about a lost love or "shaking your boo#y"...something that was new, exciting , different....and oh yeah...something our parents hated even more than Heavy Metal.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    The Ramones all the way for me. I don't like the Sex Pistols but I love The Ramones. Does that make sense?

    The Sex Pistols were The Monkees of punk, and I mean no disrespect to the Monkees, who were a much better band.

    To my ears, the sound of punk came from The Ramones.
     
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    Re: Ramones vs The Sex Pistols (Artists of the Day)

    Interesting take Zilla, although I would have to disagree with you, at least as far as I saw things from my vantage point from 75-78. Ford told NYC to drop dead and half The Bronx was actually burning down. So I like to think that I saw and lived the same as my Brit cousins.
     

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