RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks

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    RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks

    Many of you feel that the  RnR Hall of Fame is a farce, but just for fun, who are your top five picks to be inducted from the list below?  Also, if I've made an error, and any of the artists have been inducted, please speak up.  The list below represents the list of nominees from the past two years.  Also feel free to write in your own picks among musicians that are not on the list, of course. 

    Bad Company
    Beastie Boys
    Bon Jovi
    Chic
    The Cure
    Cheap Trick
    Chicago
    Depeche Mode
    Donovan
    E.L.O.
    Peter Frampton
    Hall and Oates
    Heart
    Journey
    Foreigner
    J. Geils Band
    LL Cool J
    Laura Nyro
    Donna Summer
    Joe Tex
    Chuck Willis
    KISS
    Rush
    Moody Blues
    T-Rex
    Public Enemy
    Red Hot Chili Peppers
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks

    I'd put them all in.

    Well , maybe not L.L. Cool J ,Public Enemy or the Disco singers and bands... This isn't "Rock."

    I'm just that kind of guy.

    What's a Hall of Fame with omissions?

    It's a popularity contest, that's what.

    Might as well leave it up to the mindless American Idol panel and viewers.

    But I'm still carrying a chip on my shoulder about Pete Rose not being in the Baseball Hall of Fame. I know, I know, I know all about the gambling and the fake autographs...he's a jerk, no doubt...but who suffers most , Rose or the fans?

    When you make a judgement that an artist you don't like should be excluded, aren't you playing God? Or at the very least, aren't you forcing your tastes on others?

    Put every famous Rock act in there. But restrict it to "Rock" music. I love Soul , hate Disco and Rap... let them get their own Hall.
     
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    i really don't even know...
    ELO definitely...chicago definitely...
    cheap trick, journey, foreigner, heart iffy...
    the cure did a real lot for moods and driving drum beats...so, probably...
    hall and oates were very good for the type of fluff that they created...
    i love moody blues, but i don't think so...

    i dont think any hip hop group should be inducted...even if the Beastie Boys got their start in the NY punk scene.
     
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    Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks

    Moody Blues
    Hall And Oates
    Rush
    Heart
    J Geils Band
     


     
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    In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks:
    [QUOTE]I'd put them all in. Well , maybe not L.L. Cool J ,Public Enemy or the Disco singers and bands... This isn't "Rock." I'm just that kind of guy. What's a Hall of Fame with omissions? It's a popularity contest, that's what. Might as well leave it up to the mindless American Idol panel and viewers. But I'm still carrying a chip on my shoulder about Pete Rose not being in the Baseball Hall of Fame. I know, I know, I know all about the gambling and the fake autographs...he's a jerk, no doubt...but who suffers most , Rose or the fans? When you make a judgement that an artist you don't like should be excluded, aren't you playing God? Or at the very least, aren't you forcing your tastes on others? Put every famous Rock act in there. But restrict it to "Rock" music. I love Soul , hate Disco and Rap... let them get their own Hall.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]I was in the mood for one of your rants today, and you did not disappoint me!  One of your best!
    Thank you!
     
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks

    Yes, they should all get in...

    ...including the rap artists.

    Hate to break it to ya, zilla, but rap is indeed just another derivative of rock n' roll...as opposed to, say, RnB or soul (gospel + RnB), both of which pre-dated and influenced rock n' roll.  As for disco, most of those acts were truly one-hit wonders and not in the same league as Donna Summer or Chic (or Bee Gees).

    Is it really necessary to have a "Pop Hall Of Fame"...?  Every time I go to the record store, the category is "Rock/Pop".

    Personally, though I haven't been there, there seems to me something just a little non-rock n' roll-ish about the hall of fame to begin with.  I mean, it's nice they have all those collectibles and displays, but so does the Hard Rock Cafe.  The Sex Pistols had a point, however ineloquently they put it.
     
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    Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks

    My top 5 from Yoga's list (too hard to remember any more notable omissions):

    The Cure
    Chicago
    J. Geils Band
    Rush
    Moody Blues
     
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    P.S.  And I said the above with the notion that I don't particularly like all the bands on that list.

    P.P.S.  At first I questioned Neil Diamond, too, but his work as a songwriter alone is really enough to merit admission, unlike, say Barry Manilow who started and stayed an adult contempo artist.
     
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    P.P.P.S.

    DEEP PURPLE...!!!!

    ...for the love of jehovah and the flying spaghetti monster, let them in already.
     
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    Moody Blues
    Chicago Transit Authority
    ELP
    Yes
    Smiths

    I know the last three were not on your list, but like Deep Purple, I think they are just glaring omissions.

     
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    In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks:
    [QUOTE]Yes, they should all get in... ...including the rap artists. Hate to break it to ya, zilla, but rap is indeed just another derivative of rock n' roll...as opposed to, say, RnB or soul (gospel + RnB), both of which pre-dated and influenced rock n' roll.  Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]

    i think you have to draw the line at some point...everything comes from something, but eventually that something becomes big enough to be its own thing...rock certainly did not just rise out of the proverbial primordial soup.

    hip hop/rap is its own thing entirely. it started out blending the attitudes and the styles of rock with something different, but the fact that it relies so heavily on sampling and not actually composition of music I feel would disqualify it. hip hop artists or rappers should not get into the R&R hall of fame because they can put words to someone else's music. with the exception of very few, such as rza and dr. dre (sometimes eminem), the vast majority of rappers DO NOT produce their own tracks (and even more rare, compose the music they produce). The Roots are the only exception IMHO.

    IF ANYTHING, rick reuben should be in the HOF.

    Think of it as a family tree...and when one branch gets big enough, it starts its own family. hip hop has its own family.
     
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    Rush
    The Cure
    ELO
    Chicago

    The Pixies

     
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    Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks

    While I agree it's a bit "un-RnR-like" to have the/a Hall of Fame, it's quite a bit more than "just" a place where musicians are inducted.  It is dedicated to preservation and conservation, and is becoming the corporate memory for the rock music that has shaped our culture and history.  Maybe if they *didn't* make such a deal out of having musicians inducted, the place would have been a lot better off.  !!!   As time goes by, the collection(s) are going to get richer and richer.  I'll bet some of the exhibits that showcase RnR against our nation's history are really awesome.

    So back to the inductee question:
    J Geils and Heart

     
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    In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks : i think you have to draw the line at some point...everything comes from something, but eventually that something becomes big enough to be its own thing...rock certainly did not just rise out of the proverbial primordial soup. hip hop/rap is its own thing entirely. it started out blending the attitudes and the styles of rock with something different, but the fact that it relies so heavily on sampling and not actually composition of music I feel would disqualify it. hip hop artists or rappers should not get into the R&R hall of fame because they can put words to someone else's music. with the exception of very few, such as rza and dr. dre (sometimes eminem), the vast majority of rappers DO NOT produce their own tracks (and even more rare, compose the music they produce). The Roots are the only exception IMHO. IF ANYTHING, rick reuben should be in the HOF. Think of it as a family tree...and when one branch gets big enough, it starts its own family. hip hop has its own family.
    Posted by phsmith8[/QUOTE]

    I can see your point, but I have to disagree, respectfully.

    All popular music is derivative to some degree of what came before it, so that family tree ends up looking more like a bush than a tree.  Rap/Hip-Hop is a somewhat natural derivation of the rock n' roll/RnB of the 50s inasmuch as parents hate it now as much parents in the 50s hated Elvis and cursed RnR as "jungle music".

    There's a youtube video out there of a band on stage performing a medley of different songs that all use the same three or four chords with only the slightest variations.  Again, even the riff for "Smells Like Teen Spirit", supposedly from one of the most important bands of the past twenty years, is almost a note-for-note lift of Boston's "More Than A Feeling" riff 15 years earlier.  It's no accident.

    With rap/hip-hop, yes, they used samples of other work, but it's no accident that they borrowed those samples from rock, funk, jazz, disco, etc. and even other rap songs, because...from where else would they get them?  Even "No Sleep 'Til Brooklyn" has no sample, but instead has Kerry King of Slayer(!) playing the riff.

    I'll also submit that for rap/hip-hop to be truly on its own, it would have to have derivatives of its own, but instead it has sub-genres like rock does: trip hop, gangsta, old school, hardcore, freestyle, etc.  Like many musical styles, the music is a product of the surrounding culture which in turn feeds back into the culture, and so on.  The same goes in the art world...there's always a connection to the past...the best ones just know how to hide it better.
     
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    i have come to the conclusion that rap/hip hop was directly influenced by RnB and Soul, not rock. the grooves, the melodies, samples, the storytelling...all of it were soul and RnB.

    the first time rock was incorporated in hip hop was walk this way, but the samples in hip hop were direct soul and RnB samples.

    you listed RnB and Soul music as precursers and influences to rock...i would argue that hip hop/rap took those same influecnes, but went in an entirely different direction. as opposed to being influenced directly by rock. 

    sure, more rock elements and attitude were incorporated over the years, but that is true of any genre (or sub-genre)

     on another note, how can they even qualify for the HOF if they don't even write or play music? and don't even sing?

     
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    It's a crime against humanity that Deep Purple and ELP aren't in the Hall.  Two of the most talented, and most beloved, rock acts of all time...makes no sense whatsoever.  Except that apparently Rolling Stone Magazine must control the Hall, because they have always detested these bands, won't even include them in their Album Guide books...just a sad, sick thing.

    I also thing BOC should be in, but I understand why they're not.

    Surprised that J Geils Band isn't in there. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

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    In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks:
    [QUOTE]i have come to the conclusion that rap/hip hop was directly influenced by RnB and Soul, not rock. the grooves, the melodies, samples, the storytelling...all of it were soul and RnB. the first time rock was incorporated in hip hop was walk this way, but the samples in hip hop were direct soul and RnB samples. you listed RnB and Soul music as precursers and influences to rock...i would argue that hip hop/rap took those same influecnes, but went in an entirely different direction. as opposed to being influenced directly by rock.  sure, more rock elements and attitude were incorporated over the years, but that is true of any genre (or sub-genre)  on another note, how can they even qualify for the HOF if they don't even write or play music? and don't even sing?
    Posted by phsmith8[/QUOTE]

    OK, I'll agree with you there.  Rap IS more clearly a product of RnB influences, whereas rock n' roll incorporated RnB and jump blues along with country, folk and rockabilly.  But if that is the case, does that mean that the original Motown acts from the 60s don't fall under the rock n' roll umbrella?

    Please correct me if I'm misstating your position, but to prove your theory, it would mean that RnB/Soul developed independently from rock n' roll up until the point that rap entered the picture.  I believe that's true, but I still don't think they were exclusive of each other, i.e., developed in a vacuum.  There are many influences; some are clearly more direct than others.

    Producers are in the HoF.  Lyricists are in the HoF.  Rappers create some of the most complex lyrics out there, and yes, some of them compose and play their own music - Beasties, Wu-Tang, Tribe Called Quest.  Some of the production values in hip-hop are world class.  The bass line for Grandmaster Flash's "White Lines" uses another rapper's live cover version of a new wave song called "Cavern" by Liquid Liquid.  And lest we forget, Blondie may have had the first crossover rap-rock song with "Rapture" in 1980...
     
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    In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks : OK, I'll agree with you there.  Rap IS more clearly a product of RnB influences, whereas rock n' roll incorporated RnB and jump blues along with country, folk and rockabilly.  But if that is the case, does that mean that the original Motown acts from the 60s don't fall under the rock n' roll umbrella? Please correct me if I'm misstating your position, but to prove your theory, it would mean that RnB/Soul developed independently from rock n' roll up until the point that rap entered the picture.  I believe that's true, but I still don't think they were exclusive of each other, i.e., developed in a vacuum.  There are many influences; some are clearly more direct than others. Producers are in the HoF.  Lyricists are in the HoF.  Rappers create some of the most complex lyrics out there, and yes, some of them compose and play their own music - Beasties, Wu-Tang, Tribe Called Quest.  Some of the production values in hip-hop are world class.  The bass line for Grandmaster Flash's "White Lines" uses another rapper's live cover version of a new wave song called "Cavern" by Liquid Liquid.  And lest we forget, Blondie may have had the first crossover rap-rock song with "Rapture" in 1980...
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]

    for the motown thing, i dont think they started out as RnR but some of them made their way into it...IMO, of course...

    rappers are poets, but there is so much more than that given the way they use their voice and inflection to alter the mood of a song, and oftentimes produce polyrhythms with the beats through use of alliteration, assonance and internal rhymes.

    glad we could at least sort of agree! mucho respecto senor matty.
     
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    In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks : for the motown thing, i dont think they started out as RnR but some of them made their way into it...IMO, of course... rappers are poets, but there is so much more than that given the way they use their voice and inflection to alter the mood of a song, and oftentimes produce polyrhythms with the beats through use of alliteration, assonance and internal rhymes. glad we could at least sort of agree! mucho respecto senor matty.
    Posted by phsmith8[/QUOTE]

    I think we agree more than we disagree, if previous posts are any indication.  I'm sure there are purists out there (not me) too who would argue that rapping isn't poetry, but that's another topic.

    My larger point was merely about how rap has somewhat morphed into the modern version of what rock n' roll was in the 50s - rebellious, earthy, teenage-driven, and generally maligned by adults.  In both cases, it was the culture that advanced the music beyond its original scope and made it into a phenomenon.
     
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    In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks : I was in the mood for one of your rants today, and you did not disappoint me!  One of your best! Thank you!  
    Posted by yogafriend[/QUOTE]

    Are you saying my rants are becoming legendary?

    Notice how my rant started a nice friendly argument about whether Rap and Hip Hop are subgenres of Rock or not?

    Some of my rants about baseball tend to ruffle feathers epecially when I mention racial predjudice. Which , sadly, rears it's ugly head often , sometimes it's subtle , sometimes it's a sledgehammer in the head. My love of music by artists like the Temptations, Muddy Waters,Howlin' Wolf ,Jimi Hendrix, Robert Cray , etc. has been an essential part of my life. When I say I do not like Rap or Hip Hop , it has nothing to do with race, I feel it is an offshoot of Rock/disco/soul ...but it is a music that can possibly be only fully appreciated by people of the urban persuassion ( city folk), I can not relate. I love the country (not Country music), I love grassy fields , winding country roads , chickens and cows and peaceful Sunday afternoons at home. I dislike Rap because it all about urban life. Give me Neil Young and John Mellencamp...that's more my speed.
     
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    My take on this soul/rap/rock/country/jazz/pop debate is that it is impossible to extricate one element and call it simply rock. To my ears, it's all pop music. Given enough time, you would be able to find "samples" of past forms of music in every new form that followed. I've always said that the blues is just one song with endless variations. In other words, there is no "pure" form of pop music. I prefer to see it as a gumbo. Throw it all together and enjoy y'all.
     
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    In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks : Are you saying my rants are becoming legendary? Notice how my rant started a nice friendly argument about whether Rap and Hip Hop are subgenres of Rock or not? Some of my rants about baseball tend to ruffle feathers epecially when I mention racial predjudice. Which , sadly, rears it's ugly head often , sometimes it's subtle , sometimes it's a sledgehammer in the head. My love of music by artists like the Temptations, Muddy Waters,Howlin' Wolf ,Jimi Hendrix, Robert Cray , etc. has been an essential part of my life. When I say I do not like Rap or Hip Hop , it has nothing to do with race, I feel it is an offshoot of Rock/disco/soul ...but it is a music that can possibly be only fully appreciated by people of the urban persuassion ( city folk), I can not relate. I love the country (not Country music), I love grassy fields , winding country roads , chickens and cows and peaceful Sunday afternoons at home. I dislike Rap because it all about urban life. Give me Neil Young and John Mellencamp...that's more my speed.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    You explained yourself quite nicely my friend. 
     
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    Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks

    Here are the biggest omissions from the Hall of Shame as I see it. And everyone does give compelling arguments. But:

    Deep Purple - besides being a groundbreaking band in progressive hard rock/heavy metal, it is thier song that was probably the first rock song (even to this date) that is learned by a kid on guitar. Smoke on the Water.

    King Crimson - they have let Genesis in, but King Crimson was the band who first showed up with it. They are the innovators.

    ELP - They took Prog. Rock to another level; turned it heavy at times and crossed bridges with it.

    NY Dolls - They influenced two specific genres of music - NY Club Scene which became punk and also Glam.

    Runaways - There are no GoGo's, Bangles, Donna's or any other all chick band without the Runaways.

    Suzi Quatro - There are no Runaways without Suzi Q.

    Cheap Trick - They were the band who merged the Beatles with Led Zeppelin. (Sorry Zilla). They were the biggest influnce on Pop metal which ruled the entire 80's decade.

    As for the Hip Hop/Rap debate and whether it belongs. Matty's point of Rap being an extension of Rock is absolute. Rap Metal is considered a RnR genre which has done well. Linkin Park is an example.

    However, I do not believe pure rap/hip hop belongs for the simple reason that there will be a Rap/Hip Hop Hall of Fame one day and I can guarantee that not one of these Rock Bands will ever be inducted.

    I understand Run/DMC - they did some good crossover stuff. The same with NWA, Public Enemy and a few others. You can here the rock influence in their music. But JZ, Puffy Pizzhead and the rest have no place ever going into the Hall.
     
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    In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks : I think we agree more than we disagree, if previous posts are any indication.  I'm sure there are purists out there (not me) too who would argue that rapping isn't poetry, but that's another topic. My larger point was merely about how rap has somewhat morphed into the modern version of what rock n' roll was in the 50s - rebellious, earthy, teenage-driven, and generally maligned by adults.  In both cases, it was the culture that advanced the music beyond its original scope and made it into a phenomenon.
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]

    well put sir, agreed.
     
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    In Response to Re: RnR Hall of Fame - Your picks:
    [QUOTE]Suzi Quatro - There are no Runaways without Suzi Q.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    Oh yeah...she was about as cool as it gets.


     

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