Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    This thread was triggered by some comments jesseyeric made on the new voting thread about Kashmir 'far surpassing' Stairway.  But it also goes back to some earlier discussions I've had about Kashmir with others on the forum.

    First let me point out that like many others, I have had my fill of Stairway due to the relentless radio saturation over the years.  But I still think it's one of the indisputable classics of rock, and a very influential piece of work with its light-and-shade, acoustic-electric, buildup-and-payoff structure.

    Kashmir, to me, is an interesting and original piece of work, but the big problem I have with it, musically, is that it's monotonous.  I felt that way the first time I heard it and I still do.  It settles into that synthesized string progression and it pretty much stays there, a trance-inducing dirge.  Not a single guitar lick from Mr. Page.

    There are three other epic songs on Physical Graffiti-In My Time of Dying, In the Light and Ten Years Gone.  To me they are all more interesting musically than Kashmir.

    If you swapped Stairway and Kashmir on their albums what would be the result?  I think it would make Zep IV a lesser album and Graffiti a greater album.

    Obviously I'm very prejudiced about the whole thing.  I would really like the fans of Kashmir to elaborate on what makes it such a great song for them and why they rate it above Stairway, if they do.      
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    Well, nut, I can't answer your question the way it was asked, but eschewing a "technical" analysis, I think Kasimir holds up primarily for the reason you state. People want something that isn't Stairway. It's nothing more than the passage of time (and the residue of those damnamble FM radio stations) that makes it possible for Mike Myers to get mileage out of a joke that won't allow him to play Stairway to Heaven in a music store.

    This whole conversation is a non-starter.

    Just as a matter of taste, I would be happier than a pig in slop if I never heard either song ever again . . .   not because they're not wonderful songs, but because enough is enough . . .  and because my generation has been having this discussion for nigh on 40 years.

    Look at it this way: Kasimir is a song that an awful lot of people might never have heard, had it not been for the incredible FM explosion that was Stairway to Heaven. It may or may not be a better song (I think it is, simply because -- like many of us -- I've overdosed on Stairway), but you could also turn that argument on its head . . .

    I mean . . .   think about it . . .

    If it hadn't been for the wild, weird success of Frampton Comes Alive, we might never have been subjected to I'm in You.

    Think about it.


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    Kashmir
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    different songs...different vibes...neither really do much for me any more in spite of their original greatness.

    Give me The Lemon Song, Since I've Been Lovin You or When The Levee Breaks any time....

    If pressed, I would say Kashmir is more of a worldly hashy dirge and Stairway is more textbook british hard rock (one of the finest examples on record).  The former is a more progressive style, while the latter birthed a million similar hard rock ballads.  I mean, how many millions of kids have tried to master those opening bars on guitar...!? 

    But it's probably no accident that Page and Plant ignored Stairway for their No Quarter reunion performance in favor of the groovier tracks.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    Interesting question. I'll say that Kashmir is without question my favorite Zeppelin song. And it's involved in one of the funniest moments of "Fast Times at Ridgemont High," which some of you might remember.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    The joke behind Kashmir in Fast Times is pretty funny (and let's face it, Damone carries that movie -- am I right?), but when I think of that movie, the song that immediately leaps to mind is The Cars' Moving in Stereo.

    Who's with me?



     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from leafswin27. Show leafswin27's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    Never a fan of either song at all... But loved Fast TimesWink
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    One thing is for sure, Kashmir never held my attention as much once Page allowed P-Doody to do a rap rendition of it with all new lyrics for the Godzilla movie.

    I love both songs as they are part of the fabric of my growing up. I was 13 when Zoso was released and 17 when P.G. was released. But as mentioned before, there are certain Zep songs which are more important to me. Stairway was outright played out, far more than Kashmir. And by the time Kashmir was released, my experimentation with my chemistry set Tongue out allowed Kashmir to take me to places that I had never been.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from spy1. Show spy1's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    Hfxsoxnut Wrote: "It settles into that synthesized string progression and it pretty much stays there, a trance-inducing dirge.  Not a single guitar lick from Mr. Page..."

    Dude, that's just flat-out wrong.  That "string progression" is in fact primarily backed by GUITAR strings, as is the walk-down to the "All I see..." section.  Page's genius as a composer led him to layer track after track to the point where instruments aren't always recognizable.  

    I think that first of all, the two tracks can't be compared on any other level than that they were written by the same two guys.  "Stairway" was an utterly unique song that had no predeecessor--so great that it's been played into cliche-dom.  Nobody wants to hear Beethoven's 5th anymore either.

    "Kashmir"  is another song that had no rock inspiration other than Page's own compositional brilliance...it may be trance-like and yes, even monotonous, but Page was all about the groove (even their most rocking songs were often repetative riffs).  What's amazing about that song to me is that just as you're lulled into that groove, it releases into the second part, which takes you to a completely different place.  It wouldn't be as powerful if the primary riff weren't simple.

    One man's opinion, but to me, people REALLY miss the boat when they focus on Page as a guitar hero--he was really a composer/producer, and WAY better at those things than most others (and, yes, as much as I love his playing, way better at those things than playing the guitar).
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    In Response to Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir:
    [QUOTE]The joke behind Kashmir in Fast Times is pretty funny (and let's face it, Damone carries that movie -- am I right?), but when I think of that movie, the song that immediately leaps to mind is The Cars' Moving in Stereo . Who's with me?
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]
    Not so much the song ... but the scene!! Man, that scene ... excuse me for a second.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    In Response to Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir:
    [QUOTE]Interesting question. I'll say that Kashmir is without question my favorite Zeppelin song. And it's involved in one of the funniest moments of "Fast Times at Ridgemont High," which some of you might remember.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    Trivia tidbit: that scene is actually a continuity error: Damone suggests to Rat, "...play anything from side one of Led Zeppelin 4."  Of course, Kashmir did not appear on Led Zeppelin 4.

    Still an awesome flick, though, with endless trivia nuggets to feast upon...the supporting cast alone is like a who's who of hollywood...

    ...and could we ever hear "Moving in Stereo" or "Somebody's Baby" the same way again...??
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    In Response to Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir : Trivia tidbit: that scene is actually a continuity error: Damone suggests to Rat, "...play anything from side one of Led Zeppelin 4."  Of course, Kashmir did not appear on Led Zeppelin 4. Still an awesome flick, though, with endless trivia nuggets to feast upon...the supporting cast alone is like a who's who of hollywood... ...and could we ever hear "Moving in Stereo" or "Somebody's Baby" the same way again...??
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]


    Exactly, it's on "Physical Graffiti." But I think that was supposed to be the joke. Rat was such a nerd he didn't get the album right.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    I like both, but in the end Stairway gets the slight edge. I think it's more complex.

    I think what has helped me with Zeppelin is that I went throught a spell in the 1990s where I didn't listen to them. When I finally started playing their stuff again, it sounded fresh, even Stairway.

    But you're really splitting hairs when you're talking about the two songs.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from phsmith8. Show phsmith8's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    he's probably still in his hard rock phase


    remember, when you're about to make out with a girl put on side one of led zeppelin 4


    i watched that movie literally yesterday


    oh, and jessey, when i was 13 years old, my friend gave me the Godzilla soundtrack, and the song "come with me" (the aforementioned kashmir rip with page and puff daddy) was what made me really dig deeper into led zeppelin's catalogue and discover so much more than what i knew...i didnt care much for puffy's verses though


    jamiroquoi and rage had notable tracks on that cd
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    I do PH and the scary part is that it all happened when the album was first released. Sometimes this forum does remind me that I am an old geezer.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    I like everything Led Zeppelin ever did.

    My favorite , however, is 'In The Evening.'

    I'm weird like that. Most of my favorite songs are not the 'most popular' ones.

    Favorite Beatles song is 'Glass Onion.'
    Favorite Stones song is 'Can't You Hear Me Knocking'
    Favorite Black Sabbath song is 'Junior's Eyes.'
    Favorite Deep Purple Song is  'Knockin' at Your Back Door.'
    Favorite Bob Dylan song is 'Ballad Of A Thin Man.'
    Favorite Jefferson Airplane song is '3/5's Of a Mile in Ten Seconds.'
    Favorite Doors song is 'People Are Strange.'
    Favorite Tom Petty song is ' Into The Great Wide Open.'
    Favorite Neil Young song is 'Cortez the Killer.'
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from AGUY1. Show AGUY1's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    I'd take Stairway over Kashmir, it's just more interesting to me.
    I avoided the song like the plague whenever it came on the radio and as a result, I can actually enjoy it now.  I must have gone at least 10 years without actually hearing the whole thing.  Funny thing, I said to myself I would never ever learn how to play it and finely said, oh what the !&%$.  I actually grew to like it again. 

    I once saw Frank Zappa in the late 80s play it.  He had this 4 piece brass section play the solo note to note and it was really cool.  I doubt you could do something like that with Kashmir.  Supposedly, Zappa had never heard the song and when he finely did, everybody in his band already knew the song so they decided to play it.  Not sure if that’s true or not.  I’m a little perplexed how someone in the business like Zappa could have never heard it at least once.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    Sometimes you have to do a little self-examination.  Probably my biggest problem with Kashmir was that I was such a guitar junkie, and I couldn't believe there was an 8 minute plus long Zeppelin song with no solo from Jimmy.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    In Response to Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir:
    [QUOTE]different songs...different vibes...neither really do much for me any more in spite of their original greatness. Give me The Lemon Song, Since I've Been Lovin You or When The Levee Breaks any time....
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]

    Those are all great, I was just listening to The Lemon Song done live by The Black Crowes with Jimmy.  The guitar on that song is so good, it's evil.  The Ocean is also a masterpiece.  And The Rover.  
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    A-ah-ahh-ah, ah-ah-ahh-ah

    Greatest opening ever.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir

    In Response to Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Stairway to Heaven vs. Kashmir : Those are all great, I was just listening to The Lemon Song done live by The Black Crowes with Jimmy.  The guitar on that song is so good, it's evil.  The Ocean is also a masterpiece.  And The Rover.  
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    I'm sure you know this, but apparently they tried to have at least one "centerpiece" track in every album, usually an extended piece which they could use for lengthy jams. 

    So for instance, Zep I - Dazed & Confused; Zep II - Lemon Song; Zep III - Since I've Been Loving You; Zep IV - Stairway, and so on.

    Their live BBC version of SIBLY is positively smokin'.  I don't think many people realized how much they improvised on stage until the How The West Was Won DVD came out. (and ya gotta love that killer 3-necked guitar John Paul Jones used)
     

Share