The 5 greatest bands of all?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to devildavid's comment:

     

    I judge bands by the music they create. Page being an arranger/producer looks good on his resume but it doesn't mean he created anything as original as the Beatles did.

     



    I wouldn't compare Page as a writer to the Beatles.  But to say that Page and Zeppelin weren't creative in the area of blues-rock and hard rock, you might as well say there's nothing creative in those genres, period.

     



    I only said they weren't original. They were not creative insofar as originality is part of creativity.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to devildavid's comment:

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    Another great thing about the Beatles. They took 50's rock as a foundation and kicked it up a notch sonically. Two of their earliest singles are great examples of this. "She Loves You" and "I Want to Hold Your Hand". Two great shots of sonic excitement.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0YifXhm-Zc

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFuZjUugpzg

     

     

     



    With the invaluable help of George Martin, of course.

     

    I'm not saying Martin deserves songwriting credit.  He was the arranger/producer, first and foremost.  But The Beatles had a stroke of luck in finding a skilled, sympathetic ear in Martin at the switch.

    Talented? No question. Fortunate? Yup.

    By the same token, Jimmy Page was already an accomplished arranger/producer before Led Zep's first album.

     

     



    I judge bands by the music they create. Page being an arranger/producer looks good on his resume but it doesn't mean he created anything as original as the Beatles did.

     



    Without the producer, nothing gets created, which is why they are acknowledged for record of the year, but not song of the year.

    I wouldn't compare Page with George Martin either, necessarily...just noting the difference in approach/background to his band.  Point being is that both the Beatles and Led Zep got a big assist from the experience of their respective producers.

    And original is a bit subjective.  Jimmy Page is flat-out a better guitarist than either John or George, and some of the riffs he 'created' have still never been surpassed.

    Likewise, live performance is another criteria (at least to me) and still part of the act of 'creating' music, in this case night after night in front of stadiums full of people.  (Fitting then, perhaps, that Zep broke the Beatles' single night attendance record in 1973.)

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to devildavid's comment:

     

    I only said they weren't original. They were not creative insofar as originality is part of creativity.

     

     



    I think that many of their songs are original, especially in the 3 album stretch from their 4th album to Physical Graffiti which was their peak period IMO. 

     

    Here are is just a partial list of Zep songs that I consider original.

    What Is And What Should Never Be

    Ramble On

    Celebration Day

    Out on the Tiles

    Friends

    That's the Way

    Black Dog

    Rock and Roll

    Battle of Evermore

    Going to California

    Misty Mountain Hop

    Four Sticks

    When the Levee Breaks

    Song Remains the Same

    The Ocean

    Over the Hills and Far Away

    No Quarter

    The Rover

    In the Light

    Trampled Underfoot

    In My Time of Dying

    Ten Years Gone

    Kashmir

    Achilles Last Stand

    Nobody's Fault But Mine

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    Another word of praise for the Beatles, particularly in their early years. John Lennon's lead vocals on "Twist and Shout" are so passionate and so full of the excitement, energy, and love of rock muisc. These may be the best rock vocals he ever recorded. On this song we really hear the rocking side of John and his passion for rock music.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpzggAVxLME

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to devildavid's comment:

     

    I only said they weren't original. They were not creative insofar as originality is part of creativity.

     

     



    I think that many of their songs are original, especially in the 3 album stretch from their 4th album to Physical Graffiti which was their peak period IMO. 

     

    Here are is just a partial list of Zep songs that I consider original.

    What Is And What Should Never Be

    Ramble On

    Celebration Day

    Out on the Tiles

    Friends

    That's the Way

    Black Dog

    Rock and Roll

    Battle of Evermore

    Going to California

    Misty Mountain Hop

    Four Sticks

    When the Levee Breaks - Kansas Joe McCoy and Memphis Minnie

    Song Remains the Same

    The Ocean

    Over the Hills and Far Away

    No Quarter

    The Rover

    In the Light

    Trampled Underfoot

    In My Time of Dying - Blind Willie Johnson by way of Bob Dylan

    Ten Years Gone

    Kashmir

    Achilles Last Stand

    Nobody's Fault But Mine - Blind Willie Johnson

     



    That's 3 I know of.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:

    Pink Floyd is number 5 for me.  It was a hard one.  I initially left them off, but put them back on after rethinking it.  On the one hand, listening to them today, it's hard to see how cutting edge they were because a lot of bands have surpassed them (Radiohead).  But putting my head back in time, then they belong.  However, there's the whole Wall thing.  Yeah it was cool when I was in high school, but it sounds like a bunch of hooey now.  Yes, it has some great songs, but I can't really listen to it anymore. 



    I'm glad you said this first. It's bad enough that I criticized Led Zep. But I agree, and for me that knocks Pink Floyd off the list.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:

     

    Pink Floyd is number 5 for me.  It was a hard one.  I initially left them off, but put them back on after rethinking it.  On the one hand, listening to them today, it's hard to see how cutting edge they were because a lot of bands have surpassed them (Radiohead).  But putting my head back in time, then they belong.  However, there's the whole Wall thing.  Yeah it was cool when I was in high school, but it sounds like a bunch of hooey now.  Yes, it has some great songs, but I can't really listen to it anymore. 

     



    I'm glad you said this first. It's bad enough that I criticized Led Zep. But I agree, and for me that knocks Pink Floyd off the list.

     



    Yeah, but the live show is sensational.  In vision, scope, presentation and execution, there is really no equal.

    And talk about original...the album/show features a giant talking a&&/worm as a judge.  'Nuff said.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

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    Yeah, but the live show is sensational.  In vision, scope, presentation and execution, there is really no equal.

     

    And talk about original...the album/show features a giant talking a&&/worm as a judge.  'Nuff said.

     



    Special effects don't interest me. I prefer intimate shows in small venues.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    When the Levee Breaks - Kansas Joe McCoy and Memphis Minnie

    In My Time of Dying - Blind Willie Johnson by way of Bob Dylan

    Nobody's Fault But Mine - Blind Willie Johnson

     

    That's 3 I know of.

    Why is it not okay for Led Zeppelin to cover these songs, with original renditions?   They weren't stealing them.   They created their own original versions, so why is that a problem, and for the Beatles (or other groups) it was not?   

    I listened to the Howard Stern show video, with Joan Baez playing back to back against the Led Zeppelin version, and all I can say is that's enough to rest the case on saying thank you to Led Zeppelin, whether they stole the song or not.   Did Joan Baez sell any records in her day?   Her voice is one of the worst I've ever heard, annoying, grating, just awful, it was shocking.   The juxtaposition of the two renditions was mind-blowing in quality, and I don't care if she attributed the song, frankly if that were my song, I would have sued her for singing it.  :P  (just kidding, but man ... ).   



     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to yogafriend's comment:

    In response to devildavid's comment:

     

    When the Levee Breaks - Kansas Joe McCoy and Memphis Minnie

    In My Time of Dying - Blind Willie Johnson by way of Bob Dylan

    Nobody's Fault But Mine - Blind Willie Johnson

     

    That's 3 I know of.

     

     

    Why is it not okay for Led Zeppelin to cover these songs, with original renditions?   They weren't stealing them.   They created their own original versions, so why is that a problem, and for the Beatles (or other groups) it was not?   

    I listened to the Howard Stern show video, with Joan Baez playing back to back against the Led Zeppelin version, and all I can say is that's enough to rest the case on saying thank you to Led Zeppelin, whether they stole the song or not.   Did Joan Baez sell any records in her day?   Her voice is one of the worst I've ever heard, annoying, grating, just awful, it was shocking.   The juxtaposition of the two renditions was mind-blowing in quality, and I don't care if she attributed the song, frankly if that were my song, I would have sued her for singing it.  :P  (just kidding, but man ... ).   





    Covers are fine if you credit the songwriter. Led Zep did not. They put their own names on those songs. Joan Baez credited the songwriter. It's not about which version you prefer or whether you improved it or not. It's about giving credit where it is due and not claiming credit where it is an obvious copy.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    Baez murdered that song.  That's all I can say.    And YES, this is about what I prefer.  Her voice should be used for a instrument of torture.    :)  

    What we have not discussed (yet) is when / if Led Zepp came forward and admitted what they had done?   That's part of their legacy, everyone knows it.    

    I'm not defending them, btw.    

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to devildavid's comment:

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    Yeah, but the live show is sensational.  In vision, scope, presentation and execution, there is really no equal.

     

    And talk about original...the album/show features a giant talking a&&/worm as a judge.  'Nuff said.

     

     



    Special effects don't interest me. I prefer intimate shows in small venues.

     



    Don't we all.

    Like Shea Stadium in '65...?  lol

     

    Live performance is not high on your criteria list, I take it.  Fair enough.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    I think devildavid's criticism of Zep's plagiarism is perfectly legit.  I know that Page and Plant have been very defensive about it over the years.  To me it's a blot on their reputation but it doesn't alter my opinion of their total body of work.  Many of our favorite artists have committed ripoffs of other artists' stuff.  Though not many as blatantly and unrepentantly as Zep. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to devildavid's comment:

     

    Elvis did not take songwriting credits. We always knew who wrote his songs. He was a cover artist and did not pretend otherwise.

     



    Quick question re: this statement on Elvis as cover artist.    Songs that were written for Elvis ... there weren't any?  No songwriters wrote songs expressly for Elvis?  

    If a song is written by a songwriter, who does not perform his own songs, then the song is not being "covered" by any singer, it's simply there for anyone to perform, or create a version of their own. It would be considered a version, not a cover.   If a song is written by a songwriter who does perform his own songs, then any subsequent singer would be covering the song.    

    Either way, it has to be credited, and Elvis apparently did that faithfully, but I wanted clarification as to his identity as a cover artist; I had prevsiously thought he was singing at least some original songs that were written for him.  I never realized all of his songs were remakes.  

    Yoga is calling me to the mat.  Later.  :)

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to yogafriend's comment:

    Baez murdered that song.  That's all I can say.    And YES, this is about what I prefer.  Her voice should be used for a instrument of torture.    :)  

    What we have not discussed (yet) is when / if Led Zepp came forward and admitted what they had done?   That's part of their legacy, everyone knows it.    

    I'm not defending them, btw.    

     



    I don't like Joan Baez's singing, but I wouldn't say she has a bad voice. If anything, she is boring at worst. Her voice just doesn't seem a great fit for folk singing.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

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    Yeah, but the live show is sensational.  In vision, scope, presentation and execution, there is really no equal.

     

    And talk about original...the album/show features a giant talking a&&/worm as a judge.  'Nuff said.

     

     



    Special effects don't interest me. I prefer intimate shows in small venues.

     

     



     

    Don't we all.

    Like Shea Stadium in '65...?  lol

     

    Live performance is not high on your criteria list, I take it.  Fair enough.



    Live performance could be a criteria, but I don't put much value on special effects such as light shows, lasers, props, etc.. I put more value on how a band sounds live. But I haven't seen a lot of bands live so it would be hard for me to judge based on that.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    To get back on topic, the five greatest bands in no particular order:

    Led Zeppelin

    The Who

    The Beatles

    Pink Floyd

    The Rolling Stones

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to royf19's comment:

    To get back on topic, the five greatest bands in no particular order:

    Led Zeppelin

    The Who

    The Beatles

    Pink Floyd

    The Rolling Stones



    Now here's my consensus rock fan!  :-)

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    Live performance could be a criteria, but I don't put much value on special effects such as light shows, lasers, props, etc.. I put more value on how a band sounds live. But I haven't seen a lot of bands live so it would be hard for me to judge based on that.


    Again, fair enough.  For myself, it's a critical point.

    Agreed it's primarily about the music/quality of performance, but there are such things as showmanship, band interaction and improvisational skills that contribute to the overall live experience.

    After all, concerts are inherently multi-media events.  Even the smallest venues have their lights and smoke machines and mirror balls.

    And as far as effects go, I think there are innate differences as well between, say the pyrotechnics and camp theatrics of Kiss vs. the psychedelics of The Dead, or even the audience-band interaction of a Phish show.

    FWIW, Led Zep never did much of a light show spectacle; their legendary live shows often stretched 3-4 hours, featured a lot of improvisation, medleys, curve balls and virtuoso-like solos.

    Granted, not every show is perfect, but that's also the point.  Within each show there are always moments of genuine brilliance, some longer than others, but all of them shared by the band and audience alike, whether the crowd is 1,000, 10,000, or 50,000.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

     

    Criteria:

    Innovation, influence and perpetuation of RnR as a living and breathing artform. One can use this same criteria for Classical, Jazz, Blues, Hip Hop, etc.

    If one was to try and do this with all musical categories combined - good luck. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    If you consider quality more important than quantity, I would include The Band on this thread rather than on Zilla's thread about bands that didn't get enough recognition.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnjoyEverySandwich. Show EnjoyEverySandwich's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    In response to SlimPickensIII's comment:

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    Elvis did not take songwriting credits. We always knew who wrote his songs. He was a cover artist and did not pretend otherwise.



    Au contraire.  He didn't do any writing, but his name is on a bunch of his songs.  .......




    I think this is pretty well known.  Before Dolly Parton was a big star, Elvis wanted to record one of her songs, but she had to release songwriting credit to him, and, even though she was a relative nobody at the time (not to mention female), she turned down that opportunity because she would not release credit for a song she wrote.  Didn't hurt her in the long run, but it was an extremely gutsy move at the time.

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: The 5 greatest bands of all?

    Greatest band of all time?

    Milli Vanilli

    nuff said.

     

     
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