The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : Zil, i know you mean well, but how could you lump the great Everly Brothers in with Sonny and Cher and Tony Orlando and Dawn? Relentless "love" songs? The Everly Brothers' songs of love and heartache are timeless classics.
    Posted by devildavid[/QUOTE]

    I'm sorry.

    I have Everly Brothers in my collection. I do like them... now. But I didn't like them between 1970 and 1979.

    I wasn't trying to say any of these groups weren't good music or that they had no talent, just that the subject matter was mostly about love between two ( usually teenage, but certainly young) people. But the world after the 60's had a whole lot of bad stuff going on, and we needed music to relay the frustration of the younger generation, along came Heavy Metal and then Punk Rock.Maybe some people wanted to keep living blind and believe everything was fine, but I wanted songs about something other than dopey teenage love affairs.

    Was it refreshing for a 14 year old kid in 1972 to hear a song like "Smoke on the Water" ???,or "Pararnoid" damn right!!! Did we really know what the heck it was about?...Hell no! ...but we knew what it was not about , and it was not another tear-jerking love song about two teenage kids whose love for each other was forbidden or frowned upon ( 'Wake up Little Susie','I Got You, Babe' et al).

     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    Some people like me like heavy metal songs because we like the heavy metal beat. Motley Crue's Girls Girls Girls, a "semi love song", comes to mind. It's not always because we're angry Zil.
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : I'm sorry. I have Everly Brothers in my collection. I do like them... now. But I didn't like them between 1970 and 1979. I wasn't trying to say any of these groups weren't good music or that they had no talent, just that the subject matter was mostly about love between two ( usually teenage, but certainly young) people. But the world after the 60's had a whole lot of bad stuff going on, and we needed music to relay the frustration of the younger generation, along came Heavy Metal and then Punk Rock.Maybe some people wanted to keep living blind and believe everything was fine, but I wanted songs about something other than dopey teenage love affairs. Was it refreshing for a 14 year old kid in 1972 to hear a song like "Smoke on the Water" ???,or "Pararnoid" damn right!!! Did we really know what the heck it was about?...Hell no! ...but we knew what it was not about , and it was not another tear-jerking love song about two teenage kids whose love for each other was forbidden or frowned upon ( 'Wake up Little Susie','I Got You, Babe' et al).
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    That's cool. We get into different music at different times of our lives often based on our emotional state at the time. Nothing wrong with that. Just wanted to make sure you weren't dismissing the Everlys. It's all good.
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    I like Helter Skelter, love the White Album more. I never thought of that but I think you're right Jess. It's a great influence. As great as the Who were it's hard to believe that "I can see for miles" was their only top ten hit.
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]I like Helter Skelter, love the White Album more. I never thought of that but I think you're right Jess. It's a great influence. As great as the Who were it's hard to believe that "I can see for miles" was their only top ten hit.
    Posted by jaytf25[/QUOTE]

    It is almost shocking, but some of the greatest bands in the world were never about hit singles. The Who being one of them. And I would bet that if you look at Led Zep's career, you would be shocked as to how little they hit the top 10 with singles. I don't believe Stairway was even released as a single. The heavier bands were always more about the album as a whole. The single in "Hard Rock" didn't really re-emerge until Aerosmith and Queen broke through.
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    'Heavy metal' may not even be a very useful term.  It is after all just a cool-sounding phrase lifted from a Steppenwolf song.  It has come to define such a universe of music that it can't really do the job.  A lot of what is called heavy metal is intricately structured classical or blues-based composition.  Then there is the stuff that is just noise. 
     
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    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : William - I would absolutely agree with you but for one small thing. The music by Hendrix and Beck, even the heaviest, you can still distinctly here the blues influence on the song. You can hear no such thing in Helter Skelter. And that is why I present this song.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    That is a good point Jessy but a lot of early metal has blues influence; Led Zeppelin as exhibit A and although we can debate endlessly if Zeppelin is more Electric Blues or metal the fact is they have been lumped into both categories endlessly.Sorry to be the one to point this out but Helter Skelter is actually a modified 12 bar blues, you can hear it especially on the chorus section.  Many jazz greats modified blues forms most notably Miles Davis and Thelonius Monk.
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]"Helter Skelter" is truly a great hard rock/proto-metal riff. As for the first hard rock/proto-metal song, I'm not so sure, but I believe before that, there was The Kinks' "You Really Got Me".
    Posted by Mattyhorn[/QUOTE] This is a valid point but in the long term I would credit Ray and Dave Davies as perhaps the first punk rockers though at the time distorted guitar had as much influence on metal as punk.
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : That is a good point Jessy but a lot of early metal has blues influence; Led Zeppelin as exhibit A and although we can debate endlessly if Zeppelin is more Electric Blues or metal the fact is they have been lumped into both categories endlessly.Sorry to be the one to point this out but Helter Skelter is actually a modified 12 bar blues, you can hear it especially on the chorus section.  Many jazz greats modified blues forms most notably Miles Davis and Thelonius Monk.
    Posted by william93063[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely agree with you as to the influence of the Blues had on early Metal/Hard Rock. Zep kept there blues influences very close to heart. I think Sabbath truly stripped it down to its bare bones and turned the volume up. We need to remember that Sabbath's sound basically came from Tony's need to tune the guitar down because of his fingertip handicap. This is what gave Sabbaths such a distinctive noise.

    And agree again on where HS came from. Music is almost always some kind of modification of something that came earlier. But let's take Paul's vocal styling in the song. It was definitely a change and you can see that he was going for somthing completely different.

    Like I stated from the beginning, I always felt that H.S. was a rude piece of noise and mayhem that came from almost nowhere. And in the end, that is great. To me, it is what sets them apart from everyone else. There is just not a d*mn thing these guys couldn't do. There were still in their twenties and for Ringo and John, just turning 30 when they broke up. I really would have loved to seen what they could have come up with in the 70's.

    I once made a statement that the Who were my favorite Rock band and I hold true to that. The Beatles were more than Rock and Roll. They were the perfect musical entity who's song writing abilities could match the Gershwin Brothers and who's melodies could match anything that the great classical artists gave us.

    And one last thing - George Martin was the perfect match for them in the studio.
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    George Martin= 5th Beatle, Billy Preston=6th Beatle?
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]Some people like me like heavy metal songs because we like the heavy metal beat. Motley Crue's Girls Girls Girls , a "semi love song", comes to mind. It's not always because we're angry Zil.
    Posted by NumbaFouwer[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely correct.

    Not all Heavy Metal and punk rock has anger and frustration at it's basic core. But, the majority of it is aggressive and is not about peaceful Sunday afternoon walks in the park.

    I think I have channeled alot of my anger, frustration and disappointment through music in my life. I feel as if , when I hear a guy like Rob Halford or Johnny Lydon , sing a song like "Breaking the Law" or 'God Save the Queen" , It makes me feel better about myself that I am not alone in being angry and upset.

    To me it's great therapy.
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : Absolutely correct. Not all Heavy Metal and punk rock has anger and frustration at it's basic core. But, the majority of it is aggressive and is not about peaceful Sunday afternoon walks in the park. I think I have channeled alot of my anger, frustration and disappointment through music in my life. I feel as if , when I hear a guy like Rob Halford or Johnny Lydon , sing a song like "Breaking the Law" or 'God Save the Queen" , It makes me feel better about myself that I am not alone in being angry and upset. To me it's great therapy.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    Well said lizard face. This is exactly what good music does. And it also works when you are in a great mood. It brings you even higher. When I was young, I found it to be a confidence booster when it came to the ladies. Music is as important to my life as blood and oxygen. I do not know if I could exist without it.
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    Thinking back to when I first heard Helter Skelter, there was a shock factor there for sure.  Mind you there were a lot of shocks on that album, a lot of unsettling sounds and words.  What was really striking about that song was the sheer breakneck speed of it.  I don't know if I'd ever heard anything that fast before.  It gave the impression of something hurtling along that was very close to going completely out of control.

    Speed was one of the things that really moved rock and roll toward heavy metal-am I right about that?  Zeppelin turned up the MPH with Communication Breakdown.  Al of a sudden this was one of the big things about guitarists-how fast could the guy play?

    Blue Oyster Cult was another band that played very fast.  The Red and the Black is one of the speediest songs on record.   
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]Thinking back to when I first heard Helter Skelter, there was a shock factor there for sure.  Mind you there were a lot of shocks on that album, a lot of unsettling sounds and words.  What was really striking about that song was the sheer breakneck speed of it.  I don't know if I'd ever heard anything that fast before.  It gave the impression of something hurtling along that was very close to going completely out of control. Speed was one of the things that really moved rock and roll toward heavy metal-am I right about that?  Zeppelin turned up the MPH with Communication Breakdown.  Al of a sudden this was one of the big things about guitarists-how fast could the guy play? Blue Oyster Cult was another band that played very fast.  The Red and the Black is one of the speediest songs on record.   
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    How about "The Bomber" by Motorhead?

    That song moves at breakneck speed.

    I'm waiting for Weird Al to do a parody of this song as "He's Obama"...listen to the song and when Lemmy says 'He's a bomber, he's a bomber", substitute "He's Obama, he's Obama" instead, it's funny how it sounds like that is what he is really singing.
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]Thinking back to when I first heard Helter Skelter, there was a shock factor there for sure.  Mind you there were a lot of shocks on that album, a lot of unsettling sounds and words.  What was really striking about that song was the sheer breakneck speed of it.  I don't know if I'd ever heard anything that fast before.  It gave the impression of something hurtling along that was very close to going completely out of control. Speed was one of the things that really moved rock and roll toward heavy metal-am I right about that?  Zeppelin turned up the MPH with Communication Breakdown.  Al of a sudden this was one of the big things about guitarists-how fast could the guy play? Blue Oyster Cult was another band that played very fast.  The Red and the Black is one of the speediest songs on record.   
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    Speed - good point.

    For your consideration and from the same album, I give you:

    Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except For Me and My Monkey.

    Go listen to is right now and then tell me what you think.
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    Yes, 'Me and My Monkey' is a fast, noisy song as well.  Some nice hard rock guitar chords.  Like Helter Skelter, I think, it has that desperate quality to it, the urgent need to go higher, deeper, faster...more sex, more drugs...unfortunately there might be a bit of a nasty crash later.  
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : How about "The Bomber" by Motorhead? That song moves at breakneck speed. I'm waiting for Weird Al to do a parody of this song as "He's Obama"...listen to the song and when Lemmy says 'He's a bomber, he's a bomber", substitute "He's Obama, he's Obama" instead, it's funny how it sounds like that is what he is really singing.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    Lemmy is God!
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]Yes, 'Me and My Monkey' is a fast, noisy song as well.  Some nice hard rock guitar chords.  Like Helter Skelter, I think, it has that desperate quality to it, the urgent need to go higher, deeper, faster...more sex, more drugs...unfortunately there might be a bit of a nasty crash later.  
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    The crash was always worth it. How can anyone not love nasty, deeper sex Tongue out. But I digress.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from schmangell. Show schmangell's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    John Lennon maintained that he felt "Ticket to Ride" was the first foray into heavy metal.  I don't see it.  Do you? 
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]John Lennon maintained that he felt "Ticket to Ride" was the first foray into heavy metal.  I don't see it.  Do you? 
    Posted by schmangell[/QUOTE]

    a) I'm surprised to hear he said that; and b) if he did say it he might have been having a lark on us.

    There are some great guitar riffs in it.  I suppose it could be made into a metal song.

    What about Paperback Writer?  That's built around a fast and heavy riff. 
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]John Lennon maintained that he felt "Ticket to Ride" was the first foray into heavy metal.  I don't see it.  Do you? 
    Posted by schmangell[/QUOTE]

    I'll bet this was John just being silly.

    Did you know the Beatles were bigger than Jesus?
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : I'll bet this was John just being silly. Did you know the Beatles were bigger than Jesus?
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    Historical data shows that Jesus probably was no more than 5 ft, 6 in tall. I think all 4 were taller than that.
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : I'll bet this was John just being silly. Did you know the Beatles were bigger than Jesus?
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    Going off topic here, does anybody share my view that the whole 'Paul is dead' thing was mainly perpetrated by John as a publicity stunt, or as a way to mess with people's heads?  
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : Going off topic here, does anybody share my view that the whole 'Paul is dead' thing was mainly perpetrated by John as a publicity stunt, or as a way to mess with people's heads?  
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    I think there is no doubt it was some kind of publicity stunt.

    I've read alot of books on the subject of late 60's , rock'n'roll  history and Beatles biography's , and I don't recall anywhere that this was attributed to Lennon alone. Now...messing with people's heads was right down John's alley proof of this is 'I am the Walrus', sung by John, written by John and with totally insane lyrics. Later, John admitted in the White Album song 'Glass Onion' that "the walrus was Paul" meaning Paul was the one dressed as a walrus on the cover of Magical Mystery Tour...I think. You never really knew with Lennon as history reports that he was drugged out much of the time and when he was not, he was rarely serious.There are serious moments from the "Imagine" movie/documentry but in front of cameras John was usually either the joker or the leader of the peace revolution. Sometimes it's hard to separate the man from the clown, or the man from the drug addict.  I have so much respect for his talent and his charisma , his courage to speak out about things that got him in trouble with authorities. But, on teh other hand , I realize he was addicted to LSD and heroin and likely would have been an unstable person and possibly a criminal had it not been for the music and fame.

    Lennon was crazy. I am convinced of it. So many famous people were crazy. Salvador Dali never denied it, Dylan ... I am not too sure about, many great comedians are/were crazy ( Woody Allen, Sam Kinison). These people channeled their insanity into something that people paid money to see.

    "Imagine" that!
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : I think there is no doubt it was some kind of publicity stunt. I've read alot of books on the subject of late 60's , rock'n'roll  history and Beatles biography's , and I don't recall anywhere that this was attributed to Lennon alone. Now...messing with people's heads was right down John's alley proof of this is 'I am the Walrus', sung by John, written by John and with totally insane lyrics. Later, John admitted in the White Album song 'Glass Onion' that "the walrus was Paul" meaning Paul was the one dressed as a walrus on the cover of Magical Mystery Tour...I think. You never really knew with Lennon as history reports that he was drugged out much of the time and when he was not, he was rarely serious.There are serious moments from the "Imagine" movie/documentry but in front of cameras John was usually either the joker or the leader of the peace revolution. Sometimes it's hard to separate the man from the clown, or the man from the drug addict.  I have so much respect for his talent and his charisma , his courage to speak out about things that got him in trouble with authorities. But, on teh other hand , I realize he was addicted to LSD and heroin and likely would have been an unstable person and possibly a criminal had it not been for the music and fame. Lennon was crazy. I am convinced of it. So many famous people were crazy. Salvador Dali never denied it, Dylan ... I am not too sure about, many great comedians are/were crazy ( Woody Allen, Sam Kinison). These people channeled their insanity into something that people paid money to see. "Imagine" that!
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, it was Glass Onion that actually convinced me John was the guy pulling the strings on the Dead Paul thing.  Here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul.  Of course John claimed he was just messing around with people on the lyrics.  Notice he also mentions 3 of Paul's song titles in Glass Onion.

    A lot of the Dead Paul clues were obvious visuals that anybody can easily see on the covers of Sgt. Pepper, Magical Mystery Tour and Abbey Road.  All the Beatles plus some others must have been in on the joke.  I just figure John was the guy behind it.  As you say he was on both sides of the genius/madness line.
     

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