The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SAC12345. Show SAC12345's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    John Lennon maintained that he felt "Ticket to Ride" was the first foray into heavy metal.  I don't see it.  Do you? 
    Posted by schmangell


    I really think you can't trace heavy metal to the beatles directly. There were just so many other bands already moving in the metal direction by that time. Beatles were great, but they were no pioneers of heavy metal.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from cavaliersfan. Show cavaliersfan's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    Was Revolution No.9 heavy metal or just hippy blues or something else ?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    Was Revolution No.9 heavy metal or just hippy blues or something else ?
    Posted by cavaliersfan


    Revolution No.9 was John and Yoko running amuck in the studio creating what they supposed was some sort of avant-garde piece of art but of course was nothing but a melange of noise.  Yoko was into this kind of stuff.  When you play 'number nine' backwards it really does sound like 'turn me on dead man'.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : Revolution No.9 was John and Yoko running amuck in the studio creating what they supposed was some sort of avant-garde piece of art but of course was nothing but a melange of noise.  Yoko was into this kind of stuff.  When you play 'number nine' backwards it really does sound like 'turn me on dead man'.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut


    But it really was great to get wasted to.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from schmangell. Show schmangell's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    There's a whole web page dedicated to John Lennon's connection to heavy metal:

    http://www.earcandymag.com/heavymetallennon.htm

    Here's a slection:

    We've proven that John Lennon was a heavy metal pioneer in 3 areas: gestures, fashion, and vocals. But, there is still more!


    • With the Beatles, John recorded the first heavy metal record and recorded the first use of feedback on popular record. On April 9, 1965 the Beatles released "Ticket To Ride", which Lennon later described: "That was one of the earliest heavy-metal records made." But what makes it "heavy metal"? Heavy metal is characterized by loud distorted (or metallic sounding) guitars, emphatic rhythms, dense bass-and-drum sound, and vigorous vocals. "Ticket To Ride" contains all these elements. However, some still point to 1968's "Helter Skelter" - the first tracks of which were laid down on July 18, 1968, seven days before the "In-A-Gada-Da-Vida" album was released.
      Note: Steppenwolf's "Born to Be Wild" coined the actual term "heavy metal" - but coining a phrase is quite different from actually playing it. Steppenwolf isn't really heavy metal at all.
    • Finally, the very first use of feedback on a rock record is the Beatles song "I Feel Fine",recorded in October 18, 1964. This was before both The Who (1965) and Jimi Hendrix (1967).

    So there you have it...FIVE instances in which John Lennon influenced heavy metal. He was a first in these five topics, all of which can be proven!

     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    Thank you schmangell.

    If memory serves me correct, on the Rubber Soul album, Paul is credited at the time for playing a "fuzz" bass.

    I am really enjoying what everyone is bringing to the table on this.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from schmangell. Show schmangell's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    I love that fuzz bass sound on "The Word."  Paul used fuzz bass on one of my favorite non-Beatle tracks, "Smile Away," from Ram.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal


    I realize he was addicted to LSD and heroin
    Posted by ZILLAGOD



    uh ?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    I love that fuzz bass sound on "The Word."  Paul used fuzz bass on one of my favorite non-Beatle tracks, "Smile Away," from Ram.
    Posted by schmangell


    Whether they started it or not is not the issue anymore.

    The fact is that the Beatles have their hand in the creation of Hard Rock/Metal and Alternative genres along with everything else they are credited with.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : Whether they started it or not is not the issue anymore. The fact is that the Beatles have their hand in the creation of Hard Rock/Metal and Alternative genres along with everything else they are credited with.
    Posted by jesseyeric


    I really don't think any one group or artist "created" Heavy Metal."

    Like Rock'n'Roll itself, it takes it's form over time. I really don't see any one group playing Heavy Metal exclusively, until Black Sabbath comes along, nor is there one song that can be labeled "the first Heavy Metal song".The inspiration comes from various sources, I don't hear alot of Beatles influence in the records of Black Sabbath , but undeniably these British musicians listened to the Beatles ( how could anyone avoid it?). There is more direct influence on Heavy Metal form the Stones with songs like 'Sympathy for the Devil' and 'Gimme Shelter'. But, I think if you tried hard enough you could trace Heavy Metal all the way back to Robert Johnson ('Hell Hound on my Tail' and 'Crossroads' have some Heavy Metal leanings), and there are many influences from Chuck Berry, the Who, Bob Dylan and possibly even Jefferson Airplane. I doubt however, that the Mamas and Papas or Simon and Garfunkel can be said to have influenced Heavy Metal at all or in any way...but I am not totally sure about that.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : I really don't think any one group or artist "created" Heavy Metal." Like Rock'n'Roll itself, it takes it's form over time. I really don't see any one group playing Heavy Metal exclusively, until Black Sabbath comes along, nor is there one song that can be labeled "the first Heavy Metal song".The inspiration comes from various sources, I don't hear alot of Beatles influence in the records of Black Sabbath , but undeniably these British musicians listened to the Beatles ( how could anyone avoid it?). There is more direct influence on Heavy Metal form the Stones with songs like 'Sympathy for the Devil' and 'Gimme Shelter'. But, I think if you tried hard enough you could trace Heavy Metal all the way back to Robert Johnson ('Hell Hound on my Tail' and 'Crossroads' have some Heavy Metal leanings), and there are many influences from Chuck Berry, the Who, Bob Dylan and possibly even Jefferson Airplane. I doubt however, that the Mamas and Papas or Simon and Garfunkel can be said to have influenced Heavy Metal at all or in any way...but I am not totally sure about that.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD


    Are you saying that you cannot bang your head to Bridge Over troubled Water?
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : Are you saying that you cannot bang your head to Bridge Over troubled Water?
    Posted by jesseyeric


    Yes, I am saying exactly that.

    Do you think Mississippi Queen by Mountain is a good example of a rock song that we could categorize as pre-Heavy Metal?
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    Definitely - it is a hard blues influenced masterpiece.

    I think the point I was getting at with HS is that you hear absolutely no blues influences at all. It is in the chord structure and vocal obnoxiousness that I speak.

    The whole point of this was to show that even in Metal, the Beatles had their hand in the pot. Yet when the discussion of Hard Rock/Heavy Metal turn up, you never hear their name mentioned. It is always Kinks, Stones and Who and then everything after that.

    And I was basically wondering why.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from cavaliersfan. Show cavaliersfan's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : Yes, I am saying exactly that. Do you think Mississippi Queen by Mountain is a good example of a rock song that we could categorize as pre-Heavy Metal?
    Posted by ZILLAGOD
          I am not an expert on Heavy Metal but I would say that Mississippi Queen by Mountain is definitely Metal because of the tones of the guitar(s) and vocals.
           Is it also accurate to say, in general, that on the recordings, drums are louder for Heavy Metal than most of the 50's-60's music that preceded it ?? 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal :       I am not an expert on Heavy Metal but I would say that Mississippi Queen by Mountain is definitely Metal because of the tones of the guitar(s) and vocals.        Is it also accurate to say, in general, that on the recordings, drums are louder for Heavy Metal than most of the 50's-60's music that preceded it ?? 
    Posted by cavaliersfan


    Which brings us to another good point.

    How should Metal be defined? What are the subtle differences between Metal and Hard Rock?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : Which brings us to another good point. How should Metal be defined? What are the subtle differences between Metal and Hard Rock?
    Posted by jesseyeric


    Many people do not believe any music with keyboards is Metal.

    Usually Heavy Metal is music that is overpowered with screaming guitars, heavy bass and loud drums. It also helps to wear black leather and have very long hair.

    Another characheristic is to use demonic sounding titles or group names.

    A group such as Bad Company falls outside the hard rock/heavy metal category even though they have these elements :loud guitar, bass and drums and a group name that sounds intimidating. However the music itself is more melodic and bluesy , the lead singer has an outstanding voice ( not a screamer like Halford) and the subject of the songs is often about love and emotional contact....put them down as "blues rock."

    Aerosmith had many elements that hint at heavy metal, but the overall image and group name says they are merely "hard rock." Although the screaming vocals of Tyler on songs like 'Last Child" or the overall feel of "Walk this Way" (Joe Perry's riff , mainly) says they can sometimes be considered heavy metal.

    Thin Lizzy and Nazareth present a problem, while they can be very heavy metal ( Jailbreak , Hair of the Dog) , they often project a softer side ( Love Hurts).

    Some groups leave no doubt they are 100% certified metal (Black Sabbath, Judas Priest). They have all the elements of metal. The look, the sound, the demonic moniker and subject matter, screaming guitar , loud drums and bass.

    I guess the best way to tell if a group is "heavy metal" is to play it in church. If they can tolerate it for 2 minutes it's "hard rock" , if they scream shut it off, shut it off!!! and start praying to God for salvation after 5 seconds or less....it's "heavy metal."
     
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    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : Many people do not believe any music with keyboards is Metal. Usually Heavy Metal is music that is overpowered with screaming guitars, heavy bass and loud drums. It also helps to wear black leather and have very long hair. Another characheristic is to use demonic sounding titles or group names. A group such as Bad Company falls outside the hard rock/heavy metal category even though they have these elements :loud guitar, bass and drums and a group name that sounds intimidating. However the music itself is more melodic and bluesy , the lead singer has an outstanding voice ( not a screamer like Halford) and the subject of the songs is often about love and emotional contact....put them down as "blues rock." Aerosmith had many elements that hint at heavy metal, but the overall image and group name says they are merely "hard rock." Although the screaming vocals of Tyler on songs like 'Last Child" or the overall feel of "Walk this Way" (Joe Perry's riff , mainly) says they can sometimes be considered heavy metal. Thin Lizzy and Nazareth present a problem, while they can be very heavy metal ( Jailbreak , Hair of the Dog) , they often project a softer side ( Love Hurts). Some groups leave no doubt they are 100% certified metal (Black Sabbath, Judas Priest). They have all the elements of metal. The look, the sound, the demonic moniker and subject matter, screaming guitar , loud drums and bass. I guess the best way to tell if a group is "heavy metal" is to play it in church. If they can tolerate it for 2 minutes it's "hard rock" , if they scream shut it off, shut it off!!! and start praying to God for salvation after 5 seconds or less....it's "heavy metal."
    Posted by ZILLAGOD


    My mother and her sisters used to drop to their knees and pray to God in Italian whenever I walked into the house. What does that mean?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : My mother and her sisters used to drop to their knees and pray to God in Italian whenever I walked into the house. What does that mean?
    Posted by jesseyeric


    Either you look like Jesus or the other guy with the pitchfork.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ProfessorPain. Show ProfessorPain's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    I am a former metal head. I think it is a mistake to say "this is metal, but this isn't:". there are lots of groups on the cusp, and metal is at its best when it allows for innovation. One of metal's major drawbacks during the 90s, was it was so clearly defined, you could only do what had been done before. Anything new was greeted with suspicion. Thankfull bands like My Dying Bride and Paradise Lost were out there challenging this assumption. But I have always felt, metal fans could be overly militant at times about what qualifies as metal.

    All that said, I think the easiest band to point to for the genesis of metal is Black Sabbath. They present a very clear break from other material that came before. It just needs the qualifier that they were heavily influenced by other bands that had started covering the ground they embraced fully.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    I am a former metal head. I think it is a mistake to say "this is metal, but this isn't:". there are lots of groups on the cusp, and metal is at its best when it allows for innovation. One of metal's major drawbacks during the 90s, was it was so clearly defined, you could only do what had been done before. Anything new was greeted with suspicion. Thankfull bands like My Dying Bride and Paradise Lost were out there challenging this assumption. But I have always felt, metal fans could be overly militant at times about what qualifies as metal. All that said, I think the easiest band to point to for the genesis of metal is Black Sabbath. They present a very clear break from other material that came before. It just needs the qualifier that they were heavily influenced by other bands that had started covering the ground they embraced fully.
    Posted by ProfessorPain


    Sounds like you really are a professor...assuming all professors are smart.

    I commented on your "8 favorites" thread and I quickly compiled a list of about 12 or 13. I deliberately skipped Led Zeppelin and Whitesnake because they both are sort of in between hard rock, metal and prog rock.

    These might be a couple who are on the "cusp" as you say. Along with those are Alice in Chains, Godsmack and Sisters of Mercy who are also categorized as "Alternative"( but the sound is heavy and dark enough to be called Heavy Metal) and we have had the discussion here about the exact meaning of that term.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from cavaliersfan. Show cavaliersfan's posts

    Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal:
    In Response to Re: The Beatles and Hard Rock/Heavy Metal : Are you saying that you cannot bang your head to Bridge Over troubled Water?
    Posted by jesseyeric
              I'm probably wrong, but Pat Boone could have thrashed out Bridge Over Troubled Water on his heavy metal metal album.
     
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