THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?

    In Response to Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?:
    Sorry, I posted before I was clear on the rules. I'm limiting my choices to rock and roll which is an entirely different animal than rock imo. My 6: Chuck Berry Buddy Holly Richie Valens Little Richard Carl Perkins Early Lennon and McCartney Bo Diddley
    Posted by carnie


    Hmm..is that a 'baker's half-dozen'? Smile
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?

    You make an excellent point Carnie and I like that you listed Bo Didley.  However, your list is 7 (nice Hfxsoxnut) so I would ask if Valens should not be removed?

    Software - you got it right on Freddy.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mattyhorn. Show Mattyhorn's posts

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    In Response to Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK? : I was not going to post on this, since I agree with many of the aforementioned choices. But I have to look at songwriting, first and foremost. Mick failed miserably as a solo artist, and without Richards, wouldn't be where he is. Don't get me wrong, the Stones are (or were) a great band, and Mick is a great frontman, but I would pick Freddie Mercury over him hands down. Freddie (and Queen) changed rock music in a way that few people have. No question about Lennon/McCartney, Hendrix, and Brian Wilson. And yes, George Martin gets Honorable Mention, this was almost my first thought when this was posted. Pete Townshend definitely. Dylan and Neil Young are up there too, but it's hard for me to decide. Since the roots of rock surely point to Berry and Holly, it's hard not to include them. But there are so many, it truly is a difficult task to pick six.
    Posted by softwareDevMusician


    A worthy dissent, and I'm loathe to discount the contributions of Mercury and Queen - especially on this board.  No question that Freddie expanded the definition of rock singer in a way few can match.

    The Mercury / Jagger comparison is indeed an intriguing one (thread topic alert?)
    and one worth exploring.  But given any emphasis on the "roots of rock", I think Jagger set the standard for re-interpreting american blues music as the essence and backbone of rock and roll. 

    Safe to say that neither band would exist without their respective frontmen.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

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    It is an interesting debate (Jagger - Mercury) Certainly Mercury picked up a few things from Mick, much like Tyler and David Jo from the Dolls.

    There really seems to be two different types of frontmen. These and then those who fall in line with Plant, Daltrey and Coverdale. I think some refer to them as C*ckrock vocalists.

    Jim Morrision is a good cross between the two only I never was impressed with his vocal stylings.

    Daltrey always astounded me. He started out as this little brute of a singer, not sure if he was going to be like Jagger or Burden and then he developed into this amazing powerhouse.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from schmangell. Show schmangell's posts

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    The family tree of rock and roll would dwarf a redwood.

    If you start adding Richie Valens (whose early death at 17 - with Buddy no less - kinda eliminates him, imo), then you need to add the talents of Eddie Cochran, who was both a great songwriter and innovative guitarist.  He probably was a key inspiration to Hendrix and Townshend and....

    I'm sticking with newman for this particular thread.  But over to the new one that expands the scope nicely...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mattyhorn. Show Mattyhorn's posts

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    It is an interesting debate (Jagger - Mercury) Certainly Mercury picked up a few things from Mick, much like Tyler and David Jo from the Dolls. There really seems to be two different types of frontmen. These and then those who fall in line with Plant, Daltrey and Coverdale. I think some refer to them as C*ckrock vocalists. Jim Morrision is a good cross between the two only I never was impressed with his vocal stylings. Daltrey always astounded me. He started out as this little brute of a singer, not sure if he was going to be like Jagger or Burden and then he developed into this amazing powerhouse.
    Posted by jesseyeric


    Thanks for mentioning Eric Burdon - one of my all-time fave brit singers.  I mean, talk about just oozing the blues out of every pore, you'd swear he was born in mississippi... 

    Van Morrison is another one - an unreal amount of soul in his cadence and delivery.  The great ones always have that high degree of confidence that when you hear them, they're going to make damm sure that you know they really mean it.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?

    The Gods are angry.  I have spoken to them and they believe that Rock is too multi-faceted to be limited to only 6 all time "Gods."

    I can name 6 "Gods" before 1960. 
     
    In the 60's, I can add about 2 dozen. In the 70's about 48 , and by the 80's I'd be up to 96.

    Rock exploded exponentially, with great talents and personalities that everyone can love.

    That's what makes it so great.

    As God's go, you could include Johnny (Rotten) Lydon, without him Punk has no face, and the disco era may have gone on for another 10 years. If that ain't a God , I don't know what is.


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from newman09. Show newman09's posts

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    The Gods are angry.  I have spoken to them and they believe that Rock is too multi-faceted to be limited to only 6 all time "Gods." I can name 6 "Gods" before 1960.    In the 60's, I can add about 2 dozen. In the 70's about 48 , and by the 80's I'd be up to 96. Rock exploded exponentially, with great talents and personalities that everyone can love. That's what makes it so great. As God's go, you could include Johnny (Rotten) Lydon, without him Punk has no face, and the disco era may have gone on for another 10 years. If that ain't a God , I don't know what is.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD



    Sure we all can name six from every decade. But there has to be the greatest of the great! Even if you polled some of these artists mentioned they would have names that belong at the top. Who are they?  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

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    I don't know about Johnny Rotten being the face of Punk, at least here in NYC.

    This is from personal experience - Back in the days in the East Village, we all appreciated the Pistols. But we all considered Rotten as more of a lap dog than anything else. Sid had a bigger face in terms of the punk lifestyle, but none of them could match The Ramones as far as we were concerned.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from softwareDevMusician. Show softwareDevMusician's posts

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    In Response to Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK? : A worthy dissent, and I'm loathe to discount the contributions of Mercury and Queen - especially on this board.  No question that Freddie expanded the definition of rock singer in a way few can match. The Mercury / Jagger comparison is indeed an intriguing one (thread topic alert?) and one worth exploring.  But given any emphasis on the "roots of rock", I think Jagger set the standard for re-interpreting american blues music as the essence and backbone of rock and roll.  Safe to say that neither band would exist without their respective frontmen.
    Posted by Mattyhorn


    As far as "roots of rock" are concerned and setting a standard, valid point. I guess I was just more impressed with Freddie as a musician, but that's just my personal taste. We've had at least one thread on frontmen in the recent past, but it's a great topic worth revisiting in this context. Part of my thinking also goes back to seeing Queen's performance at Live Aid, which impressed me more than anything I've seen by the Stones, although I've not seen either band live. But again, that's just me...my guess is that in a poll of the general public, Mick would get more votes.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?

    In Response to Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?:
    In Response to Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK? : As far as "roots of rock" are concerned and setting a standard, valid point. I guess I was just more impressed with Freddie as a musician, but that's just my personal taste. We've had at least one thread on frontmen in the recent past, but it's a great topic worth revisiting in this context. Part of my thinking also goes back to seeing Queen's performance at Live Aid, which impressed me more than anything I've seen by the Stones, although I've not seen either band live. But again, that's just me...my guess is that in a poll of the general public, Mick would get more votes.
    Posted by softwareDevMusician


    I am with you Software. Freddie was the ultimate frontman.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from joel49. Show joel49's posts

    Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?

    Obviously a difficult task to narrow it to six.  Lots of greats have been mentioned.  I'll give it a try.

    Buddy Holly

    Chuck Berry - A total sob, btw.

    Lennon/McCartney - I agree with Jessey that they have to be linked.

    Roy Orbison - Just look at the musicians who appeared with and honored him on "A Black & White Night."  If you haven't seen it, you are missing out.

    Bobby Zimmerman

    Paul Simon - Other than L&M his influence on the American music scene is  unparalleled imo.  He constantly evolves, and his introduction of African rhythms and voices into his music was brilliant.  I can't think of anyone who has done more to bring the music of other cultures (through his music) to our attention.


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from softwareDevMusician. Show softwareDevMusician's posts

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    Obviously a difficult task to narrow it to six.  Lots of greats have been mentioned.  I'll give it a try. Buddy Holly Chuck Berry - A total sob, btw. Lennon/McCartney - I agree with Jessey that they have to be linked. Roy Orbison - Just look at the musicians who appeared with and honored him on "A Black & White Night."  If you haven't seen it, you are missing out. Bobby Zimmerman Paul Simon - Other than L&M his influence on the American music scene is  unparalleled imo.  He constantly evolves, and his introduction of African rhythms and voices into his music was brilliant.  I can't think of anyone who has done more to bring the music of other cultures (through his music) to our attention.
    Posted by joel49


    I'll second that...it's like a who's who of musicians, ranging from Jackson Browne and James Burton to Elvis Costello and Tom Waits. My appreciation of Orbison increased dramatically after seeing that.
     
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    Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?

    As well as Springsteen (who should get an honorable mention in this category) and the girl back up vocal trio of kd lang, Bonnie Raitt and Jennifer Warnes.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from schmangell. Show schmangell's posts

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    I think this is getting WAY off course.  I think Newman's original idea traces things back to the Big Bang of rock and roll.  Everyone else are apostles.

    Perhaps we should ask John Lennon.  He opens the new Double Fantasy Stripped Down with the following words: "This is for Gene and Eddie and Elvis and Buddy."

    Gene Vincent
    Eddie Cochran
    Elvis Presley
    Buddy Holly
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

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    I guess it is difficult to argue with John on this.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mattyhorn. Show Mattyhorn's posts

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    In Response to Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?:
    In Response to Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK? : As far as "roots of rock" are concerned and setting a standard, valid point. I guess I was just more impressed with Freddie as a musician, but that's just my personal taste. We've had at least one thread on frontmen in the recent past, but it's a great topic worth revisiting in this context. Part of my thinking also goes back to seeing Queen's performance at Live Aid, which impressed me more than anything I've seen by the Stones, although I've not seen either band live. But again, that's just me...my guess is that in a poll of the general public, Mick would get more votes.
    Posted by softwareDevMusician


    Again, fair enough.  My own personal bias is evident, as I've seen the Stones three times (forcing me to interpolate Jagger's performance back through the decades), while I never had the chance to see Mercury before his untimely demise.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

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    Matty - I wish you would of had the chance to see him. He was pure showmanship & magic. He made the fans in the cheap seats feel like they were sitting in the front row.

    I know I sound like a homer when it comes to Freddie, but I cannot help myself. And one of the great things about Freddie was that he had no problems letting May or Taylor take front and center. His ego was so respectful of his bandmates, whereas Jagger always had to be front and center.

    I watched Freddie from Day one up until his death. And being a guitarist, my attention was always leaning towards the guitarists on stage. But with Freddie, you just couldn't help yourself. If you were to look up Pomp and Circumstance in the dictionary, Freddies picture would be right next to it. Freddie was a Rock Star - pure fantasy. Just the way it is supposed to be.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from schmangell. Show schmangell's posts

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    I totally agree with eric on the Freddie/Mick comparison.  Freddie was known for his spirit of generosity, among other things.  I saw him twice, the first time at the Rainbow in London and then at the Cumberland County Civic Center in Portland.  Beyond his note-perfect singing performance, he was a consummate host.  He made sure everone in the house was totally involved in the occasion. A Queen show was indeed always a special occasion.


    Mick's energy is always top-notch and I love watching him perform, too.  But - and this is just my opinion - his vocals seem to have evolved into a caricature of himself.  I know people will unload on me for that but so be it.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

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    I don't know about Johnny Rotten being the face of Punk, at least here in NYC. This is from personal experience - Back in the days in the East Village, we all appreciated the Pistols. But we all considered Rotten as more of a lap dog than anything else. Sid had a bigger face in terms of the punk lifestyle, but none of them could match The Ramones as far as we were concerned.
    Posted by jesseyeric


    While I agree that the Ramones were better than the Sex Pistols and Punk was born in the U.S. ( either Detroit or New York , depending on who's story you beleive). Johnny Rotten became the most recognizable, despised and significant face of the whole Punk rock movement. Without Johnny Rotten as a front man the Pistols would have been lost amongst all the "wanna bees" of the era. Musically they were not so good, John's attitude and higher visibility in the media than Iggy or the Ramones made him a "bigger than life" figure in Punk rock history. Remember , The Sex Pistols only made 1 studio album, Johnny Rotten is mentioned as the "king" in Neil Young's "Out of the Blue, Into the Black" opening song on the 'Rust Never Sleeps' LP.

    I would place John Lydon high on any list of Rock Gods simply because the Sex Pistols spearheaded the whole Punk Movement that helped push disco off the map and return Rock to it's rightful place atop the music world. Also , John Lydon's later group,Public Image Limited is one of the first groups to move away from the Punk/ New Wave style and usher in what would soon be called the 'Alternative Rock' or 'Modern Rock' era.

    John Lydon was an actor more than a singer , he acted the part of the "naughty teenage boy" or "snotty juvenile deliquent" an image that simply builds upon the rebellious heros of 50's youth like James Dean and Jerry Lee Lewis. This formula proved successful elevating the Sex Pistols to legendary status in a few short years of existence...based more on their demeanor, actions and appearance than on the music.

    When you hear him speak in interviews later on in the 90's , you see that this was no fool, he was a much more intelligent man than he ever got credit for being. Much like Iggy Pop, Alice Cooper,and Elvis Costello, people who assumed a stage persona that was largely meant to help market their music.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?

    In Response to Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?:
    In Response to Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK? : While I agree that the Ramones were better than the Sex Pistols and Punk was born in the U.S. ( either Detroit or New York , depending on who's story you beleive). Johnny Rotten became the most recognizable, despised and significant face of the whole Punk rock movement. Without Johnny Rotten as a front man the Pistols would have been lost amongst all the "wanna bees" of the era. Musically they were not so good, John's attitude and higher visibility in the media than Iggy or the Ramones made him a "bigger than life" figure in Punk rock history. Remember , The Sex Pistols only made 1 studio album, Johnny Rotten is mentioned as the "king" in Neil Young's "Out of the Blue, Into the Black" opening song on the 'Rust Never Sleeps' LP. I would place John Lydon high on any list of Rock Gods simply because the Sex Pistols spearheaded the whole Punk Movement that helped push disco off the map and return Rock to it's rightful place atop the music world. Also , John Lydon's later group,Public Image Limited is one of the first groups to move away from the Punk/ New Wave style and usher in what would soon be called the 'Alternative Rock' or 'Modern Rock' era. John Lydon was an actor more than a singer , he acted the part of the "naughty teenage boy" or "snotty juvenile deliquent" an image that simply builds upon the rebellious heros of 50's youth like James Dean and Jerry Lee Lewis. This formula proved successful elevating the Sex Pistols to legendary status in a few short years of existence...based more on their demeanor, actions and appearance than on the music. When you hear him speak in interviews later on in the 90's , you see that this was no fool, he was a much more intelligent man than he ever got credit for being. Much like Iggy Pop, Alice Cooper,and Elvis Costello, people who assumed a stage persona that was largely meant to help market their music.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD



    Well, as articulate as you were with this argument, I will have to concede point to you. Maybe punk needs to be one of the next threads.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

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    In Response to Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK? : Well, as articulate as you were with this argument, I will have to concede point to you. Maybe punk needs to be one of the next threads.
    Posted by jesseyeric


    Not to get too far of topic, but I read a book a few years back about Punk rock and it's origins. The book doesn't glorify the people or the movement. It is presented with bleak images of heroin addiction and sleazy lifestyles. I think it was called "Please, Kill Me."...or something like that. It traces Punk back to the MC5 and Velvet Underground. Recommended reading...you get a new "disrespect" for all involved. I still like the music , though.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?

    There's kind of a dichotomy going on here.  Do we mean gods of rock as originators and forefathers, or gods as supreme masters?

    To me somebody like Buddy Holly probably is a great forefather of rock, but I've never been particularly interested in owning any of his recordings.  To me the ultimate test is how much of the artist's stuff I own and play, and how much of it makes me feel awestruck at the artist's talents and powers.  Maybe that's just what I am.  I'm not a musician or a music critic, I'm an appreciator and a consumer.  My gods are not the same as someone else's.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from schmangell. Show schmangell's posts

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    In Response to Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?:
    There's kind of a dichotomy going on here.  Do we mean gods of rock as originators and forefathers, or gods as supreme masters? To me somebody like Buddy Holly probably is a great forefather of rock, but I've never been particularly interested in owning any of his recordings.  To me the ultimate test is how much of the artist's stuff I own and play, and how much of it makes me feel awestruck at the artist's talents and powers.  Maybe that's just what I am.  I'm not a musician or a music critic, I'm an appreciator and a consumer.  My gods are not the same as someone else's.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut


    I think that's where this got off course.  The original post seemed to be about the originators, the ones who took the blues, jazz and country music and turned into something completely new and exiting.  And that list has to be extremely limited.

    There are now gazillions of musicians that have mastered their own niche and are undoubtedly the greats.  The Hall of Fame, so to speak.  Although the actual Rock Hall is starting to get it completely wrong.  Madonna has no place in the world of music I'm talking about.  Buddy Holly surely does belong, even though I may not listen to his music much myself.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: THE SIX GODS OF ROCK?

    I think we should all give Hfsoxnut and schmangell a standing ovation.

    You have both given the best argument yet as to why it is hard to name 6 "gods"
     
    ...Mr. nut's "My gods are not the same as someone else's"

    ...and schmang's "Madonna has no place in the world of music I'm talking about."

    These two statements are right on target. Madonna may be a "god" to a fan of Pop music, Aretha Franklin is a 'god' of Gospel and Soul music. They both have had a hand in influencing Rock music that came after them, but in terms of "Rock" music neither is a "god."

    We could name Hank Williams ( not Jr.) and Johnny Cash as big influences on Rock , but they are possibly "gods" of country music...not rock.

    Also Muddy Waters and Robert Johnson influenced rock in a big way, but they are "gods" of the Blues.

    A "god" is in the eye of the beholder. This thread has opened a serious can of worms, I think we all may be guilty of intrepreting it differently from what was intended.
     
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