Why Rap is not Rock

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Why Rap is not Rock

    It has spoken word, mainly. Repeats a beat to the point of being annoying. Uses a phono stylus scratching vinyl as a musical instrument. And my ears tell me it is a totally different style.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    The Ramones repeated a beat to the point of annoying but we love them anyway to the point of being one of the top 100 bands of all-time.

    Also, if you listen to the music of NWA, Public Enemy, Ice Cube's Body Count, Tupac, Biggie Smalls and Eminem, you will clearly hear influences  and musicality.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    In response to jesseyeric's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Ramones repeated a beat to the point of annoying but we love them anyway to the point of being one of the top 100 bands of all-time.

    Also, if you listen to the music of NWA, Public Enemy, Ice Cube's Body Count, Tupac, Biggie Smalls and Eminem, you will clearly hear influences  and musicality.

    [/QUOTE]

    So , Ramones meet one of the three points I refer to.....in every other way they are Rock. There is some repetion in most music, but Rap simply repeats a beat continuously, while someone speaks over the beat.

    "Influences" of Rock in Rap....no argument here. 

    Doesn't mean these two are one....just that they do share some common ground. 

    Salad can have tomatoes in it, Spaghetti can be served with tomato sauce. The share something in common. But, spaghetti is not salad.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    Rap is cRap

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    Zila - you have to listen to those Rap/Hip-Hop bands that did more than just a rhyme and simple beat. I listed a few for you.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    I would suggest there is:

    Pure rap

    Rap-rock (Walk This Way)

    Rap-pop or hip hop-pop.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    Rap is one of Rock N' Roll's children and thus shares its DNA.

    It is not a relative by marriage only; it is a blood relation and thus a sub-form of RnR, like new wave or grunge or metal.

    This is a conversation about genre, not style.

    Culturally and commercially speaking, rap has pretty much supplanted rock as the pre-eminent musical art form.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    Excuse me if I still choose to disagree.

    I've made my case on at least three different threads.

    If people still want to classify Rap as a form of Rock...there is nothing else I ,or anyone else, can say.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Excuse me if I still choose to disagree.

    I've made my case on at least three different threads.

    If people still want to classify Rap as a form of Rock...there is nothing else I ,or anyone else, can say.

    [/QUOTE]

    Please forgive me, zill, if I haven't looked through your other recent posts on this topic... yet, as I was on a forced tech hiatus last week.

    My post above was meant to be succinct.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Klaas. Show Klaas's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    I'm with Zill and Tcall. No way is Rap, Rock. It's more like jungle music from the African tribes you see in movies. If you think that Rap is Rock ... then Rock started in Africa a long time ago.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    I am not disputing the common "DNA" between the two.

    This in itself, does not give rise to the Rap as a sub-genre theory.

    Jazz and Blues both share DNA with each other, decended from Rhythm and Blues. 

    Yet Jazz and Blues are different genres, one is not sub-genre to the other.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    In response to Klaas' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If you think that Rap is Rock ... then Rock started in Africa a long time ago.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'd be down with that.

    Most music came from Africa, anyway.  Even the banjo.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am not disputing the common "DNA" between the two.

    This in itself, does not give rise to the Rap as a sub-genre theory.

    Jazz and Blues both share DNA with each other, decended form Rhythm and Blues. 

    Yet Jazz and Blues are different genres, one is not sub-genre to the other.

    [/QUOTE]

    Jazz and Blues - as genres - developed somewhat at the same times, but not in tandem.  They are both parents, not children like, say, boogie woogie or be-bop.

    Rap could not have developed without Rock N' Roll, either musically or culturally.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    I am not disputing the common "DNA" between the two.

    This in itself, does not give rise to the Rap as a sub-genre theory.

    Jazz and Blues both share DNA with each other, decended form Rhythm and Blues. 

    Yet Jazz and Blues are different genres, one is not sub-genre to the other.

     



    Jazz and Blues - as genres - developed somewhat at the same times, but not in tandem.  They are both parents, not children like, say, boogie woogie or be-bop.

     

    Rap could not have developed without Rock N' Roll, either musically or culturally.

     



    Are you sure about that? And why?

    But even if true , "developing" from another "parent" or "child" does not mean "equal to." 

    Rhythm and Blues: style of music combining Jazz and Blues developed by African American musicians.

    Blues: Style of music developed from African American folk songs in the early 20th century.

    Blues is a style of music developed from Folk music.

    >Yet Blues is not a sub-genre of Folk.

    Jazz : Grew out of a mixture of Blues , Western Swing, and Western Art Music 

    >Yet Jazz is not a sub-genre of Blues.

    Rhythm and Blues is either a child of Jazz and Blues or a form of music both grew out from....depending on what you use as a reference.

    > and yet, all three are considered genres on their own....no one is a sub-genre of the others.

    Music can be related, can share the same origins, yet not be considered sub-genres of the other.

    If that were true than there should be no Rock'n'Roll nor should there be a Rock 'n'Roll Hall Of Fame as Rock as we know it should be classified as a sub-genre of Blues , Folk or Country. It appears Folk has the inside track as Blues was developed from Folk,  and Jazz grew out from Blues.

    So all American music must be a sub-genre of Folk. This lets Classical off the hook as it is not American Music.

    So, if they call it the Folk Music Hall Of Fame and allow all forms of American music including (Jazz, Rock, Rap, Blues, Country , Disco , Soul)...(but not limited to those styles)...or they could call it the Amercian Music Hall Of Fame, and I'd be alright with that, because it would be more precise, more accurate, more legit....and since they are intent on  "covering all the bases" , this would fit better as a title for what they are now doing.

    This thing we call Rock is what happened when White Amercian music became entangled with Black African rhythms....but that could be said of Jazz and Blues also. Rock formed later , but is not a sub-genre of either Jazz or Blues. 

    Jazz, Blues, Rock all are genres that developed from another style or styles.....why is this not applicable when speaking of Rap?...because it forms in the 1980s ...too late to be a genre all it's own?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am not disputing the common "DNA" between the two.

    This in itself, does not give rise to the Rap as a sub-genre theory.

    Jazz and Blues both share DNA with each other, decended form Rhythm and Blues. 

    Yet Jazz and Blues are different genres, one is not sub-genre to the other.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Jazz and Blues - as genres - developed somewhat at the same times, but not in tandem.  They are both parents, not children like, say, boogie woogie or be-bop.

     

    Rap could not have developed without Rock N' Roll, either musically or culturally.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Are you sure about that? And why?

    But even if true , "developing" from another "parent" or "child" does not mean "equal to." 

    Rhythm and Blues: style of music combining Jazz and Blues developed by African American musicians.

    Blues: Style of music developed from African American folk songs in the early 20th century.

    Blues is a style of music developed from Folk music.

    >Yet Blues is not a sub-genre of Folk.

    Jazz : Grew out of a mixture of Blues , Western Swing, and Western Art Music 

    >Yet Jazz is not a sub-genre of Blues.

    Rhythm and Blues is either a child of Jazz and Blues or a form of music both grew out from....depending on what you use as a reference.

    > and yet, all three are considered genres on their own....no one is a sub-genre of the others.

    Music can be related, can share the same origins, yet not be considered sub-genres of the other.

    If that were true than there should be no Rock'n'Roll nor should there be a Rock 'n'Roll Hall Of Fame as Rock as we know it should be classified as a sub-genre of Blues , Folk or Country. It appears Folk has the inside track as Blues was developed from Folk,  and Jazz grew out from Blues.

    So all Ameriacn music must be a sub-genre of Folk. This lets Classical off the hook as it is not American Music.

    So, if they call it the Folk Music Hall Of Fame and allow all forms of American music including (Jazz, Rock, Rap, Blues, Country , Disco , Soul)...(but not limited to those styles)...or they could call it the Amercian Music Hall Of Fame, and I'd be alright with that, because it would be more precise, more accurate, more legit....and since they are intent on  "covering all the bases" , this would fit better as a title for what they are now doing.

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, I think there's a distinction between style and genre.  Many styles can fit within a single genre regardless of what it's called.  Rap itself has spawned different styles.

    (Art history is concerned with "movements", i.e. groups of artists working within defined styles or philosophies.  In my mind, an artistic movement equates to an overall musical genre.)

    Some styles are geographical, like african folk music vs. irish folk music; or cultural, like cajun vs. appalachian.  (Classical music can be american, but most is based on a european tradition of the form.)

    We've talked about the RnRHoF and its vague mandate.  Myself, I would call it the Museum of Contemporary Popular Music.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RogerTaylor. Show RogerTaylor's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Rap is cRap

    [/QUOTE]


     

    AGREED!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Why Rap is not Rock

      Myself, I would call it the Museum of Contemporary Popular Music.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'd be okay with that.

     
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