Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jorgeheywho. Show jorgeheywho's posts

    Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    So I finally did it.  Traded in my conventional gas car for a hybrid and now own a 2011 camry hybrid.  I have had it for a month and cannot believe the difference even after owning a 4 cylinder volkswagon that was not awful in gas but got half the mileage of the new hybrid.  The last time I looked, dealers were taking orders and making lists and wringing their hands in joy over how much they were charging buyers.  This time, I had a huge selection to pick from, factory incentives of cash and zero financing as well as discounts that I have not seen in years.  Even better, I barely know that I am driving one.  My camry acts like a regular car with lots of creature comforts and lots of technology that makes me think I am driving a luxury car vs one that is kind to the environment.  So what has changed that these cars are now so available?  Did I discover something or did I miss some email?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jorgeheywho. Show jorgeheywho's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    Just an update....had to put gas in it finally.....at $3.79 for regular, seems expensive but glad to know that I will not being doing it for another month.  I do not usually have the luck of buying anything at the right time (bought the house in 2005 so you know that story) but it looks like this one is good timing.  Are there others out there considering Camry Hybrid?  Should I have gotten the Prius?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from WVW. Show WVW's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    The thing that turns me off about a hybrid is the redundancy of powertrains. To have both electric AND gas powered propulsion doubles the complexity of the vehicle. I am actually pretty anxious to try an all electric car. We live close to the city and rarely drive more than 50 miles in a day, and both take public trans. to work every day so the range issues are not a big factor for us. But the thing that really appeals to me is the reliability/simplicity of an only electric vehicle. No muffler, no radiator, no oil, no air filter, no gas tank, no fuel line, no spark plugs, no O2 sensor, etc., etc... so many of those irritating little things that I eventually need to replace/repair on a gasoline powered car are gone. I won't consider the chevy Volt since it is not an electric only car.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jorgeheywho. Show jorgeheywho's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    I admit to being a little afraid of all the technology in the hybrid since its interdependent of all things working together to achieve efficiency.  My first car I ever owned was a 1972 dodge colt that was a bare bones manual transmission tied to a simple 4 cylinder engine that achieved the same mileage as my hybrid.  Its simplicity made it an amazingly frugal first car given to me by my parents and extremely easy to maintain.  My father would shake his head at buying such a complex car as a hybrid today.  My only consolation is the they have been around now for about ten years and their reliability is fairly high.  I even see that most cabs use them and thats a tough utilization.  So while I agree that electric can be the ultimate, its not there yet.  More so, they are even higher priced and not considered mainstream here yet.  Since the hybrids are a plentiful option today, its to me the best choice.  Not sure what the auto world will have in five years from today...it will be interesting to see where the electric car will be at that point as well as changes to infrastructure to support such a car.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    If electricity is produced by burning coal and oil, how is driving an all electric car different than driving an gas burning car? 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from redflatshoe. Show redflatshoe's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    In Response to Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?:
    [QUOTE]So I finally did it.  Traded in my conventional gas car for a hybrid and now own a 2011 camry hybrid.  I have had it for a month and cannot believe the difference even after owning a 4 cylinder volkswagon that was not awful in gas but got half the mileage of the new hybrid.  The last time I looked, dealers were taking orders and making lists and wringing their hands in joy over how much they were charging buyers.  This time, I had a huge selection to pick from, factory incentives of cash and zero financing as well as discounts that I have not seen in years.  Even better, I barely know that I am driving one.  My camry acts like a regular car with lots of creature comforts and lots of technology that makes me think I am driving a luxury car vs one that is kind to the environment.  So what has changed that these cars are now so available?  Did I discover something or did I miss some email?
    Posted by jorgeheywho[/QUOTE]

    Most of the changes are on the battery technology and manufacturing.  Lithiums are expensive but the manufacturing made them more expensive.  Battery companies have finally recieved enough investments and improved yield that the savings have been passed to manufacturer. 

    Early hybrids were actually sold at a loss by car manufacturers because of limited hybrid battery source.  And these batteries used to cost $4-$7 a piece.  But now, they cost less than $3 and there are now multiple sources. 

    Enjoy and drive on.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    Does anyone know how much coal it takes at the power plant to produce the electricity the car needs to be charged?  I don't know, but it's not zero emissions.  How does it compare to the emissions of gas?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jorgeheywho. Show jorgeheywho's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    In Response to Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?:
    [QUOTE]Does anyone know how much coal it takes at the power plant to produce the electricity the car needs to be charged?  I don't know, but it's not zero emissions.  How does it compare to the emissions of gas?
    Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]

    Not debating that with electric cars, there are trade-offs.  At the present time, its seems that the hybrid which generates its own electricity through braking is the best solution.  You use the gasoline engine when its figured out that its necessary and electric power when it not or the gas engine needs assistance.

    Even some of the newer cars being produced with some amazing mpgs still consume fuel whenever its running...stop lights, heavy traffic or other reason to idle.  A hybrid uses no gas in those situations.  Given the frequency of those events, a hybrids seems to be best choice today for stretching a gallon of gas.

    No waste of fuel and amazingly, very little discernable difference between them and their gas only models.  The most amazing thing is the dealers are not treating them much differently than their gas only models.  Dealers discount, they have them in stock for immediate delivery and the cars work as promised. 

    Thats what amazes me the most
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rick259g. Show rick259g's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    Hybrids aren't plentiful where I live. Toyota has 2 or 3, Ford has zero, and Honda has 1 or 2.  I would love to buy one since I drive 2000 per month, but must settle for conventional for now.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Nells250. Show Nells250's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    Why buy conventional?  Because not everyone has the money to buy a new car.  Not everyone gets a new car every few years.  Not everyone wants a car with no soul.  Some people want to wait until the technology is proven.  Some people don't want to drive a computer...

    And I sudder at the costs of repairs for a hybrid... What will happen to all those betteries 10 years from now?  Will people have to PAY to junk their hybrids?  Can you fix your own hybrid when something goes wrong?  I saw a Prius at a car wash past winter, and it DIED with lots of cars waiting in line behind it.  Couldn't get it to move.  Can you get a Prius in neutral when it is dead?  Can you still jumpstart one? 

    The truth of the matter is, not everyone wants a hybrid...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mba73. Show mba73's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    Why buy conventional? Because a diesel can get about the same fuel economy as a hybrid. Because the battery production/assembly/shipping process offers its own environmental issues. Because a hybrid battery weighs a great deal and weight is the enemy of performance and efficiency. And because some people actually like cars and driving and driving a hybrid has all the charm of driving a dish washer.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    In Response to Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful? : Not debating that with electric cars, there are trade-offs.  At the present time, its seems that the hybrid which generates its own electricity through braking is the best solution.  
    Posted by jorgeheywho[/QUOTE]

    I agree, it makes sense if the electricity is 100% brake derived.  However, if you have to plug it in, it's not clean.  The electric company burns coal to give you that clean battery.  I think people forget all about that because there's nothing coming out of their tail pipe.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedFishBlueFish. Show RedFishBlueFish's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    There are alternative energy sources. Theoretically, the electricity used for hybrids could be coming from much cleaner sources than burning coal, like nuclear, wind, or water. It's not *all* coal anymore.

    In fact, if you get your power through NSTAR anyway, you can opt to pay a higher rate to have all of your electricity generated from renewable resources. Your electricity can be clean if you choose to pay for it.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    Yes, there is more expensive cleaner electricity available, but I'd like to know what percentage of plug-in car drivers are choosing to pay more for cleaner electricity verses those who are essentially driving coal burning cars while they turn up their noses at the gas burners.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedFishBlueFish. Show RedFishBlueFish's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    One of the first people I knew with a hybrid has had solar panels on his house for decades, doesn't use a dryer because it's a waste of energy, etc. I haven't asked to see his electric bill, so I can't say for sure, but my guess is that he would participate in that program if it were offered in his area. I don't know if it is.

    There are going to be people who turn their noses up at gas vehicles because hybrid/electric ones are the newest thing. But there are also lots of people who genuinely make decisions based on clean energy. The people who have the money to buy electric cars (purely plug-ins) are also the ones who would spend extra for clean energy.

    Even so, about 20% of our nation's electricity does come from nuclear power, which isn't burning fossil fuels. So that is some improvement over simply burning gas/oil.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    Truly green, non-hypocritical people are out there, for sure.  I just want people to be aware that you have to be proactive about getting green electricity, too, if your goal by getting a car you have to plug in is to avoid burning fossil fuels by driving.  Something tells me the car dealerships aren't reminding people.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jorgeheywho. Show jorgeheywho's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    This blog has digressed a bit since my comments were geared towards availability and less towards the debates noted.  Anyway, read the article on the sonata hybrid and was impressed by what I read and of course, its interior styling which looks a bit better than my camry.  I really only looked at the fusion seriously as an alternative (ford dealers...drop the attitude).  This looks like a serious contender and if the dealer have them without the attitude of "how much are you willing to pay us", they will have a serious winner.  Good for them.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from clquake. Show clquake's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    In Response to Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?:
    [QUOTE]the people and emperor of japan thank you for supporting their economy.
    Posted by TheRealHomer[/QUOTE]
    Not only do the people and emperor of Japan thank you, so do the workers and families of the Georgetown, KY assembly plant.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mba73. Show mba73's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    In Response to Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful? : Not only do the people and emperor of Japan thank you, so do the workers and families of the Georgetown, KY assembly plant.
    Posted by clquake[/QUOTE]

    And the people who mine the battery material in Canada. And the people who ship the material to Europe. And the people in Europe who build the batteries. And the people who ship the completed batteries to Japan to be put into the Prius and other cars.

    I wonder how many hybrid owners are aware of how much energy goes into making their "green" cars and how much environmental damage is caused by the process?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jorgeheywho. Show jorgeheywho's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    OMG....well I guess I should have bought a buick....dad had several and bought my first new one during the time when republicans were presidents, hostages were all freed, greed was good and every night we dressed for dinner.  The world was at peace.  At last, I get it....hybrids are bad for the world and that is why they were finally available at a non-premium price.  Do you think if I trade it in for a regal with velour interior, congress will find a missing line item and balance the budget, the troops will all come home and even McDonalds will offer a signing bonus if you take a job?  Thank you all for your input....I have my answer.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaggieOHooligan. Show MaggieOHooligan's posts

    Re: Why buy conventional when hybrids are plentiful?

    Hybrids tend to be more expensive to insure, in part, because the cost to replace their expensive batteries when they are damaged in a collision.
     

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