1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Frostbite - help, please

    Gracie most certainly was ill earlier in the week due to hypothermia.  Now, she's licking her front toes fairly regularly (not incessantly), and she wimpers and pulls away when I try to get a close look.  She's having a hard time on the snow and actually peed inside 2 days ago.  We had no idea why then, but now with signs of frostbite I can understand.

    She's walking OK in the house and eating, drinking, and sleeping fine.  She seems to have her usual energy, again, but her toes are tender to the touch.  Her tail and ears seem perfectly fine.

    So, again, I have a call in to the vet, but does anyone have any personal experience with this?  I think it's a mild case, but what do I know???  Is it ever really "mild" with frostbite, or are her toes going to fall off???

    Stop laughing, I'm really concerned.

    Thanks, as always. 

    ~kar



    P.S.  It happened Wednesday on her walk with my DH while he was cc skiing.  We didn't know labs were susceptible, thought it was just smaller dogs not bred for hunting.




     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Oh dear-  she is a short haired and temperate climate dog.

    Was she out on any of the super cold  and windy days?

        Very cold climate dogs not only have that 3-5 inch fur coat  with lots of lanolin  oiling the hairs so they do not hold water  (in the winter, not summer coat),  but they have a huge layer of like callous tissue on the bottom with little circulation,  so in extreme cold circulation needed to keep vulnerable parts of tissue alive never is near the cold ground.   Also,  hair/ fur on feet around toes.

       If you did not use a sheepskin vest or similar, and booties  like a sleeping bag or quilted snowsuit material with outer waterproofing, she is vulnerable.   Even with them,  running along with a cyclist or skier,  may mean huge amounts of air breathed in and out without a chance for air to warm in the lungs.

        Vet treatment  can help.  When (number of days after exposure)  varies with severity.  Have the pads turned light and cracked yet?  Or are they still very tender and swollen?

         Now that she obviously is re-warmed,  the vet can give her pain killers, and antibiotics.  This will keep her from excessively licking and rubbing at toe pads.  Some outer skin will die off-  if a little, it will peel itself off over time.

         If there is real damage,  bacteria can quickly move in to dead and dying tissues,  and licking / rubbing can release the bacteria into nearby healthy tissue,  which then gets diseased and dies.
         At the very least, a vet will call in a pain prescription  and antibiotics,  then you play wait and see.
        Dead tissue will demarcate-  dead will die,  bordering tissue with the help of antibiotics will regain better circulation.

         Then they look at de-briding (DE-BREEDING  pronunc.)  removing any dead tissue, sometimes amputation of toes,  edges of ears, tail.  Some damage in lungs will heal,  lots will permanently scar pleurae (air sacs in lungs.)
         Do call a vet.  The scrips are very important.

        Poor Gracie-  Like goldens,  a big risk is they love to run,  but also,  like to please their owners,  and will put up with getting too cold and numbing out,  or heat prostration and heart failure in warm weather,  because they are eager to please.
         MSPCA-  Angell Memorial  out Huntington to Jamaica Plain,  had lots of experience since they often get dogs left outside with no shelter,  or sports active young adults in Boston's big 18 to 30 pop bump  who do not know dog's limitations.
         Poor Gracie, poor Kar.  Get those antibiotics to reduce threat of pneumonia and  foot pad disease.  This is critical.            Wag
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

         She probably already appreciates the coat and foot warmth.   I like the higher thicker neck portion - so many dog coats cut away round the neck  so one size fits more dogs,  but Gracie's coat looks much warmer.

       Are you back in the bitter cold and wind as we have been for 2 days?  2 pm and it just got up to 7 in a sheltered area, gusty winds too.   Brr.   Even our dogs were out less than 5 minutes, with a line to come in the doggie door forming while some were still getting out,  at 7 am.  5 below.  Pooh.

      Such a good pet mommie you are.  I like what I assume are your pink slip ons by the door.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    I used to have a sheepskin mattress cover. it was incredibly warm.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Thank you, friends!!!

    Just got back from the vet (and having had a flat tire...), and Gracie does NOT have frostbite, after all!  Her pads are cracking slightly, she has a split nail, and all four feet are itchy.

    For the pads, she recommended bag balm which has already helped her immensely.

    For the nail, she gave us antibiotics and cut it very short so there's no pressure on it when she walks.

    For the itchy feet, she said that our changing to Taste of the Wild Duck flavor might be the problem; she could have a duck allergy.  Ironic for a bird dog, but there you have it.  The other cause was road salt, but she hasn't been exposed.  So, we're switching her to the TOTW Turkey version (or chicken) because she didn't itch on Innova Puppy food, and that was mostly chicken.

    Thanks, again, Waggie and Pingo, for helping me through another drama.

    Love,
    ~kar
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

        Hunter orange was chosen because it is unlike any color of an animal anyone would want to shoot,  visible agains brush and foliage,  and visible at a great distance.

         There is nothing intrinsically good about orange.

         If you live on the same part of the planet as I do, there are no 70 lb pink animals in the woods,  and no pink flowering bouganvilla or spirea  in under 40 degree weather.   Dogs have limited color vision.  People can see her just fine, or they should not be out without supervision.  Or full of that much liquor!

        Pink is fine.  A little odd, but it does the job.
        I think she looks embarrassed because she know you are hooting at her,  not because she minds the pink.

    It could be worse.



    Much worse.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Interesting about the duck processing, Waggie, I never considered that.  We're getting their salmon formula (grain free) today to start mixing so she can acclimate nicely.  I figure there won't be much digestive upset going from one Taste of the Wild formula to another.  The salmon formula is supposed to be their easiest to digest for "your sensitive dog."   As we all know, that's Gracie.

    You know who's being rude is your well-meaning friends.  Cajoling anyone into eating what they've prepared is rude.  I am the first to offer a friend something else if they even give a hint of a problem.  YOU will not be rude to refuse it for your health's sake IMO.

    I can't thank you enough for your thorough, thoughtful, and informative posts, not just to me but to the whole community.

    ~kar
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Thanks, Waggie - we try to be good pet parents!  That means a lot coming from you, you know so much about dogs.

    I do think she appreciates the coat, and she might have appreciated the boots if they had stayed on. :(
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    what a cute coat!

    I'm so sorry she got a split nail and itchy paws. That's never fun. Dogs certainly can over-exert themselves. Max does all the time, and he's a less than athletic breed.
    Hope the whole allergy situation has a happy ending. skin & coat supplements dipped in peanut butter do the trick for Max.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pingo. Show pingo's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Kar, as you must remember, I was really surprised by your DH's cross country skiing with Gracie so early in the morning on one of those days with frigid temperatures.
    I am so sorry, Gracie got frost bites. Poor thing. I am sure your DH must be feeling terrible right now. But what do we really know. Some dogs live and function well in snow ridden areas. Maybe when she gets older, the snow and cold weather will not bother her that much. She is still so young. I know they have doggie boots, maybe that will be a solution for you. I never used them, don't even know, how my dog would take to them. But maybe try to use them inside (a few paws at the time) for a couple of days to see, if she will be able to wear them.
    I know, I cannot help you much in any way, but I am praying that Gracie will be well again. Hopefully the frost bites will not be a forever thing. I had one some 15 years ago on one of my big toes, and I am still numb in that area.
    Best to you and Gracie - Pingo

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

         So  happy it is not frostbite after all!    Coincidence -  what seemed like a not-feeling-well virus  probably was. 

         Out near Quabbin, I thought they used little salt-  But drying, irritating for pads for sure.  For our dogs it is not just that there is salt,  but sometimes the large coarse  (for salt)  crystals, still smaller than rocks or pebble,  get up in their pads,  and they worry them.  We will find little cuts and pull out a crystal with tweezers-  dog's solution is to lick til the salt is all on the tongue,  none left to irritate.

        Now that you know super cold is an issue, with booties on order,  at least you will know for next winter.  She is building some callous, probably,  without having pushed over the edge from sore cold paws (but not injured  from actual frostbite.) 

         Better to know/ be forewarned than not-  but she is otherwise in such good health,  she seems to rebound.
         Did the vet give any guidelines on how far Gracie can run along vs  walk at a fast trot, along with DH skiing,  before she needs a rest?   I know X country it is easy to go far and not know it if the terrain is a little hilly but your momentum as a skier gets you down small hills and up the other side,  while a running dog cannot coast "Up", all work.   Same with running along with a bike.  This is where I am aware I do not know black labs enduranceas well as the goldens, springers and snow dogs.  Experience, live and learn.

         My old Springer would go very long distances skiing an old gentle grade railroad/ logging right of way.        But running with a bike,  on the side of roads,  when she was tired and we would be  coasting on up a hill with momentum from the previous downhill,  she would stop at the bottom of the hill, sit,  and when rested start again  5 minutes or 15 to rest.  Not like our goldens who would kill themselves to keep up and please you.

         Changing foods and an allergy -  what a wild card.  Just when you think you have things figured.
          Ours get hives all over and since under their thicker coat,  harder to notice.    Then they got frenzied, started to vomit, you could see hives around lips etc.  We thought - poison in the feed?  some pesticide?  No.  From new flavor kibble  formula with lots of rice.  DH bought it for a change, dumped from bags into our bins,  I never realized. Simply has never been in their diet  for millenia.
          Such a common commercial food mix now,  where they always thrived on corn or barley,  or small amounts of oats, in cooked food or kibble,  not so much good (but not allergies, just diahhrea) from poultry in excess.
           Some breed differences are obvious,  you would never think to have a dachsund keep up with a bike, or skiing.  But diet, exercise needs,  do go to breed.
          Maybe it is the duck,  maybe something that gets in the processing with the duck (like a medicine given to the ducks to keep disease free.)  Ones that end up in pet food were raised for the feathers/down,  and get lots of anti-mite  and other pest stuff to keep the feather coat healthy,  they do not go on to be people food so they are not regulated.

         Time to go back to bed.  From now on I am just going to be rude to friends who use too many spices and hot mustards  in their cooking for my GI track.  They always make a big production,  so I always eat some.  But every time we eat there,  I get up with fierce heartburn.  I need milder curry formulas,  and NOTHING  with hot sauce stirred in.  Maalox by the half bottle.  UGH.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    OK, here she is in her full gear...right before all the boots fell off one at a time as we played fetch.







     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Well, he's not that insecure, LOL!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Pingo, she's had that forlorn look since we picked her up!  Maybe I embarrass her all the time like mommies do. ;)  Yeah, I looked for hunter orange all over, but all I could find were doggie safety vests with no warmth/protection.  You are right; we can't be the only owners looking for it.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    After our frostbite scare and since we've learned that labs really aren't that tolerant to long exposure to cold (thanks, Waggie!) I bought her a coat.  I also have booties (thanks, Pinkkittie), but the toe where she lost a nail is still too tender for a boot to rub against.

    Here's our little pumpkin in her pink coat.  I tried to get hunter orange for her trecks in the woods with DH, but they didn't have it.






     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Oh come on, $220 for a real sheepskin vest for the dog,  he would hardly it notice in the pile of vet bills  and feed store sales slips!  :)
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    OMG, Waggie, LOL!!!  Yeah, I figured the pink would be visible enough, but I think DH would have been happier to have her in the hunter-like gear.  First thing he said when he saw it was, "Was that the only color?"
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Pingo 
         actually the stunning jacket comes from a place in Vancouver Brittish Columbia  that makes fake sheepskin dog vest liners that are excellent for warmth, and real wool and such, real sheepskin people slippers, vests.  Pricey.

         I have ordered large size dog sheepskins  and doggie booties there. Mostly the www.soulcomfortsheepskin.com   people slippers for gifts. And ME.

      But the black and white cover, for the deep chested dog, definitely  California market!

       And big sales from NYC  and Connecticut.  Poochy as poseur.
    Tartain plaids for your whippet, anyone?

         Most of the waterproof nylon shells are blue , black, green, pink, and red nylon there, I believe.

       I pulled the bookmarked site because I remembered  the Lab picture -  gorgeous dog,  not of a runway model personality.   Like Gracie?

    And seriously, for my work - they make real wool sheepskin products for amputees, people with poor circulation.  Wheelchair seat and armrest  covers .
     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Are you even an occasional knitter?  as in making a rib knit cuff?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pingo. Show pingo's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Oh Kar, Gracie looks so so cute all pinked up.
    But truly, she looks kind of embarrassed too. "Look at me, why do I have to wear this darn thing?"
    I am quite surprised, they did not have the hunter orange. I think, that would be a first choice for most. Maybe they were just out of them for that reason. - Pingo
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Waggie, I did see some very beautiful sheep fleece coats for her, but as you can see I didn't want DH to have a heart attack over what we spent.

    Pinkkittie, thanks for adding your well wishes.  Gracie is MUCH better, now.  She likes the Pacific Stream formula as much as she did the Roasted Foul Taste of the Wild, thankfully, and her paws stopped itching almost immediately after the switch.  Her nail is growing back, too, and doesn't seem so tender. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pingo. Show pingo's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Waggie,
    The dog on the pix you posted must be from CA. They have all sorts of doggie costumes there. I couldn't believe my eyes, when I saw what they were selling there for pets - and more so people buying them.
    We saw some at the mall. Then for the fun of it we went to a pet store. OMG!!
    Diamond studded collars, feather enhanced jackets etc. We even saw a doggie bikini. Yes a BIKINI! Imagine that?
    But of course, this is the land - where people have "dog walkers". My son's best friend moved to CA. She is an upcoming writer (and poor) and work at her home, but still she has (and pays for) someone to come and walk her dog twice a day.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pingo. Show pingo's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Kar,
    This is funny, men are men! I think she looks adorable in that pink "costume". She is a lady after all. And Waggie is right, she will be seen. Orange is a color used for "watch out!" Our surveyors use it. You will find jackets, vests, caps and more in that orange color. Even our survey instruments are orange. And we have orange paint in spray cans, they use for marking off areas. Highway cones are orange. I think it just has become the color of "be careful, something is happening here".
    If DH does not like to country ski with Gracie in a pink outfit, you can always buy a orange colored thingy to put on top of her pink.
    Anyway, summer is soon here and she will not need it. But maybe she will still need an orange colored vest though. LOL
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pingo. Show pingo's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    Kar,
    Gracie looks so cute and adorable in her coat and boots. Just remember NOT to play "fetch", when she is wearing her boots. LOL
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Frostbite - help, please

    No, not even occassional.  I do have "knit" and "pearl" in my brain somewhere since my great-grandmother taught me when I was 4 and I actually knit a scarf for my father, but where?!   (Sad story, I gave it to him and told him I'd made it, which I remember, and he told me not to lie - he knew Mammie had made it for me.  So I never knit again and I've long since forgotten.)
     

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