1. You have chosen to ignore posts from heatherv1211. Show heatherv1211's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    In Response to Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???:
    [QUOTE]I say put the collar on yourself and tell us what you think.
    Posted by calmdown[/QUOTE]

    Actually, that is what most people do before deciding whether or not to go with the fence.  Most invisible fence instructions even tell you to do this. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    I know lukes isn't being argumentative for argument's sake, and I appreciate her concern.  Her idealogical distaste for the fence is her right, it just isn't that helpful in making my decision because it's not based on her experience.

    I'd never leave Gracie alone.  If I were going to leave the house I'd put her in her dog shed that has a crate and doggie door to a chain link kennel so she can stretch and go to the bathroom in a protected environment.  ...when it's finished.  In the meantime, she has to go in her crate inside while I'm gone.  She's quite comfortable in there...I've spied on her. :)

    The fence would be just for when I'm home and only during the day.  I just don't want to tie her up when I'm home because, yes, wild animals can and do go through our back yard.  Mostly at night, though.

    Thanks, again, everyone.  I'm still not quite sure what we're gonna do...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from lukes58. Show lukes58's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    i wasn't suggesting it would make it more likely -- just saying that if you leave your dog outside alone in a yard with an invisible fence, the fence doesn't prevent wild animals from getting in -- whereas a tall 'real fence' would

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from lukes58. Show lukes58's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    I am not a trouble maker -- i am a responsible dog owner who has done a ton of research since adopting my dog from the shelter -- i feed raw, do minimal vaccinations, treat her homeopathically, take her to training classes, walk her (off leash at a local high school that allows off leash walking and is rather large) at least 4 hours a day (and i work full time), socialize her with both other dogs and humans -- just because i haven't tried to zap my dog to keep her contained doesn't mean i can't have an opinion that it is cruel and wrong -- again, her dog is a living breathing creature -- she loves her dog -- i think she is making a mistake --
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    In Response to Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???:
    [QUOTE]I know lukes isn't being argumentative for argument's sake, and I appreciate her concern.  Her idealogical distaste for the fence is her right, it just isn't that helpful in making my decision because it's not based on her experience. I'd never leave Gracie alone.  If I were going to leave the house I'd put her in her dog shed that has a crate and doggie door to a chain link kennel so she can stretch and go to the bathroom in a protected environment.  ...when it's finished.  In the meantime, she has to go in her crate inside while I'm gone.  She's quite comfortable in there...I've spied on her. :) The fence would be just for when I'm home and only during the day.  I just don't want to tie her up when I'm home because, yes, wild animals can and do go through our back yard.  Mostly at night, though. Thanks, again, everyone.  I'm still not quite sure what we're gonna do...
    Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]

    I think a lot of it depends on the quality of the collar and the sensitivity of the dog.  If I had a dog that was afraid of it's own shadow, then I wouldn't use it.  But for the average non-terrier, the invisible fence should be OK.  I think the invisible fence would be more effective if used with a younger dog.  The bad experience of trying to go through the fence may be more easily imprinted on a young with the dog eventually unable to remember why it shouldn't leave the yard, just that it shouldn't.

    You could always teach the dog that it is OK to leave the yard when it is on leash by first walking past the invisible fence with the fence turned off and the dog on leash.  Turn the fence on, remove the leash and allow the dog to learn it can't go past the invisible fence without a leash.  I think it will be important to walk the dog on leash past the boundary first.

    I know you have a lab, but I would never trust an invisible fence on a terrier or a hound.  The prey instinct is too strong in those dogs.  They'd be more likely to put up with the jolt to go after a squirrel of follow the scent of a raccon.

    I have ecollars for my dogs, although not for invisible fences.  Different collars are better than others for a couple of different reasons.  Collars with variable settings are the best.  I think collars that use regular batteries tend to give off a more consistent jolt than collars with rechargeable batteries.  When I use a rechargeable collar, I always test it on my hand before putting it on the dog.  Sometimes a level 2 is perfect, but other times level 2 is real weak.  I haven't been able to figure the cause of the variation, but I always test the rechargeable collars on my hand.

    If you get a collar with a rechargeable battery, make sure that you can replace the battery.  Rechargeable batteries will eventually go bad.  If you can't replace the battery, you'll have to toss the collar and get a brand new one - and they are not cheap.  If you get a rechargeable collar, you might want to consider getting 2 collars, allowing you to have one on the charger at all times.

    And as far as cruelty goes, my dog gets very excited when he sees me grab the ecollar because he knows that it means a walk - I have a terrier with a very strong prey instinct.  When he sees a squirrel, he goes ballistic.  And if I'm not careful, he'll bolt after a squirrel potentiall pulling the leash out of my hand.  I use the ecollar to teach him that trying to go after squirrels when he is on leash, is not acceptable.  It's been an effective training method.  I had tried one of those Gentle Leads - it's a collar that loops over his nose so that when he pulls, it pulls his head down.  Whenever he saw me grab it, he would run from me.  But when he sees the ecollar, he gets excited. When I start to put the ecollar on him, he stands with his neck extended to make it easier for me.  The point being, he is not afraid of the e-collar.

    I would talk to my trainer about the best way to introduce the collar.  The last thing you want to do is make your dog afraid to go outside and a good trainer should be able to tell you the best approach to use.

    Gun Dog Supply is good online source for e-collars.  They have a wide range of products and are honest (IMHO) in their assessments.  They have a wider range of options than Petco or PetSmart.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BE2Be. Show BE2Be's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    On another note, we have a 28 lb pup and were considering an invisible fence for our front (large) yard.  (We have a regular fence in the back).  We opted against it because where we live it is very woodsy and we see wild animals in the yard on a semi regular basis.  Although we do try to watch her when she's outside, we feel more comfortable having her outside alone in the back yard because it would be fairly difficult for an animal to jump the fence, but we do not feel the same way about the front because it is quite easy for animals to travel through the woods into the front yard area.  We were concerned that our pup would be in danger if an animal - such as a large racoon - wandered into her space. With a 55 lb (and growing!) dog, you probably have fewer safety concerns with animals like racoons etc. but just wanted to offer something to think about...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pingo. Show pingo's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    Kar, I believe you are on the right track. Ignore lukes58, seems like someone, who is just here to make trouble.
    My neighbor (the one who build a run for their lab) later on put in an electric fence. It worked just great. Their dog was so much more happy there than in her fenced in run. After a while the dog got used to the limits, and they didn' t even need to turn on the fence.
    We didn't mind their dog in our yard, but they mostly installed it for the dog's safety. However, they only let her out, while being at home  - but the dog loved the freedom, and it tired her out plenty. If I ever have a dog again, I would not hesitate to install one, but I think it should only be for larger dogs, that need a lot of exercise. I can' t see it necessary for smaller lap dogs at all.
    Good luck with your new project!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from calmdown. Show calmdown's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    Also, if there are any live wires around the house, touch them with your tongue just to get an idea as to the fun your putting the animal through. Why don't you just sell the dog rather than torturing the thing? I guess there are people who get a kick out of doing these things to animals like Michael Vick.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from calmdown. Show calmdown's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    I say put the collar on yourself and tell us what you think.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    In Response to Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???:
    [QUOTE]Thanks Kar : ) Pink was kind enough to give me a heads up about Calmdown. I find these forums so enlightening that I am amazed someone would go out of their way to act like that, but I guess it takes all kinds.  Lukes is def being sincere and my comments were not directed at her at all.  She has a strong opinion and I respect that as she didn't get nasty at all.  I know you ALWAYS do what is right for Gracie...
    Posted by ambergirl[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, it boggles my mind that people come on here specifically to be nasty and that they find it amusing (presumably).  It reminds me of programmers who bother to create viruses...why?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from lukes58. Show lukes58's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    well you certainly have the trees to try a friendly fence --

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ambergirl. Show ambergirl's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    I don't understand all the animosity being directed at Kargiver.  You obviously know nothing about her as a dog owner. I do as I actually read what she writes.  She only wants to leave the dog alone in the yard, WHEN SHE IS HOME.  Please give us facts regarding dogs dying from an electric fence.  Back up your claim.  Kargive is one of the most caring and concientious dog owners I know. It is a shame in all your I know everything about dogs argument, you feel the need to get nasty. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    lukes, Friendly Fence sounds interesting.  We have some woods, but also want to keep her out of the garden that is in the middle of the backyard.

    I'll post a couple of pics...

    Regardless, I know your heart is with me on this.  Thanks for your input.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from lukes58. Show lukes58's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    nope - i have never used an ecollar or an electric fence and never will - i have a pup who is a mutt - mix of black lab, boxer and pitt bull -- as we know, pitt bulls can tolerate more pain than the usual dog -- just because she can tolerate it doesn't mean i have to use it -- i believe in other kinds of training -- and we are not talking about a service dog here -- we are talking about a beloved pet -- whom i believe kar loves as much as i love my dog -- i gave my opinion, based on things i've read, shows i've seen with people using the electric fence, seeing an actual fence in action, etc.  -- each to his own -- i still believe it is cruel -- you may choose not to believe it -- that's fine with me
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    I took these photos from left to right.  There's not much to show the scale except the trees in the back.   They are really tall, old trees.






     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from calmdown. Show calmdown's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    This is the epitome of lazy. Why do people get the electric torture fence? So they can chuck the dog out in the yard and forget about the thing. The owner has a reason to not spend time with the dog. Here is a wild idea, how about spending time with the dog and training the dog. I did it. My dog doesn't charge at people, run away or pull the leash out of my hand like I am a 60 pound weakling. Stop jolting the dogs heart until he falls into a coma and actually spend (gasp!) time with the dog.  
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from princess-cal. Show princess-cal's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    I have tried the electric collar.  I tried it on myself first, and it didn't hurt.  However, we never ended up needed it as we just continued to work with our dog and he is getting there.

    Good luck Kar - she'll be fine.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    Thanks, ambergirl, et al.  I appreciate your kind words and defense.  But, don't worry a bit.  Calmdown isn't worth your time, and lukes is being sincere despite her not having any experience - I can take it for what I think it's worth, as always.  Calmdown is a troublemaker on every thread he's on so I'm not offended.  In fact, if I knew he saw the title of this thread and didn't come barking in (get it, HA!), now, then I'd be offended.  (Nice try, calmdown - you can't get to me.)

    I've been on the site that DWL suggested, and as soon as DH lets me know how much wire to order I'll be getting it.  That site also has good training tips that make a lot of sense.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    In Response to Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???:
    [QUOTE]hey, you asked for an opinion -- i gave you one -- sorry if it wasn't what you wanted to hear -- i think they are cruel -- one of the words you used in your original question -- don't ask the question if you don't really want the answer
    Posted by lukes58[/QUOTE]

    Is your opinion based on experience?  Have you ever used an ecollar or felt the shock from an ecollar?  Dogs are not people and their threshold for pain is much, much higher than that of a person.  To make a blanket statement that ecollars are cruel is ignorant.  Ecollars can be set to an very low level, giving off no more than a tickle.  Pretty effective means of communicating when trying to train a hunting dog from afar or trying to train a dog that is deaf. 

    What's more cruel - using an ecollar to train your dog not to bolt after squirrels or running the risk of your dog bolting, pulling the leash out of your hand and getting run over by a car?



     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    psst... Amber, calmdown is a troll who frequents these boards and who has nothing but nasty things to say, no matter the topic at hand. Ignore him and he will go away.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from lukes58. Show lukes58's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    here's something else you could try

    Another alternative for extended periods outside is the Friendly Fence. This is a fence that was originally designed to keep deer out and is constructed from high-strength and UV light resistant polypropylene plastic. The makers of this fence say it is “all but invisible to the human eye from as close as 15-20 feet away”. The fence comes in rolls of material that is secured to posts or trees by using zip ties. Ground stakes ensure that your dog can not push under the fence. Owners of aggressive dogs can use a nylon tension cable to reinforce the fence and there is a version that is 65% stronger than the standard fencing. The fence comes in heights from 5 – 7 feet. There is also a chew guard that can be attached to the bottom of the fence. The approximate cost of a Friendly Fence is between $159 - $345 depending on the size of your dog and the area you want to enclose. For more information on Friendly Fences you can go to their web site at www.friendlyfence.com. You also could use chicken wire between posts for a similar alternative.

    The pros of this type of fence are:
    ß They are a humane alternative to electric fences.
    ß They are a cheaper alternative to electric fences.
    ß They provide a more secure area than electric fences do.

    The cons of this type of fence are:
    ß The installation is more complicated than electronic fences.
    ß They are not completely invisible and if trees aren’t used there will be visible posts.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ambergirl. Show ambergirl's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    I know how good Kargiver is with Gracie, so it upset me.  Thanks for the heads up Pink : )

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ambergirl. Show ambergirl's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    Thanks Kar : ) Pink was kind enough to give me a heads up about Calmdown. I find these forums so enlightening that I am amazed someone would go out of their way to act like that, but I guess it takes all kinds.  Lukes is def being sincere and my comments were not directed at her at all.  She has a strong opinion and I respect that as she didn't get nasty at all.  I know you ALWAYS do what is right for Gracie...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    DWL, as always, your advice and information is excellent.  Thank you so much.

    Don't worry about lukes' comments as far as I'm concerned, anyway.  She seems to have a preconceived notion that it's cruel and will not be dissuaded despite all this personal experiential evidence to the contrary.  I've also read 45 reviews on the Innotek Basic Fence, and the lowest rating it got was one 3/5 star rating, and it wasn't lowered due to the dog experiencing pain.  It was something about the collar not working right.  44 reviews were 4 and 5 stars.  Could they all be pet hating freaks who delight in torturing their beloved pets?  I doubt it.

    Off to Gun Dog Supply...  :)
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from calmdown. Show calmdown's posts

    Re: Invisible fence - will it be traumatic and cruel???

    People who can't hold on to the leash should not own dogs. Why even have a leash if you are too weak to hold on to it? 
     
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