1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    What you might consider the 'den' and what the dog considers the 'den' are not necessarily the same thing.  But until the dog gains the ability to speak, it's not something worth debating - I don't care how talented an animal psychologist, vet or petlover is, he/she cannot read the animal's mind.  If you leave the crate door open, and the dog likes to hang out in it, logic dictates that the dog likes the crate and feels safe in it, so just go w/ the flow. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from teacherinmass. Show teacherinmass's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    Thank you for all the advice. I am very nervous about doing the best for our girl and she seems happy and healthy. When I came home today after she was in the crate for nearly 8 hours, she was dead asleep. I think I got nervous yesterday because my boyfriend is away on business and I am soley in charge of pet care instead of having someone to bounce ideas off of. I can understand the large varitety of opinions on crates. sounds like there isn't one right answer, but just what works for your dog. At this point, when we don't know each other better, I think she is safe in the crate. In time, I'm sure we'll be ready to consider if she would be ok in the house on her own.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    teacher, you are doing right by her simply by considering all these things so carefully.  Caring enough to ask these things, doing your research, trying things you expect to work, watching her for her overall response, and adusting the plan as necessary is all any loving pet parent can do.  You're doing right by her.  I know it's unnerving and can feel overwhelming to have a creature's well being under your control, but you're doing great already, and she'll continue to have a wonderful life with you and your bf.  Try to relax and enjoy having her, don't let undue stress ruin what could be a fun time of getting to know her.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dog-lady. Show dog-lady's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    In Response to Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?:

    In Response to Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day? : If you're anti-crate that's fine.  But, a den cannot be the whole house by objective definition.  Spaciousness actually defeats the anxiety-busting purpose of a real den of a dog in the wild.  Her inner wild dog prefers a sleeping area that is just big enough to sleep comfortably because it cuts down on the area needed to be defended, instinctually speaking.
    Posted by kargiver



    Not sure who you are speaking to as I'm not the only poster here that said they don't use crates!

    I actually have an open mind on the subject and posted information pro and con.

     In the wild they sleep in a pack all bundled up together not in a cage!

      Only the omega would sleep alone isolated from the others.

      Wolf Hollow in Ipswich (a great place to take kids btw) explains the  pack/hierarchy thing with canines, it's actually very interesting.

      Anyway different things work for different dogs and owners.  Nuff said!

    http://www.wolfhollowipswich.org/

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    Their are a ton of reasons to crate train a dog.  Whether or not it works for the dog shouldn't play into it. 

    Crates are a safe zone for dogs.  If the dog gets stressed, it can go to it's crate.  If you need to put the dog away (the repairman is coming), it can be put into the familar and secure space of its crate.  Being crate trained means the crate is one less area of stress when having to fly with your dog.  Dog needs to be boarded, experience in a crate is one less thing for the dog to stress out about.  If the dog has to stay in the hospital, having been crate trained gives the dog one less thing to be stressed about.

    Owners aren't doing their dogs any favors by not crate training them.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from teacherinmass. Show teacherinmass's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    So I'm home sick today. I stuck to our usual morning routine and then collapsed on the couch with an awful head cold. My girl sat next to me for awhile and then got up, went in her crate, and fell fast asleep. She's been there since 8 (the door is open). I feel so much better knowing that she really does spend her day resting and not  being upset to be in her crate.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dog-lady. Show dog-lady's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    That's great,  sounds like you have a really nice dog that's happy to have a good home.

      All those walks you give her and playtime are excellent for keeping her calm. I take it you haven't had her very long, it gets easier!

        Another reason people should consider an adult rescue dog instead of a puppy!

       PS: You may find that when you don't feel well they instinctively know  and want to lie next to you in an attempt to comfort you, they may even try to wash your face,  they are natural healers!

       You probably don't remember the group   "Three Dog Night"  but the expression comes from a saying in Alaska regarding how cold the nights are, in other words it will take three dogs in the bed to keep a person warm at night! 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    In Response to Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?:
    [QUOTE]So I'm home sick today. I stuck to our usual morning routine and then collapsed on the couch with an awful head cold. My girl sat next to me for awhile and then got up, went in her crate, and fell fast asleep. She's been there since 8 (the door is open). I feel so much better knowing that she really does spend her day resting and not  being upset to be in her crate.
    Posted by teacherinmass[/QUOTE]

    Sorry you're sick, but that's great it afforded you the peace of mind you deserve for being so conscientious and concerned. 

    I worried so much about everything when we brought Gracie home, but as we got to know each other it got less nerve wracking.  I began to have more faith that she would be able to communicate her needs effectively to me, and she got comfortable knowing I'd understand her and take care of things for her.  It's the mutual trust that grows between you that makes the ultimate difference in your comfort level, I think.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dog-lady. Show dog-lady's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    http://www.metaphordogs.org/Dogs/entries/threedog.html

    The expression may have originated in the Australian Outback, not Alaska!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from julharu. Show julharu's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    4 years ago I got my first dog and went through the same thing.  My husband kept telling me that "he's fine, he's just a dog" but I wanted to make a perfect life for him.  We kept him crated during the day and at night for the first year and a half that we had him.  He's never done any damage or given us reason to not trust him, but during the day when we're at work we leave him in a room with a couch and a window where he can't get into trouble. 

    It seems like you are giving your new furry friend a wonderful life!  He's so lucky that you found him :)

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from northeastern1. Show northeastern1's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    In Response to Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?:
    [QUOTE]I consider the entire home the den,  not just the cage!  
    Posted by dog-lady[/QUOTE]

    Your also not a dog. I consider my whole home my home, but when I want rest I go to my cave (bedroom).

    The dog may consider your home its home, but they usually want their own private place they can feel safe in.

    Of course all dogs are different and like to spend varying amounts of time in a crate. One of my dogs loves the couch, my other dog spends a lot of her time in her crate. Another thing we should keep in mind is that dogs typically sleep double the amount of time humans do.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ruthcatrin. Show ruthcatrin's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    We crate trained our Tibetan Mastiff at the recommendation of his breeder, as the breed is capable of being highly distructive (the stories she told....).  Apollo definetly prefers his crate in certian situations.  We rarely close the door with him in it now unless we have a repair person over who's not comfortable with him, but he regularly sleeps in there by his own choice. 

    Personally I think the choice to crate train or not is a personal one, but there are some definete plusses to doing so even if you don't end up using the crate much once the dog is adult, most, if not all, of those plusses have already been mentioned so I don't bother to repost them. 

    And I have to agree that the whole house is not the "den" as such, which doesn't mean that your dog isn't going to act protective of it, but protection of the owners property is not the same thing as the dog considering it their den.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    Hey, Ruth!

    Gracie definitely protects our entire property as her home.  Her crate, on the other hand, is her personal space, one she chooses for various reasons.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from teacherinmass. Show teacherinmass's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    Kar, that is quite the crate!! Makes ours look like a cage... do you mind sharing where you got it?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    Thanks!  I wish I could tell you where we got it so you could purchase one. But, after searching high and low for a crate like this and not being able to find one this size (there are much smaller ones that double as end tables), DH built this one such that the measurements on the inside are of the wire XL crate.  I ordered a crate pan for the MidWest XL, and it fits perfectly.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ruthcatrin. Show ruthcatrin's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    Hi Kar! I love that crate too, makes me wish I was handier so I could make my own. We had to go with the ginormus humungus Midwest crate for Apollo cause he's not full grown and at 9months he was already brushing his back on the top of the XL, but when he sleeps he curls up into a ball and doesn't even use half the floor space. And let me tell you that crate takes up SPACE. On the other hand if it was wood it would probly also weigh a ton, so maybe its just as well!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    Hi, Ruth! :)  You're right - you couldn't build one like this for a dog much bigger than Gracie (77 lbs) unless you were to build it where it was going to be permanently.  This one weighs about 150 lbs and barely fit through the front door!  I think that's probably why we couldn't find one available for purchase that's bigger than side table size (MidWest Medium).  I'm sure Apollo is perfectly comfy in the crate he has.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dog-lady. Show dog-lady's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?


    What Is Crating?

    A crate is a portable "kennel" that is just large enough to contain the dog it is intended for, made of either metal or plastic. "Crating" is the practice of using this kennel for training purposes, usually in housetraining and houseproofing a dog.

    Crating is a controversial topic. There are those who believe that crate training is indefensible and others who believe that it is a panacea. The reality is likely somewhere in between.

    What does the dog think?

    First, you must understand what the crate represents to the dog. Dogs are by nature den creatures -- and the crate, properly introduced, is its den. It is a safe haven where it does not need to worry about defending territory. It is its own private bedroom which it absolutely will not soil if it can help it. Judicious use of the crate can alleviate a number of problems, stop others from ever developing, and aid substantially in housetraining.

    Where is the crate? It should be around other people. Ideally, set it up in the bedroom near you. Have the dog sleep in it at night. Dogs are social and like to be around their people. Don't force it into the crate. Feed your dog in the crate.

    Can they be abused?

    Certainly. Anything intended for a dog can be abused. That doesn't make it wrong; it does mean you need to know what you are doing. Things to remember:
    • The crate must be large enough for the dog to stand and turn around.
    • A puppy should not be left in for more than 3 or 4 hours at a time.
    • An adult dog should not spend more than about 8 hours a day in one.
    • No dog should be forced to remain in a soiled crate. You must rearrange time spent in the crate to avoid this happening in the first place.
    • Not all dogs require constant crating; most can be slowly weaned off once they get older and you can trust them more in the house,
    • Properly introduce dogs, especially older dogs, to the crate. Most dogs like their crates, but not all do so immediately.
    • Even when you are no longer using the crate regularly, leave it available for napping. A crate trained dog is always more easily handled: in the car, at the vets, when travelling, etc.

    Prices and recommendations

    A plastic airline approved (leakproof) crate will run from $10 to $75 depending on the size. These are the cheapest prices available. If flying with a dog, most airlines will sell a crate at near-wholesale prices. Vendors at dog shows often have good prices, especially for slightly imperfect ones. Pet stores sell them at astronomical prices. Mail order stores have competitive prices (but watch out for added shipping costs), and they sell wire mesh cages. Wire mesh is comparable in price to plastic airline crates, but the sizing is different.

    Wire cages are not as appealing to dogs that like the safe, enclosed nature of a crate, but they have better ventilation for use in warm places. You might, for example, have a plastic crate in your house and a wire one for the car. Since many models fold up, they are also often easier to transport and store.

    The crate should be large enough for the dog to lie down, stand up and turn around in comfortably, but not large enough for the dog to relieve itself at one end and sleep at the other. You may buy a crate sized for an adult dog and block off part of it with a chew-proof obstacle until the dog grows into it, or you may buy a succession of crates as the dog grows.

    If you use a crate in your car, consider something like the Crate Mate, which is a heavy pouch that attaches permanently to a plastic crate. It has a clear window for information about the dog, including owners name/address/etc./vet info/medication info/etc. All this is in red thirty point type. There's also room for 3-4 days supply of food, medication, etc., leashes, collars, even a water bottle. They're in bright colors so they can't be missed. Order from Custom Dog Supplies (see Resources) or make your own.


    Proper use of a crate

    Crating a puppy or dog often seems unappealing to humans, but it is not cruel to the dog. A dog's crate is similar to a child's playpen, except it has a roof (dogs can jump out of a playpen) and is chewproof. Also, a crate is not suitable for activity or exercise, but rather for rest. Dogs are carnivores and do not need to be constantly active during the daytime, like people (as gatherers) do.

    If a crate is properly introduced to a dog (or puppy) the dog will grow to think of the crate as its den and safe haven. Most dogs that are crated will use the open crate as a resting place.

    The major use of a crate is to prevent the dog from doing something wrong and not getting corrected for it. It is useless to correct a dog for something that it has already done; the dog must be "caught in the act". If the dog is out of its crate while unsupervised, it may do something wrong and not be corrected, or worse yet, corrected after the fact. If the dog is not corrected, the dog may develop the problem behavior as a habit (dogs are creatures of habit), or learn that the it can get away with the behavior when not immediately supervised. A dog that rarely gets away with anything will not learn that if nobody is around it can get away with bad behaviors.

    If the dog is corrected after the fact, it will not associate the correction with the behavior, and will begin to think that corrections are arbitrary, and that the owner is not to be trusted. This results in a poor relationship and a dog that does not associate corrections, which are believed arbitrary, with bad behaviors even when they are applied in time. This cannot be overemphasized: a dog's lack of trust in its owner's corrections is one of the major sources of problems between dogs and their owners.

    A secondary advantage of a crate is that it minimizes damage done by a dog (especially a young one) to the house, furniture, footwear etc. This reduces costs and aggravation and makes it easier for the dog and master to get along. It also protects the dog from harm by its destruction: ingestion of splinters or toy parts, shock from chewing through wires, etc.

    A young dog should be placed in its crate whenever it cannot be supervised.

    If a dog is trained in puppyhood with a crate, it will not always require crating. Puppies or untrained dogs require extensive crating. After a year or so of crate training, many dogs will know what to do and what not to, and will have good habits. At this time crating might only be used when the dog needs to be out of the way, or when traveling.


    Crating do's and don'ts

    • Do think of the crate as a good thing. In time, your dog will too.
    • Do let the dog out often enough so that it is never forced to soil the crate.
    • Do let the dog out if it whines because it needs to eliminate. If you know it doesn't have to eliminate, correct it for whining or barking.
    • Do clean out the crate regularly, especially if you've put in a floor and you have flea problems.
    • Don't punish the dog if it soils the crate. It is miserable enough and probably had to.
    • Don't use the crate as a punishment.
    • Don't leave the dog in the crate for a long time after letting it eat and drink a lot. (because the dog will be uncomfortable and may have to eliminate in the crate.)
    • Don't leave the dog in the crate too much. Dogs sleep and rest a lot, but not all the time. They need play time and exercise. When you are at home, they should not be in the crate (except at night when they are still very young puppies). If necessary, put a leash on your pup and tie it around your waist while you're at home.
    • Don't check to see if your dog is trustworthy in the house (unsupervised, outside of the crate) by letting the dog out of the crate for a long time. Start with very short periods and work your way up to longer periods.
    • Don't ever let the dog grow unaccustomed to the crate. An occasional stint even for the best behaved dog will make traveling and special situations that require crating easier.
    • Don't put pillows or blankets in the crate without a good reason. Most dogs like it cooler than their human companions and prefer to stretch out on a hard, cool surface. Besides providing a place to urinate on, some dogs will simply destroy them. A rubber mat or a piece of peg-board cut to the right size might be a good compromise (be sure to clean under any floor covering frequently).

    Decreasing Crate Time

    Remember, your ultimate goal in using the crate is to produce an easily housetrained dog and one that can be trusted in the house. Therefore, you should consider the use of a crate for a dog to be temporary. You are always working toward the time when you do not need to use a crate extensively.

    With housetraining, it is only a matter of time for the pup to outgrow the need for a crate. As as puppy gets older, it will naturally develop ways of telling you that it needs to go (but probably not before about 4-6 months, be patient), especially if you encourage this. As this starts to develop, you can decrease the crate usage. Always keep a close eye on your pup -- the trouble you take now will pay big dividends later. If you need to, put a leash on your pup and attach it to your waist. That keeps the pup from wandering off into trouble. By the time your puppy is about 6-8 months, he should be able to sleep through the night either in an open crate or a dog bed.

    Many breeds, especially the larger and more active ones, will need to be crated during their adolescence until they can be trusted in the home, if you cannot leave them outside in the yard while you are gone. There are several things you need to keep in mind. The first is that this type of crating is never to be a permanent arrangement except for those rare cases where the dog proves completely unreliable. While this does happen, it's more common for the dog to be sufficiently mature by the time they are two or so to be left alone in the house.

    To make the transition between keeping your dog in the crate and leaving him out when you are at work, start preparing your dog on weekends. Leave him in your house for an hour and then come back. Maybe it needs to be fifteen minutes. Whatever. Find the time that works, and make a habit of leaving him unsupervised in the house for that long. Be sure to praise him when you come back. (Leave the crate open -- available but open -- while you are gone.) When you know the dog is reliable for this period of time, gradually add 15-30 minute increments to the dog's "safe time." Don't be surprised if this takes months or even a year.

    Now, there are some dogs that are never reliable when left inside. This might include dogs that were rescued, dogs that have separation anxiety, dogs that destroy things indiscriminately, or who mark or otherwise eliminate in the house.


    Does everyone use a crate?

    Of course not. There are many who think they are cruel and will not use them. People in Europe tend not to use them. People who have not heard of using them won't generally use them. If you have an outside yard with a fence or a secure kennel you many not need to use them.

    They are extremely useful. But they are not the only means to achieve housetraining or safety in the house or car. They are, in the opinion of many, one of the best and easiest ways of doing so, with many side benefits.  Crating Your Dog FAQ
    Cindy Moore, cindy@k9web.com

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mkirchne. Show mkirchne's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    i think it sounds like you're doing a great job!  the fact that you're so worried about it definitely speaks volumes about your love and devotion to your dog.

    one person mentioned feeding the dog before the morning walk to make sure she can go to the bathroom.  one thing to think of though is it wouldn't be a good idea to feed before the walk if you are going to be allowing any serious running or playing right after the feeding.  large breed dogs can be prone to stomach bloat, which is when the stomach twists around inside their body, and running and playing actively on a full stomach is what can cause this.  if you're just going to be doing a long walk, on-leash, then feeding before the walk is probably fine.

    also, kudos to adopting a shelter dog!  love hearing this!  our dog is a rescue too and the sweetest dog ever!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    In Response to Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?:
    [QUOTE]i think it sounds like you're doing a great job!  the fact that you're so worried about it definitely speaks volumes about your love and devotion to your dog. one person mentioned feeding the dog before the morning walk to make sure she can go to the bathroom.  one thing to think of though is it wouldn't be a good idea to feed before the walk if you are going to be allowing any serious running or playing right after the feeding.  large breed dogs can be prone to stomach bloat, which is when the stomach twists around inside their body, and running and playing actively on a full stomach is what can cause this.  if you're just going to be doing a long walk, on-leash, then feeding before the walk is probably fine. also, kudos to adopting a shelter dog!  love hearing this!  our dog is a rescue too and the sweetest dog ever!
    Posted by mkirchne[/QUOTE]

    I don't agree with feeding before the walk.  I use the walk for training and to teach obedience.  A hungry dog is going to be more food motivated and easier to train.  And even if the dog is naturally food motivated, being hungry adds an additional level of motivation particularly when there are distractions.

    The walk is also a type of "work" for the dog.  A wolf would wake up, hunt, eat, play, go back to sleep.  For a dog, the walk replaces hunting.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    If you can feed the dog 1/2 a meal as soon as you get up and walk him gently on a leash as long after he eats as possible (if you can get ready for work while he digests instead of taking him first) he shouldn't be at that high a risk for bloat, and he would be more likely to eliminate than if you didn't feed him anything first.  Of course, no running or hard play like fetch because bloat IS a real concern.  If the dog is leash trained, he shouldn't need to be hungry and, therefore, highly interested in treats to have a decent, well-behaved walk.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from teacherinmass. Show teacherinmass's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    Thanks for all the advice and reassurance. I especially felt at ease by the part of the second crating article that mentions that many active dogs aren't reliable on their own until after 2 years old.

    Kar, I do love that crate... so much more appealing looking than the traditional ones. Maybe a spring project :)

    The walking then feeding or feeding than walking... a complex issue. We're going to stick to walking then feeding for now. She's not having any issues with going in her crate and often does go to the bathroom in the afternoon, though not immediatley after we take her out and then again after dinner. I am concerned about the stomach twisting stuff if the activity is too vigorous (occasionally, she gets to go on a morning run when her people aren't too tired) and also on keeping her motivated when we're out walking (she's getting better on the leash  but still needs some work, which we're doing through treats).
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    Thanks, tim (is that abrev OK?).  If you're interested in more photos of the building process, I have the whole thing pictorially documented.  If your dog is more than 80 lbs, though, and would require a bigger crate than a MidWest XL, it's not feasible to build one like this.  I have more info if you're serious about building one.  Feel free to write me at kargiverbdc at gmail dot com.

    You're doing great.  Accidents happen sometimes no matter how hard you try to prevent them.  Try not to stress so much that you can't enjoy the process of getting to know her and understanding and anticipating her needs.  She's so lucky to have such a conscientious owner.  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ruthcatrin. Show ruthcatrin's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    Older thread, but we were discussing it.  A picture of Apollo wedging himself in the back of his crate rather than spreading out.  Its a little hard to see in the photo, but both is head and butt are wedged tightly against the sides.  He'd have tons of room if he'd turn the other directon, but he never does when he's sleeping.



     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: New Dog Owner- Does this sounds ok for a typical dog day?

    Great photo, ruth, I don't remember seeing it before.

    Funny, Gracie, too, curls up way in the back of her rather large crate to sleep like this.  But, like Apollo, she has the space to stretch out if she wants.  Too bad BDC cuts the right side of photos off!
     
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