Posters! I need advice!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wanda102. Show Wanda102's posts

    Posters! I need advice!

    Long time lurker and first time poster here, but I really am in a bind.  Or well, i will be in a bind, come September.  Right now I am between two apartments, the one here in Boston, and the one i signed the lease on in April in Los Angeles, where I'm moving in September.  My best friend (let's call her Donna) is already out there, keeping the kettle warm for me, as it were.  Cue the entrance of our other friend.  This girl, let's call her Amy, is really nice, a little bit older than both of us (we're in our early twenties), and we both know her from our time in Boston.  Now she and her twin sister live in LA, as well as (obviously) Donna.

    Cut to a few weeks ago, when Amy calls me up out of the blue and says shes in Boston for a bit recuperating from an accident, and she'll be going back to LA in September.  I suggest we take a plane together, and we never really get in touch again.  Then i find out that she already went back, didnt have a job, and somehow managed to get scammed out of a 1st month's rent check on a craigslist ad.  How someone decides its smart to pay someone before you actually see where you're moving to is beyond me, but I suppose that's not the point.  Amy is in a tough spot.  She can't stay with her sister because there's too many people living there already, and she's out close to a thousand dollars.

    So she calls Donna, who then calls me and asks if we could/should put her up in my (currently vacant) spot at our apartment for a couple weeks until she can find a new place.  You see, sometimes, Donna and I are uncommonly nice people; we rescue cats, we help old ladies, we save the world from nuclear bombs, you know. The usual.  So i say of course, let her camp out, help her hunt for a new apartment.

    Flash! It's now today, and I get a call from Donna at 4am Boston time saying that the fire alarm went off in our place because Amy left the oven on at 500 degrees and then went to sleep. And that Donna's wine glasses are mysteriously getting broken.  AND that Amy invited some strange guy over to our apartment without Donna's permission or her presence, and offered to let him spend the night.

    My question stems from this:  Donna is at her wits end; she can't sleep from worrying about what will happen next, but Amy is in a bad spot emotionally (she mentioned being depressed and suicidal to Donna the other night), and we don't know how to proceed.  She's not helping with the rent, and she's basically freeloading at Donna's expense.  But we feel terrible just tossing her out, and we can't seem to find a way to ask her to go without seeming cruel.  Please, fellow posters, what should we do?  I can only help by giving advice, because i'm not out there yet, help!

    (sorry to be so long-winded. verbosity is why we're thinking i should go write things on the West Coast. Laughing)
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    It might seem like a gray decision.  But, in fact, it's black and white.  Kick her out.  She IS having a hard time emotionally, but that is not an excuse for her bad behavior and for her taking advantage of her nice friends.  It's NOT nice to ENABLE bad behavior.  So, if you are truly nice, you need to let her stand on her own two feet and take responsibility for her usury nature.

    Women in general, not just you two, are "uncommonly nice."  But, how "nice" is defined is usually a big problem.  Sometimes the uncomfortable, "mean" thing is the nicest thing in disguise.  Recognize that and you truly are a very nice person.  Miss it, and you're a used fool who isn't actually helping anyone.

    GL!

    ~kar
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from toytrumpet. Show toytrumpet's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    I suspect you (Donna) are actually going to have a tough time getting this lady to leave.  I don't know how you handle that if push comes to shove, other than legally with police.  I wouldn't worry about losing her friendship or what she thinks of both of you - sounds to me that this lady is one of the "takers" that enter all our lives.  Believe me, she'll find someone else to play off of.

    Re-reading your post - what about her twin sister?  If she won't help her, there's your first clue right there.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wanda102. Show Wanda102's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    thank you both!  i just wish there was a way to do it within the bounds of etiquette.  But i think we've progressed well beyond the days when a host could just leave a pineapple on the bed to subtly hint that a guest had outstayed their welcome. sigh.  thank you again!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    There is no way to do it "within the bounds of etiquette" because SHE has already stepped out of bounds.  Be gentle but firm in your demand that she leave and give her a time limit (it doesn't take more than 3 days to pack).  If she doesn't pack up and leave right away, give her a suitable consequence of refusing, like calling the police and having her removed.   Then, of course, you must do that if she continues to linger and take advantage of you and Donna.

    Again, this is not mean, it's a resonable response to bad behavior.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ambergirl. Show ambergirl's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    Not sure what the legal laws are in CA, but i know in MA, she is considered a tenant if she is living there and you have to give her 30 days notice.  All you have to do is give her a written 30 day notice, make sure she signs it and keep a copy.  If she doesn't leave after 30 days, you can take her to court and evict her.  I hope it doesn't come to that and she takes the hint when you give her the notice.  Let us know how you make out.  My favorite saying is "no good deed goes unpunished"

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    What constitutes living there?  Staying over for the night?  Two nights?  It sounds to me like she's a friend crashing there with no lease and no legal right whatsoever to stay.  But, I'm no lawyer so I really shouldn't be commenting at all, I guess.  Well, c'est la vie, here it is, fwiw. :)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ambergirl. Show ambergirl's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    If she has all her possessions there, then she is considered a legal tenant.  Not right i know, but that is what the law is.  Doesn't even matter if she isn't paying rent, she is living there.  I found this out the hard way, so trust me it's true.  When I had to call the police, I was informed of this unbelievable fact, that i had to evict her since her belonging were in my home, she is considered a tenant, not an overnight guest. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from toytrumpet. Show toytrumpet's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    Hopefully, that law wouldn't apply, she is just a friend visiting - or at least that would be my story.  A friend who has certainly overstayed her welcome, and is a threat to others living in the condo complex - example being the fire alarm going off the other night because of her negligence.  Also, people don't want her "entertaining" on the property.  Hard hearted Hannah, that's me when it comes to a situation like this.

    P.S.  You and I posted at the same time, Amber, so just read your last post.  I doubt she has moved in any of her possessions other than the clothes she had brought with her to Boston - right?  That's a visit, I would think.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ambergirl. Show ambergirl's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    I certainly hope so TT and CA might be different.  This woman was a relative of mine who I was helping out.  I didn't know she had so many issues until she was there.  Another one, no job and then just started getting too comfortable.  She only came with her clothes, but because she had a room (my daughters old room) the police told me she was living there because she did not have another residence, so I couldn't say she was visiting.  I was given the advice of the written 30 day notice by them.  It was a nightmare and I did that the next day.  She moved out in a couple of days, so I got lucky.  May not apply in this case, but want to make her aware.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from toytrumpet. Show toytrumpet's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    I bow to your experience, since I have never been in such a position.  Perhaps even just telling her she has to make other living arrangements immediately before others in the condo complex file a complaint, might motivate her to find someplace else.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ambergirl. Show ambergirl's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    I agree, they have to just tell her she has such and such a time to move.  If she doesn't in that amount of time, then they will have to take legal action.  People like her and my relative have no qualms about mooching.  I feel so badly for Wanda, but they have to put their big girl pants on and get tough.  This woman will not go away unless told to.  Always value your advice TT, so I bow to you too : )
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from toytrumpet. Show toytrumpet's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    You know we all come so close to experiences like this - I think of how a few months ago I almost - almost - almost - told someone I'm very fond of that she could come stay with me until the next job came along.  Some little thing in the back of mind that I couldn't identify kept saying, "wait and see what happens.  See what other options she has."  Now as the months go by and I see her in her other option, making no real effort at job finding, I am so glad I listened to that little voice - or gut reaction - whatever it was.  Our friendship is still intact, but it wouldn't have been if she were living here.  The older I get the more I have learned to listen to your gut, don't jump into an emotional decision.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ambergirl. Show ambergirl's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    Amen to that TT!!  When I lost my job in 2008 and was out of work for 8 months, I found out who was really there for me during that stressful time. I almost lost my home.   The people I thought would lend a hand (and who I had lent a hand to many times) were nowhere to be found.  But on the other hand, ones I would not expect to help, did.  Changed my entire perspective on how I look at things and I would never take anyone in my home again.  I go by my gut and it never fails me.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Elekktra. Show Elekktra's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    Amy has substance abuse problems. Don't get further sucked into the rathole she created for herself. She'll continue wreaking havoc.
    Contact her family; let them "rescue" her. Give her bus-fare home if that's what it takes. Then change the locks. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wanda102. Show Wanda102's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    She doesn't have her belongings there, as far as i know. I will have to ask my roommate.  The frustrating thing is that we leased this place a few months ago while i was visiting, and i haven't even moved in at all, and I can't be there to back up Donna when she tells Amy she's got to go. =/ She's essentially taking my rightful space in the apartment in my absence.  I don't doubt for a second that she will leave before i come--that much was made clear to her when she first came to stay.  Bottom line is that I am on the lease, not her. So she needs to skedaddle. I just think Donna wishes it was next week instead of four weeks from now. Her and I are going to have a nice long talk tonight about what we're gonig to do, and I plan to tell her everything you all said to help.  We both really appreciate it, honestly!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    Drug problem?  Yikes, I missed that.  Even MORE reason to throw her out.  HER choices have BAD consequences.  You're not mean by acknowledging that fact by getting her out of there.

    tt, I bet this poster will listen to that little voice next time.  There's usually a first time, though, unfortunately. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ambergirl. Show ambergirl's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    Good luck Wanda and don't feel bad if you want her out before the 4 weeks.  Everyone has a right to be comfortable where they live and she is obviously making it uncomfortable.  She is not paying rent and this was suppose to be temporary anyway.  I would strongly advice you to ask her to leave now.  Her behavior is unacceptable so far.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    Indeed, don't wait.  It will only lead to more trouble.  I'd give her 3 days.  Her choices, her ramifications to deal with.  Not your responsibility.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pingo. Show pingo's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    Wanda,
    I absolutely agree with the other posters. Have her to move out NOW, the sooner the better. Her twin sister should be able to accommodate her. If there is no extra room, they can share one. I am sure they have done that while growing up. You and Donna do NOT have to take care of her.

    My son had such a bad experience in his first school year in CA. We helped him set up his apartment, furnished it with furniture, kitchen stuff etc. 
    After staying there for 6 months, a friend of his older brother lost his job in Boston and was at his door one night. He wanted "change of place" and try to find a job in CA. Could he stay for a few weeks until he got settled? My son is good natured and let him sleep on the couch for a "few nights". However few nights turned into weeks turned into months. Our son had decided not to have a TV to distract him, but one day this guy showed up with a TV. Another day he had a mattress delivered. Few nights became months - and while our son tried to study - this fellow played video games or slept all day. Of course the guy was not paying a penny in rent. He had no job. He was raiding the fridge, while our son was at school. He had a real bargain going. Collecting in MA, being a free loader in CA. It became a real nightmare. Of course we were furious, but we were thousands of miles away. This guy was such a leach. And there was nothing, we or or our son could do about it according to LA laws.
    6 months later, when our son's lease was up, an apartment became available, in the complex, where one of his school mates was staying. He decided to move and signed the lease w/o telling his "guest". Of course he became very upset, and just took off to San Francisco (leaving all his belongings behind, then later wanted them - but that is another long story), where he knew "someone".
    Wanda, please learn this lesson. If friends wants to get their foot inside your door - no matter how close friends they are, no matter how desperate they are, set a date for them to move OUT - and have them sign it. Give them a copy. That is the only way this will work, and maybe not even so.
    In hindsight - my son should have known better. While coming at our home to visit, while the boys were growing up - he would always "crash" (as he would call it) in one of our guest rooms sleeping until noon, even though he was living just down the street. He just did not want to bother to go home late at night. I was furious and my older son and I had several arguments over this.
    Sorry for this long post, but it really stroke a very sensitive nerve in me. Hope everything works out for you Wanda. Please let us know, how it is going.
    Best of luck - Pingo

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    Even if she does not have any other place to go that you know of there are always shelters.  It's what they are for.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pingo. Show pingo's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    Drug problems? I missed that too. Why is she still your friend? Please don't get involved with her at all. Maybe that is why her twin sister do not want to deal with her. Imagine if the cops find drugs in your apartment? Please just think about that for a second.
    Yes, indeed get that long talk w/ Donna - it is way overdue.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wanda102. Show Wanda102's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    Update:

    Amy moved out last night.  We helped her find a nice place with a man and his young son, so she can basically force herself into behaving better.  A series of circumstanes allowed Donna to basically tell Amy that our building was telling us no one else could be living there except for Donna and myself, which they wouldn't have hesitated to do regardless.  As such, Amy took off, we're all still friends, and no harm, no foul.  Donna and I both wanted to thank everyone for their spot on advice--we were getting pretty overwhelmed with our predicament there for a while, and you all really got us through it--and we know where to come if we ever need some helpful info for the future.


    Thanks again from Boston and LA!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ambergirl. Show ambergirl's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    I am assuming though she does not have a drug problem like everyone thought?  Just wondering since she will be living with a child.  Does she know this man very well??  She really needs to get her own place....  but glad it worked out for you and your roommate!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Posters! I need advice!

    That's great it all worked out!  YAY!  Stop by any time. :)

    ~kar
     
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