Which would you prefer???????

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RogerTaylor. Show RogerTaylor's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    cb wrote: "In fact, to play the role of devil's advocate myself, I would venture to argue that Kar is the only one that answered the question using both definitions of "need"."

    Then how did you reach your decision cb?


    "You can put me in the "wanted" camp.
    You and Kar need to agree on a definition of the terms "need" and "want" to further this discussion. Right now you are just using the words without really understanding what each one of you means by them."

    I'm missing the "po TAY toe" - "po TA to" bit here, simple question....When you get a wedding invite and your asked BEEF or FISH do you say both or do you just pick one (1)?

    cb I believe that you read the question and answered it based on it's face value - did I somehow trick you? or push you in a certain direction?

    We can let it go.....we have a minority of 1 and that's OK.....nobody is right or wrong here...Smile

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from cb156. Show cb156's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    RT:  I agree, there is no right or wrong.
    Clearly the answers being given on this thread are colored by how one interprets "need".  If you look at my first post, I based my opinion on the understanding of "need" that I have, which is similar to the one you have given. That is how I made my decision.
    I believe the point that both Kar and I were making about the discussion being moot IF everyone understood "need" in the way you proposed is that there would not have been any discussion.  I think the entire thread would have consisted of
    "Wanted"
    "Definitely wanted"
    "I'd rather be wanted"

    The only real discussion that's occurred here is all due to Kar providing a different viewpoint on what "need" means, and us discussing what that word means in this context.  Given your (and my) definition of need, she has made it clear she would prefer "wanted" over "needed".  Given, however, her personal understanding of "need" in the context of a relationship, "wanted" and "needed" are not mutually exclusive and she prefers to have both in her relationship.  It's an honest and valid answer.

    Let's see if this can start a slightly different dialog:

    Kar:  given your more expansive and "softer" definition of "needed", IF you had to choose "wanted" or "needed", what would you choose and why?  Assume that these are not mutually exclusive concepts, but that you must choose one that is more important than the other. In other words, would you rather be more wanted than needed, or vice-versa? Do you think your answer would change over the course of a relationship?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    cb, I'm not willing to contribute to the original discussion anymore, but I will answer your question (given I've answered RT's 50 ways from Sunday).  I'd choose the scale to be slightly heavier on the needed side (GIVEN your qualification of how I described the softer, healthier side of need).  Why?  Because I'm a born nurturer, and I enjoy doing for people.  When my friends had remodeled, and it was going to be impossible to keep their Christmas entertaining plans because everything was a mess, I drove up an hour away, donned gloves, and washed all their windows.  Because I wanted to.  I get a great amount of satisfaction from cooking all my husband's food so he achieves his weight goals and lives as pain-free as possible given his condition.  But, I sure do enjoy being wanted, too.  And, given MY definitions, they are inextricable, anyway - I mean who wouldn't WANT me around given how much I adore serving the needs of those I love?  Not to mention I'm wantable for many other reasons, if I might be so bold as to say so.  So, I'm needed and wanted, and I like it that way.  Heavier on the wanted side would make me feel useless.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from plasko. Show plasko's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    Interesting. You sound like you are mentally desperate to be a parent!
    I think that is why people have a second child when their first one becomes a toddler with a bit more independence, they remember with fondness what it was to have a newborn baby need them, and miss it so much they decide to go for baby number 2. 
    A lot of people want to be needed. Parents especially, even of older children. Who would want to admit that they are superfluous to their adult children's lives? In one sense its a testimony to parenting prowess if the kids are independent. But then they don't need you anymore. Still better than the other side and creation of mommy's boys, and "helicopter parenting". 
    A happy medium is good (I assume thats why some grandmas never give over their famous recipes, otherwise they would not be needed there either if you can make it yourself). 


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    Interesting, but I couldn't be less desperate to be a parent.  I'd like to sneak off and get a tubal ligation, actually, but couldn't be dishonest and DH is the one desperately still hoping for kids.  Surprise you?  

    I don't "mother" DH, either, unless by the simple act of cooking 90% of what he eats counts.  I do, however, call myself Mommy re the dog.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    In Response to Which would you prefer???????:
    [QUOTE]....to be "wanted" or to be "needed" in a relationship?
    Posted by RogerTaylor[/QUOTE]

    I've only read the first post.

    I'd rather be needed.  Personally, I would rather be necessary to someone's happiness than to be wanted or desired.  To me, a 'want' or "desire" is a fleeting thing. A need is more enduring.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    In Response to Re: Which would you prefer???????:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Which would you prefer??????? : Agreed! I think - IMHO - those who prefer to be needed " may " have greater emotional needs versus those that prefer to be wanted, as wanted somehow/someway validates a reciprocated love........
    Posted by RogerTaylor[/QUOTE]

    Totally disagree. I have been described as a total cold beyatch on more than one occasion.  I need my alone time.  DH travels a ton for work and I love it.  I lived alone for over 5 years, owned my own place and was totally self sufficient and self supporting. I haven't been home to see family in over a year [although I talk to them regularly on the phone].  I could happily live in the hinterlands. 

    I think you are mixing up 'needed' as 'needs to do stuff for me' and wanted as in "I choose you" or "I desire you". In my definition of needed, they are choosing a path of happiness that includes you, therefore you are needed.  You are a necessary component to that equation of happiness. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RogerTaylor. Show RogerTaylor's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    In Response to Re: Which would you prefer???????:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Which would you prefer??????? : Totally disagree. I have been described as a total cold beyatch on more than one occasion.  I need my alone time.  DH travels a ton for work and I love it.  I lived alone for over 5 years, owned my own place and was totally self sufficient and self supporting. I haven't been home to see family in over a year [although I talk to them regularly on the phone].  I could happily live in the hinterlands.  I think you are mixing up 'needed' as 'needs to do stuff for me' and wanted as in "I choose you" or "I desire you". In my definition of needed, they are choosing a path of happiness that includes you, therefore you are needed.  You are a necessary component to that equation of happiness. 
    Posted by ALF72[/QUOTE]





    Ahhhhhhh! another person that understood the question! Love your response Alf!

    You took the time to read the question, interpret the meaning of the words in the question and answered the question like others here!

    Thank you!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from RogerTaylor. Show RogerTaylor's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    In Response to Re: Which would you prefer???????:
    [QUOTE]The thread is interesting, I agree, and I wish RT could read it and glean what he is looking for from it the way it is.  I think what he's looking for is in there , already. I also agree that the original question is moot the way it's been put forth - that's why I asked if it were a trick question from the very start because it was a  psuedo -philosophical kickoff to a nonsensical discussion IF one defines "need" in extreme basic life terms as RT has.  The real philosophy of what he's getting at is already answered quite thoroughly imo, and it seems you agree, cb?
    Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]

    Kar, it's OK to admit when you don't understand the question. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    I understand the question.  Reread every one of my posts in this thread and you'll probably be able to discern that I not only understood the question, but I answered it a number of times based on different (stated) assumptions (as cb gathered quite readily).

    But, if after you've thoroughly reread each one of my posts, RT, it's perfectly OK to still not understand my part of the discussion, but it seems at least one person has (thanks, cb):
    Actually RT, I think Kar has answered the question.
    She has made it more than clear, at least to my reading of her responses, that given the sort of "basic existence" definition of "need" you put forth, that she would not be interested in that.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RogerTaylor. Show RogerTaylor's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    Kar, your "modus operandi" when you don't understand the question is to argue the meaning of the word or words in the question - the Clinton approach as it where - "it depends on what the definition of the word is - is"...Alf and the others did the basic thought process of:

    Reading the question
    Interpreting the Question
    and
    Answering the question....simple

    Kar, do you talk back to your TV when you disagree?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    The only argumentative person here is you.  If you don't like the answer or understand the answer, whatever, but I am not playing Clintonian games with you.  I assumed you meant one thing and answered it that way.  You clarified.  I changed my answer based on your clarification.  Simple as that.

    There are many definitions of need other than "food, shelter, and clothes."  We say, "I need you to take out the trash, please," all the time, but we don't mean we'll actually DIE if the trash isn't taken out.  Come on, RT, get a grip.  "Need" is a much more gray word than "is" for pete's sake.

    "Interpretting the question" is something we all do differently.  If others interpretted it the way you imagined it off the bat, good for them.  I interpreted another way, answered it that way, and then, after you clarified your definition, I changed my answer accordingly.  That's how conversations with reasonable people work.

    ETA:  If you can't handle the fact that there is greyness in the English language and communicate more clearly, don't blame ME.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    Actually, RT, I think you pulled the old switcheroo on Kar. You had a definition of need and want in your mind when you posed the question. Some people clearly shared that definition, but some did not. You later on defined what 'need' and 'want' mean.  Some people's answers fell into the response patterns that you expected b/c they simply happened to share your definition.  Kar had a different take on it, but it didn't jibe w/ your initial [then unexpressed] definitions. When you clarified your definitions, she clarified her response. I don't think you are being fair in now 'taking her to task' for rewording her response in reaction to your rewording -or at least fine tuning - of the question.   

    I was an English major and I currently parse words for a living. Most normal people don't approach language like I do. lol.  So my hitting on what you meant was just luck. I was actually drawing on a line from Jane Austen's Emma, when Emma realizes that Mr. Knightly is necessary to her happiness.  She's perfectly fine w/o him, but life is better w/ him. 

    ETA: English is one of the more difficult languages to learn b/c of the nuances of words and, particulaly, b/c our verbs have irregular conjugations. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RogerTaylor. Show RogerTaylor's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    In Response to Re: Which would you prefer???????:
    [QUOTE]Actually, RT, I think you pulled the old switcheroo on Kar. You had a definition of need and want in your mind when you posed the question. Some people clearly shared that definition, but some did not. You later on defined what 'need' and 'want' mean.  Some people's answers fell into the response patterns that you expected b/c they simply happened to share your definition.  Kar had a different take on it, but it didn't jibe w/ your initial [then unexpressed] definitions. When you clarified your definitions, she clarified her response. I don't think you are being fair in now 'taking her to task' for rewording her response in reaction to your rewording -or at least fine tuning - of the question.    I was an English major and I currently parse words for a living. Most normal people don't approach language like I do. lol.  So my hitting on what you meant was just luck. I was actually drawing on a line from Jane Austen's Emma, when Emma realizes that Mr. Knightly is necessary to her happiness.  She's perfectly fine w/o him, but life is better w/ him. 
    Posted by ALF72[/QUOTE]

    No, no, no Alf you got it right. Read it, interpreted it answered it - done.

    Kar later asked about how need and wanted are being defined in the question - I responded in an effort to help her understand the question.

    Clintonisms aside, this was an innocuous question - there was no "trick" to answering it. You said you didn't read the entire thread when you posted your response - you simply offered a response, and for that Thank you!

    There have been other threads where Kar challenges the meaning of a word or words.  There is no need to do so, each post, word or words are left to the reader to interpret any way they want.  A logical answer would be - "I prefer to be needed because I define need or needy as....." versus "Is this a trick question?"

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    I disagree.  Kar is not an idiot.

    Certain people who post jump all over her b/c she is a housewife, and therefore her responses are castigated as being 'worthless' or "50s housewife-ish".  I don't blame her for asking what you meant by the question. 

    If "words are left to hte reader to interpret any way they want" and Kar has stated that she was not interpeting the words as you later defined them, then what is the issue?  You are the one changing the meaning of her initial responses by changing the definitions of the words. Then when she changes her tune in response to your changed definition, you tell her that she didn't understand the question and is backpedaling.  No dice. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RogerTaylor. Show RogerTaylor's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    No, no, no - I "NEVER" called Kar an idiot!


    "You are the one changing the meaning of her initial responses by changing the definitions of the words."

    Her first response was - "Is this a trick question?"

    Unlike you, she chose to discuss the meaning of the words needed and wanted, I tried to clarify.

    I do not care what Kar's socio economic demographic consists of - if you read another post here by me I think I even complimented her!

    I guess the big difference between you me and Kar is that, you and I can take a post answer it and not mince words - and YOU define yourself as someone who -
    "I was an English major and I currently parse words for a living."

    As someone who "parses words for a living" you didn't challenge the meaning of needed or wanted - you just took a logical approach to answering the question.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    Challenging the meaning up front of words that can have LEGITIMATELY different meanings to different people, not in a Clintonesque way (is is just is), is what leads to more careful consideration of the questions as you mean them.  ALF just happened to choose the meaning of the word need that you intended, but didn't stipulate in the OP, like she said, by accident.  If I'd done the same we wouldn't be having this subdiscussion nor would I be accused of playing games.  Which I don't.  And, by the way, it seems you're the only one seeing this game I'm supposedly playing.  

    ETA:  I don't mince words in the slightest.  I want to know that we're all on the same page before I answer a question that includes words that often mean different things to different people.  What you call "misunderstanding the question," I call recognizing it immediately as having multiple possible interpretations and, therefore, different answers.  Which you then find argumentative.  Argh.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RogerTaylor. Show RogerTaylor's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    Kar wrote: "I don't mince words in the slightest. I want to know that we're all on the same page before I answer a question that includes words that often mean different things to different people."

    Again, chicken or fish? There is no RIGHT answer! Dive in, get wet, swim and enjoy!

    Don't stop to ask if the water is wet!

    If we were all on "the same page" we would all have the same answer - and Alf would be wrong!

    I don't define the word or word's because I don't want to lead the witness.

    Here's your challenge Kar - read the question and offer the answer as YOU interpret it - don't question any words!

    Go back to your post regarding FEAR....you offered an answer without questioning any of the words - and you were spot on!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    That's what I did.  I jumped in an answered it.  Then, parts of my answer were challenged, and the answers to those challenges DEPENDED on your defintion of the key words in the OP.  Drop it, would you?

    I'm sure my answer in the fear post will be challenged, and I MIGHT have to ask what one means by fear.  So, be prepared.  It's not a Clintonian game, it's how I DISCUSS things.

    ETA:  You are actually the one not answering my questions straightforwardly.  I asked if someone ever needs to lose weight.  I asked if someone ever needs to be healthier.  You didn't answer.  Instead, you chose to accuse me of playing semantical games.  I think the answers to those questions were relevant to the discussion.  If you disagree, that's fine, but don't call my discussion style a defensive, non-sensical (likening me to Clinton saying "is" has different meanings), obtuse game.

    ETA #2:  Is is is and water is wet.  However, if you poll 100 people on the street about what is meant by "need," you'll get 100 different answers.  If you can't see that and account for such things in a discussion, I'm not the one with the communication downfall that befell this thread.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RogerTaylor. Show RogerTaylor's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    ETA: You are actually the one not answering my questions straightforwardly.

    Kar I didn't answer any questions until you pressed me to define "needed" and "wanted" and now I realize I shouldn't have!  I didn't want to lead the witness.
    You know what "needed" and "wanted" mean - to you.  I'm just trying to solicit your opinion/thought and learn from it. 

    It's the response that makes me think - Alf's was awesome! She simply expressed an opinion that was different than mine.

    Your post regarding FEAR could be challenged - that doesn't make you or the person challenging your post any righter or wronger than you or I.  There are NO thought police here! Everyone gets to say what they want (provided it stays within the BDC guidelines) there is no RIGHT or WRONG......

    "However, if you poll 100 people on the street about what is meant by "need," you'll get 100 different answers" AND THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR!!!!!

    I want to learn something from those 100 people that define a word or word's the way they do! Think about how boring life would be if we all interpreted the meaning of a word the same way??? CB156 said it "...we all interpret word's in different ways" - and that - IMHO - is a good thing!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    The fact is, on the same page isn't the same as having the same opinion.  Nor is defining a word in the question leading anyone to have a certain opinion.

    If need were so blatently obvious in meaning, no one would ever have the retort in a money argument of, "But, I needed it."  Because everyone would have the "same page" idea of a need:  enough food to live, enough water to live, enough shelther and clothes to survive the elements.  And, nothing else, therefore, would fall into the, "But, I needed it" bucket.

    So, to ask, "What do you mean by 'need'" is not only legitimate and non-leading, it's necessary for the conversation to go in a sensical direction at all.

    By the strict answer above, EVERYTHING on earth than that essential bite of food, sip of water, clothing, and shelter is a WANT which rendered the discussion, as cb and I recognzied, totally moot.

    If you disagree we'll just have to leave it at that, disagreeing, but hopefully not disagreeable.  I really am late for an appointment and NEED to get out the door, or is it WANT?  I don't know, I'll live if I'm late, but I won't be happy.  And, is happiness a NEED or a WANT?  

    Later, my friend,
    ~kar
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from cb156. Show cb156's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    I think the intersting part of Alf's response--saying "needed"--was that Alf included a working definition of "needed" as it applied to her response--and note that Alf did that only after reading some additional postings here.
    Had Alf not done that, what would we have assumed?
    We all read the question and interpreted it.  It's become clear in this thread that in order to make certain a response is understood, a poster must supply some kind of definition they worked with for these terms.

    KAR--I found your response to my question interesting.  I would say "wanted" for myself.  While I get tremendous satisfaction out of being there and helping others, making their tasks and days easier when I can, I want that to be something I freely give, and that someone sees as a gift.  I do not want to be "needed" in that sense, because to me it implies the behavior on my part is expected, and likely to be taken for granted.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    cb, I found your take on my response to you intriguing.  In fact, I do see what I do for people I love as a gift, freely given, and in my home those things are received and appreciated as gifts.  So, given that, I'd be willing to say I'd prefer to be 100% wanted, as well.  (But, that's qualified as you and I have qualified the words, an essential part of the discussion.)

    RT, one more try.  "Needed or wanted?  Discuss," just doesn't work if the words carry different connotations for different people...which they do.  Exclusive use of denotative definitions of words is not how the English language works; it's not a defensive communication ploy to clarify or stipulate the connotation of a word especially in a debate context.  Nor is it a matter of misunderstanding the question.  It's a matter of not knowing what connotation of the word is that's under discussion.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RogerTaylor. Show RogerTaylor's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    RT, one more try. "Needed or wanted? Discuss," just doesn't work if the words carry different connotations for different people...

    Kar, HONEY, I love you....stop taking the bait


    Look at my FEAR post and YOUR response! It was a straightforward thoughtful opinion.  I did'nt "argue" with your response from a Jewish, Agnostic, Atheist perspective I just respected and acknowledged your individual opinion/thought and word choice.

    Every word has multiple meanings, some words mean different things in different countries and cultures (call a German woman a "cow" -see how she reacts) blah, blah, blah......I'm not here to persecute or prosecute anyone's opinion.

    If I want to offer a stipulative definition of a word I will say so in my post and offer that stipulative definition.  If I don't do that then interpret the word or word's any way you want!  Look at all my future post's like you did the FEAR post and dive in with your response!

    What's the worst that could happen? we agree to disagree? ouch....


    Wink
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from RogerTaylor. Show RogerTaylor's posts

    Re: Which would you prefer???????

    In Response to Re: Which would you prefer???????:
    [QUOTE]I think the intersting part of Alf's response--saying "needed"--was that Alf included a working definition of "needed" as it applied to her response--and note that Alf did that only after reading some additional postings here. Had Alf not done that, what would we have assumed? We all read the question and interpreted it.  It's become clear in this thread that in order to make certain a response is understood, a poster must supply some kind of definition they worked with for these terms. KAR--I found your response to my question interesting.  I would say "wanted" for myself.  While I get tremendous satisfaction out of being there and helping others, making their tasks and days easier when I can, I want that to be something I freely give, and that someone sees as a gift.  I do not want to be "needed" in that sense, because to me it implies the behavior on my part is expected , and likely to be taken for granted.
    Posted by cb156[/QUOTE]

    Yes cb, but as the poster I don't have to define the words. Based on an individuals definition of the words I used.  The word or word's will illicit a "unique" response. Each response should differ from another based on each persons interpretation of the word's used.

    There are NO CONSEQUENCES for interpreting a word or words here - I promise!

    I don't agree with Alf - BUT THAT IS IRRELEVANT! I love her defense of her position! Very intelligent and direct and totally opposed to the way I prefer to be "wanted!" 
     

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