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Is this the dumbest generation?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ptrusten. Show ptrusten's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    I've often thought about the differences in the generations, and, if I look at the changes carefully, I am actually no different in my criticism of the current youngest generation than my parents were of mine, and perhaps their parents of theirs, etc.� Technology may add to the current problems, but, overall, I think that each generation of Americans is less disciplined�than the one preceding.� John F. Kennedy talked about his generation being "tempered by war and disciplined by a hard and bitter peace," and the Baby Boomers (of which I am one) were tempered and disciplined by Kennedy's generation. It is as if we were their apprentices in life.� But, what kind of apprentices have we�been producing?�

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    Wow, how simplistic to blame parents and teachers. Look a little larger into the corporate world that is hell bent on spontaneous gratification. Once again it is not the institutions that nurture youth, but more the institutions that divide. How minute of a perspective.

    This is the thanks we get for teaching for thirty some years with heart and care.

    Good luck in your world my friend.

    A wider perspective.

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from peacenik. Show peacenik's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    Kalliona said:
    "I've really had it with attacks on my age group.� They have been arecurring theme in coverage of the Democratic primary, with youngervoters charaterized as supporting Obama for frivolous reasons and nomention of the possiblity that Obama's policies concretely are morebeneficial for young people than Clinton's.� This particular bit ofmedia is not overtly political, but the ideas are similar.�Discrimination and insults directed at older adults are not consideredacceptable.� Why is it acceptable to attack younger adults based ontheir age?"

    Perhaps precisely because people under 30 tend to be more liberal than people over 30, and the charlatan who wrote this book is a conservative who figures if he can portray young people as stupid, then older people won't take them as seriously. For evidence of how much Bauerlein himself actually values intellectual rigor (as if the logical shoddiness of his book weren't enough evidence), check out this excerpt from a recent article of his:

    "But if we look at tenured professors in the humanities and in manyother disciplines, it seems to me that much of the work they do isentirely self-generated. The conference papers that have to be written,the scholarly articles they want to complete, the book projects thathang over them . . . these are not required. They are elective. Yes,they can enhance a career, extend a CV, or even contribute to thehistorical record?sometimes. But the fact is that the degree to whichthe vast majority of conference papers and articles in the humanitieseffectively change the working conditions of professors doesn?t comeclose to justifying the number of hours they spend on the projects. . . Is it really worthsweating all those months getting that manuscript in order?which uponpublication will sell only a few hundred copies?just to boost yourannual raise a few hundred dollars?"

    In other words, when he doesn't have a book to peddle, his attitude is that intellectual inquiry is only worthwhile if it pays. I guess maybe he's passed that attitude along to his own students and is now blaming them for having learned it.

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from eddie79. Show eddie79's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    Although�I don't disagree that this is very true of the majority, there are a few "throwbacks" holding out.� Here is a bit about me:I am 29 and college educated.� I have been married 6 years to my high-school sweetheart.� We have two small children.� We own our own home and 3 income properties.� We pay the rent on my parents apartment (and are happy to do so).� I spend 3 - 4 hours a day reading (not including to�my children).� I cook dinner at home all but 2 nights a month.�We do not have profiles on Myspace or anything like it.� We go to church on Sundays and are staunch�Republicans.� We do not watch sit-coms or reality tv (literally have never seen Survivor or American Idol).� My children are allowed to watch 2 hours a day on PBS.� We do not have I-pods or plasma tv's (since we don't watch tv much).� We also do not have any video games.� We paid cash for our last two cars (actually saved for something).� We own our own business.� I'm not trying to brag, I just want you to know that we are out here...and I would bet money that there are many others like us.� Don't generalize, Professor Bauerlein, it shows your age.

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from spiers. Show spiers's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    While I do feel that many of the major arguments and counter-arguments have been made, at the same time I feel that I should be saying something. I am a fifteen year old high school student in Massachusetts, and I do take offense to what Bauerlein has written. I'm not mad in the sense that I believe that our generation isn't stupid - trust me, I've seen plenty - but I'm frustrated in his arguments and how he plans to back them up in his book. As part of the demographic he is aiming to claim as 'ignorant,' it's my duty to give a perspective that hasn't been offered very much (the general age here seems to be either well over thirty or people in their twenties).

    1. "They make excellent "Jaywalking'' targets"
    In this section he asserts that "It isn't enough to say that these young people are uninterested in world realities. They are actively cut off from them. ... They are encased in more immediate realities that shut out conditions beyond -- friends, work, clothes, cars, pop music, sitcoms, Facebook." Interesting. How does the fact that we are uninterested in world realities relate to the fact that we are some of the most opinionated people in our world today? Amnesty International happens to have an entire segment based entirely on youth participation. Or how about the J8 Summit? A simulation of the G8 Summit, which I'm hoping the majority of people here are aware of, for youth in high school as well. This year, to be able to be accepted into the J8 Summit (only one high school group of four kids are invited), one must come up with solutions to the global problems of global warming/climate change, poverty/development, and child survival/infectious diseases/AIDS. Somehow I think that this is more than many adults can claim that they think about. As for Facebook, cars, clothing, and the like: Facebook is our generation's way of keeping in touch, every generation has some sort of connection like that. Cars, well, nothing new there, that has been an obsession for many, many, many years. We need clothes, and people have been fashion conscious for ages, look at ancient Greek women, for example. Seriously, weak arguments, Bauerlein, weak arguments.

    2. "They don't read books -- and don't want to, either"
    This is beyond generalization. This is taking the idea that because some kids don't read and that we have so much else offered (internet, television) that we don't read. Well, ever heard of Harry Potter? The Series of Unfortunate Events? Eragon? Yes, these may not be Tolstoy's War and Peace or whatever other book you'd like to throw at us, but what kind of books did you read when you were our age? Not to mention that even what I've said is quite stereotypical. People my age are reading Pride & Prejudice, Atonement, and many other critically acclaimed books because of the movies. And this isn't bad. Yes, we watched the movies, but how does that negate the fact that we read the books, other than the fact that the movie might be worse than the actual writing? So really, I'd like to see you back this one up.

    3. "They can't spell"
    This is ridiculous. We're a fast-paced generation, hence we must express ourselves quickly. IM does not translate into our English essays describing how night and day play a crucial role in expressing love in Romeo and Juliet or in a history essay on how the propaganda in the 1936 Berlin Olympics gained Germany favor but did not increase any support of Hitler's racial views. We use 'chat speak' in IM because it's fast and it's easy. We don't have time to capitalize and, one must admit, our 'IM codes' are quite clever. As for spellcheck, that's funny, because somehow we manage to do just fine in in-class essays when we're writing on, God forbid, REAL paper with REAL pencils.

    4. "They get ridiculed for original thought, good writing"
    And you would know this ... how? This is completely inaccurate. Yes, some social circles or cliques may seem to act like this, but in truth, that's a minority. Doing well in school is not considered 'stupid' - why do you think that the Phi Beta Kappa award is so prestigious, or why the valedictorian makes the graduation speech? If these were 'bad' no one would win them as no one would try. For the most part, doing well is much cooler than failing out a school and original thought is highly accepted, especially in the liberal arts schools that are doing so immensely well today.

    5. "Grand Theft Auto IV, etc."
    I don't play video games, I have never owned one, never will. However, I must say, that "the sales of GTA dwarf movie premieres, CD sales, or, Bauerlein notes, book sales" is easily explained - books and movies don't cost as much as video games. I'm fifteen, and even I saw that gaping hole immediately.

    6. "They don't store the information"
    So tell me everything you know about the Cherokee perspective on the American Revolution. As for the whole 'not storing and passing it along instead', that's completely incorrect. We use the internet to learn, to help us, which is precisely the same as having a teacher tell us information and have us write it down. Except that one of them is faster. Guess which?

    7. "Because their teachers don't tell them so"
    Oh goodness. Last time I checked it was quite difficult to get straight A's in honors and AP classes. If teachers really were reverting more to 'self-esteem grading' then we would have so many more students in these classes. doing well. And, as you stated before, there are many in remedial classes instead. Teachers vary so much that it is impossible to make one statement encompassing them all. Impossible, and completely inaccurate.

    8. "Because they're young"
    So let me get this straight - you just hopped out from your mother's womb at the ripe old age of thirty? Everyone was young. And if you're pointing out how stupid you remember being, then you've just disproved your entire book. Not to mention the fact that the prefrontal cortex is being 'remodeled', so to speak, during adolescent years. As in it has not fully matured. May I point out that the prefrontal cortex is responsible for making decisions and decision making? Coincidence, I think not. So really, for every young generation, being a little bit stupid for what we do is built in. Natural selection, I'd say.

    This is just a fifteen year old's point of view. Obviously, because I'm apparently so dumb, you can just skip over what I say.

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mtrem225. Show mtrem225's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    Very well said. I agreed with everything you said.

    It's unfair to say that parents and teachers are "self-esteem grading." Students, at least people I know, are under enormous pressure to perform well in classes, so they can get into a good college, or get into a grad school program. Teachers and professors are becoming more and more demanding. Mr. Bauerlein seems to be making the same generalizations as that stereotypical cranky old man..

    "Aghhh, kids these days... Back in my day...."
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from gerricor. Show gerricor's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    HELLO!!!!� I am 59 and feel lost if I'm on my daily bus to and from work without a book.� Not only that, I KEEP all my books as prized possessions, hoping to be able to lend them to interested friends once I promote a book to them after I've actuallly read it!� If I were to go into this young generation's shortcomings, I would have to write a book myself! Suffice it to say that I've had to advise a few summer interns of this generation that speaking the work "ask" as "aks" will not get you a promotion in the business world any time soon - or ever.� I would also like to add that it's not only the lack of knowledge, spelling and grammar ability and general lack of any intellectual interests (even of current college students) that bother me, it's also the way they lack respect in the way they dress.� I've seen 20-somethings attending weddings in jeans.� It's very cool to dress casually in many situations, but really, there are events to which they may be invited where they�could muster�up some degree of respect to �take a few seconds away from the various apparati to which they are always connected to consider who invited them and what the event is to which they were invited.� Hey - buy a suit, hang it in your closet along with a clean shirt and tie, and try not to embarass your closest cousin at his wedding by wearing jeans!!!� Truly - a clueless generation.�

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mtrem225. Show mtrem225's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    "Truly - a clueless generation. "

    Case and point.

    I don't doubt you've seen people in this generation "attending weddings in jeans", etc, but you just can't generalize and say everyone my age does it. I'm sure there are plenty of trashy 59 year-olds who have done the same thing, just as there are 59 year-olds who can't spell or who don't read. I own a suit, I wear it for job interviews, weddings, funerals, and formal gatherings. I enjoy reading, I do it every night before bed.

    By classifying "20-somethings" in this way, you have offended me just as Mr. Bauerlein has.
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from gerricor. Show gerricor's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    Volunteerism is certainly a noble venture. HOWEVER, where is the concern over the political placement of the US in the world today?� Where is the outrage over the situation in Iraq????? Volunteerism is just another way for this egocentric generation to get more individual pats on the back. If ever there was a "ME" generation, this is it. The youth of the 60s sacrificed anything to do with themselves and ended up wasting their own college educations demonstrating in the streets to end the war in Viet Nam. Public opinion eventually finally became� so overwhelming because of this that the US had to get out of there.� If today's generation can't see it in front of them, hold a billion songs in their hands, then the rest of the world can just go to hell, in their minds.� WAKE UP!!!

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pwashburn. Show pwashburn's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    I'm 43 and while I enjoy razzing the young folks as much as the next person -- not to mention explaining important concepts like credit ratings and the Vietnam War to them -- I have to say that most of the young people I actually know are smart and interested in the world around them.

    Beyond that, today's young adults are the ones putting their derrieres on the line in Iraq and Afghanistan, and no matter how one feels about the policies of their superiors, the collective record of the kids at the front is one of bravery, loyalty, duty and toughness in the face of horrible circumstances. My generation was not so tested, and I hesitate to claim we would have been as good.
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from reniam. Show reniam's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    This is a very old and very lame argument repeated by middle aged generations since probably the beginning of time.

    I'm 38 and in the 80's we were all dopes too. My sister had a Life Magazine from the 50's with an article titled "Kid's Today" in which kids just want to hang out to the dismay of their parents. Remember "The Little Rascals?" I work at a University and have had several undergraduate students work for me. I am mostly impressed. They have diffrent ways to collect information and learn. Some, especially an English Professor, don't understand and do the small minded thing - criticize.�

    Everyone always wants to look back and think their generation was kinder, smarter, and better. It's just a fantasy. Some will rise to the top, most are mediocre, and some will be losers. Just as it always was.

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from gerricor. Show gerricor's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    That's the point. Just like today when thousands of young people are putting their lives on the line for an unjustified war, so were the same young people doing that in the 60s.� That's why there was so much protest!� Our contemporaries were DYING FOR NOTHING!�The exact same thing is happening now and these kids apparently don't seem to care!

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from gerricor. Show gerricor's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    That's not quite right. I'm 59 and never had kids. However, I have 8 nieces and nephews, a grand niece and a grand nephew. The oldest one of all of them is 23.� I ADORE them and I think they have a lot to offer. I have hope for them all, and do not think they are innately stupid just because they are younger.� However, I cannot help but compare them to myself when I was their various ages and think that they are quite lacking in certain social skills. I lived on my own from the age of 18, and lived alone in an apartment. My 21 year-old-niece is into her second year of work after college and still has to live with 3 other girls from college because she is afraid to be alone.� All these kids were coddled and told they were "special" and "brilliant" by their parents and can't do anything or make an independent decision without networking on their cellphones with a host of acquaintances.� It's great to have a friend to talk to, but this generation is under the impression that a phone connection is a life-long true friend.� I fear there is a rude awakening coming to them all when they finally have to realize they are really on their own in this world.� It's not that they are "stupid."� They just have too many illusions about what life is, and they think in terms of immediate feedback and immediate rewards.�This is not the real world.� Maybe 30 years from now when they are ruling the universe, the world will be different in the sense that there�will be �one collective mind connected by one universal cell phone that gives the same universal advice.� This is the "Big Brother" generation for sure. (And half of them wont know what that means.)

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from glene. Show glene's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?


    Look at your post, you poor thing. You've just proved the man's point.
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from glene. Show glene's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    "Amen to that.� You are what you eat.� The one's feeding all this crapand technology are the same idiots ridiculing these kids.� Hipocrits isall they are!"

    Yeah, "hipocrits" is what we is.

    This is sad. There must be at least 50 posts on this forum that, while protesting Bauerlein's thesis, prove all of his points!� And of course, the people who wrote them don't realize it, because they're too dumb.

    Game, set, match.

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from wordy1234. Show wordy1234's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    The argument stinks of the ideas every generation seems to have about their children being less motivated and less intelligent.� How can this be the dumbest generation when more people speak a foreign language than ever before?� Or have to understand more complex scientific ideas than any generation before?� And is today's youths' lack of interest in foreign affairs any different than previous generations?� -->-->Finally, 'under 30's' didn't start the -->-->Iraq-->--> war...-->-->�

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelsey42bw. Show kelsey42bw's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    I think the fact that utter stupidity like this article/book came from a previous generation just goes to show that dumbness is not unique to my age group. In addition to all of the excellent counter arguments that have already been made, I would also like to point out that my generation is decidedly less prejudiced than the previous ones, which I believe is a sign of our intelligence.
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mtrem225. Show mtrem225's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    This topic reminds me of a quote by the great Abraham Simpson:

    "Every generation sucks but ours!"
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bchan89. Show bchan89's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    hey dickweeds,������������������������ are you the same people at 31 as 21? 31as 41? 11 as 21? get over it time changes and people adapt. do i look at the next generation and scratch my head?� hell yeah!

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bchan89. Show bchan89's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    yo you stoned?
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from sunnsea. Show sunnsea's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    I teach a class of HS Jrs and Srs at in an older�suburb in Orange County ,California.�� In the class are a number of Asian-American students as well� Mexican-American and White Americans.� I'll give you one guess as to which group are the "A" students, who read the assignments, who does their work.� Yes, they all have cellphones, they do IMing occasionally but the Asian-American students get it and don't quit until they find the answer to any problem I give them.� It's amazing to see this every day.� I ask the other students why they don't or won't do their assignments and some answer flat out, "give me an F, I don't care."...all so that they won't have to do any work at all.�� My fear is that if the Asians ever become thoroughly Americanized in this way, you can kiss the good 'ol USA good-bye, they are our only hope left.�� It's a cultural thing.It's no accident why we have the political outcomes that we do and have had for the past 30-40 years.�� The students have been pandered to and are not challenged, their peer groups are anti-learning.�� But then what do you expect when we have a President who boasts of not reading himself, fakes a Texas accent and has a phoney estate called a "ranch".��But like he, the last thing they are is dumb.� Instead they game the system, a system that does not know how to block cellphone use and IMing (I don't allow it in my class, but that doesn't mean they don't try)...where parents are working 2 and 3 jobs and don't have time to work with them or too tired to take an interest.�� This is the world wrought by the Reagan Restoration and the Nixon "Southern Strategy" that allows non-Asian �American to celebrate their "dumbness and cluelessness"�� while they fall prey to every right-wing values- blowhard around.�� Yes, that means you ,blue-collar folks.� Time to get off your non-elitists butts and start learning about how the rest world is consigning you to the dust bin of history.�

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bchan89. Show bchan89's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    what do you work for?

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from who-cares-1940. Show who-cares-1940's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    There was one selection missing from the survey... "All of the above."

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from aerowhip. Show aerowhip's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    Having taught philosophy at numerous colleges and universities, the problem is clear:� No one checks to see whether students actually learn anything, hence it is possible -- and more than a bit likely -- that students will receive a degree while lacking basic proficiency in reading and writing.� Administrators are concerned only with retention, not education, and professors are forced into giving inflated grades which inflate students' views of their own abilities.� Persons are hired to "diversify" the faculty, some of whom barely rate as mediocre.� And that's just the start....� ��

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from execdir. Show execdir's posts

    Is this the dumbest generation?

    I'm appalled at some of the comments from the 20-somethings on here.� Anyone who questions why spelling and grammar are important in this day and age falls right into the author's argument that this is truly a stupid generation.� I am 40-something.� My forty-something friends have about 20 teenage children among them and they all live in affluent suburbs.� There are precisely 2 teenagers who are able to conduct an adult conversation.� The other 18 cannot string a sentence together and barely look up to greet an adult.� They are too busy drooling on themselves as they play�their "Grand Auto Theft" games to realize that their brains have turned to gel.� The parents are to blame.� The selfish ones who put themselves and their needs and creature comforts ahead of the education of their children are stuck with these cretin teenagers.� The two couples who read to their children and enrolled them in art and music classes and limited tv watching have two 13-year olds who are articulate and clever and witty and�can talk to adults in an adult manner.� The other 18 or so teenagers look and sound as if they might have trouble spelling their own names.� �