I get a kick out of the LL section! In most cases, you can here them saying "I'm 23 years old" as they type the letter.  So that being said, I came across a great article to share for the 20 something's out there considering the difficult and rewarding task of marriage...

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The number one predictor of divorce is the habitual avoidance of conflict.

What's sad is the reason couples avoid conflict is because they believe it (conflict) causes divorce.  It's like the cartoon where the couple explains to the marriage counselor, "We never talk anymore. We figured out that's when we do all our fighting."  In the beginning, we avoid conflict because we are in love and we believe that "staying in love" is about agreeing, about NOT fighting.

We're afraid that if we disagree – or fight – we'll run our marriage off into the ditch.
We believe that if we've found our soulmate, we'll agree about most things - and
certainly about the important things.

Later, we avoid conflict because when we try to deal with our differences
things get so out of hand and our fights so destructive and upsetting
that we simply shut down. After a few bad blow-ups we
become determined to avoid conflict at any cost. And, we start wondering
if we married the wrong person. It shouldn't be this hard.

Successful couples are those who know how to discuss their differences
in ways that actually strengthen their relationship and improve intimacy.
Successful couples know how to contain their disagreements – how to keep them from
spilling over and contaminating the rest of their relationship.

While it's true that we don't get married to handle conflict, if a couple doesn't
know how – or learn how – to fight or manage their disagreements successfully, they won't be able to
do all the other things they got married to do.

Put another way, it's hard to take her out to the ball game if you're not speaking.
Couples are often so determined to avoid disagreements that they shut down – quit speaking, quit loving.

Couples need to know what the research has found: that every happy, successful couple has
approximately ten areas of "incompatibility" or disagreement that they will never resolve.
Instead, the successful couples learn how to manage the disagreements and live life "around" them
– to love in spite of their areas of difference, and to develop understanding and empathy for
their partner's positions.

The divorce courts have it all wrong. "Irreconcilable differences" – like a bad knee or a chronic back – are
not a reason to divorce. Instead, they are part of every good marriage. Successful couples
learn to dance in spite of their differences. They gain comfort in knowing they know their partner,
know which issues they disagree on and must learn to manage.

They also understand that if they switch partners they'll just get ten new areas of disagreement, and sadly,
the most destructive will be about the children from their earlier relationships.

In addition to skills for handling disagreements, we also have to learn to welcome and embrace change.
When we marry we promise to stay together till death us do part – but, we don't promise to stay the same.
That would be deadly dull. We need skills and confidence to welcome, integrate, and negotiate change along the way.

The good news is that the skills or behaviors for handling disagreement and conflict,
for integrating change, and for expressing love, intimacy, sex, support,
and appreciation can all be learned. Couples can unlearn the behaviors that predict divorce –
that destroy love – and replace them with behaviors that keep love alive.

Diane Sollee
www.smartmarriages.com
Copyright, CMFCE.
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After reading the above.  Ask yourself, what's my fighting style? how do I resolve conflict? how do WE resolve conflict? how important is it to be "right"? do you ever use the phrase "I'm sorry, I was wrong" when resolving a conflict?

You can't tell a 20 something year old anything.  But, good effort.  Why do you think the divorce rate is 50%?  No one ever tells people this?  No, no one ever listens.  It has to be learned the hard way.

My wife and I were married in our 20's and this year celebrated our 30th anniversary. Reason why ours worked is because I agree with everything she says. ;-)

I'm with kar...sometimes ya gotta just learn the hard way.

Well-intentioned people have all sorts of advice about "fair fighting",  how to handle a disagreement, how to raise one's children...the bottom line is these are subjects that everyone has to figure out for themselves, given their personalities, character, and style.

We make mistakes.  We hurt each other sometimes.  Hopefully, we learn.  That's when we look back and remember what Mom/Dad/Aunt Jane/Uncle Joe/my teacher/my best childhood friend tried to tell me!  There's that expression:  "when I was a teenager, my parents were dumb.  Now that I'm 30, I see how  much smarter they've become!"

I love that expression, ML.  My parents DID get smarter the older I got!

In Response to Re: For the 20 somethings considering marriage....:


Thank you, I just get crazed at the LL's moaning about the affair, the guy, the girl....you can't fix stupid and when I was in my 20's I was stupid too.

In Response to Re: For the 20 somethings considering marriage....:



It's funny, as a parent I'm trying to steer my kid's in the "right" direction, as all parent's do.  My 13yo daughter posted something on Facebook that was....lets just say inappropriate.  I had her remove it and then tried to explain the "value" of a - reputation. I "thought" I educated her.  Nope! a few week's later she tweets something just as "dumb!"... I asked her to remind me about our conversation regarding her "reputation" her response..."I forgot!"

I think after taking away her cellphone, iPod Touch and laptop...she has plenty of time to think about what she did wrong and the "value" of her reputation - there will be a quiz!.....I'll check back with you all in 30 years!

Like I said, the School of Hard Knocks doesn't give honorary degrees.  You can't teach anyone anything despite your best efforts.  The most you can do is have a daughter that says, "Oh, yeah, Dad did warn me about that.  Dad?!  What do I do, now?"  If you end up with a daughter who comes to you and asks that, you've done well.  What you won't get is a daughter who doesn't have to make (and learn from) her own big mistakes.  If you process that now, you won't be so shocked when she make them despite your having warned her (and even punished her for exercising bad judgement) 'til you're blue in the face.  Not that you shouldn't try - one day it will dawn on her that you have a clue.  Just not for a long time and not before she makes painful mistakes - that's how she'll gain the clue that you were right all along.  It's only in hindsight that she'll get it, post whatever trauma she's crying to Daddy about.  Those are the teaching moments...the ONLY teaching moments.  Every preemptive lesson falls on "Whatever you say, Dad," or "Whatever it takes to get my cell phone back, Dad," deaf ears.  Sad, but true.  And, am I suggesting you let her fail without warning her?  Nope.  Just don't expect her to always process it the way you're hoping she will (or seems like she has) - she just knows how to sound like she buys it.

Kar wrote: "Like I said, the School of Hard Knocks doesn't give honorary degrees. You can't teach anyone anything despite your best efforts. The most you can do is have a daughter that says, "Oh, yeah, Dad did warn me about that. Dad?! What do I do, now?" If you end up with a daughter who comes to you and asks that, you've done well. What you won't get is a daughter who doesn't have to make (and learn from) her own big mistakes. If you process that now, you won't be so shocked when she make them despite your having warned her (and even punished her for exercising bad judgement) 'til you're blue in the face. Not that you shouldn't try - one day it will dawn on her that you have a clue."
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I knew going into parenting that my kid's would be no different than any other kid in most ways.  For example, I knew once my kid's reached there teen's I would go from being Dad to being an ATM and a taxi! I never deluded myself to thinking my kid's wouldn't have to learn from their mistakes. But that being said, I'm obligated as a parent to "try" and correct incorrect behavior. I never felt that throwing my arms up in the air and passing their behavior off as "kid's being kid's" would be an option. I've seen that approach to parenting, talk about watching a train coming off the tracks! Books, brain development - I'll share with you what our pediatrician said "children don't come with instruction manual's". There is no "manipulation" I have no problem taking away an iPod or cancelling her cell phone. To a 14yo that sends 30,000 to 50,000 text's a month and has a music library numbering in the 1,000's there is a "huge value" to her. Will I get the requested behavior? probably not, will she continue to make mistakes? absolutely! but at least I know that I have instilled the concept of consequences in her. Heck, she's only 14 I have 9+ years ahead of me of stupid mistakes and repeating myself when it comes to lectures and punishment. Will it work? I don't know, but I do know this, rolling over and playing dead is NOT an option. Being a parent IS NOT a part time job. I always believed parenting began with the decision to have children, going back to that LL post about the guy in his 30's "thinking" about having kid's I stand by my post - "When in doubt....don't!"

This is what the Mass court system put in place for those parents that don't take the time to parent....

MASSACHUSETTS CHINS LAWS

BACKGROUND

The Juvenile Court in Massachusetts has jurisdiction over: (1) delinquency matters, (2) care and protection cases, and (3) “children in need of services” (CHINS) cases. CHINS cases allow judges to intervene in non-criminal behaviors of children that the legislature has determined is cause for concern, and can be indicative of future involvement in delinquency or adult criminal matters. The non-criminal behaviors the legislature has allowed the Juvenile Court to intervene in are: (1) truancy, or excessive absence from school; (2) runaways; (3) stubborn children, or those who persistently do not follow the orders of their parents; and (4) school offenders, or those who disobey the rules at school. Depending on the behavior in question a parent, police officer, or a school official in charge of attendance can file a CHINS petition. After a Juvenile Court judge adjudicates a child a CHINS the statutory frame work enumerates the dispositions available to the judge. A disposition cannot last more then six months, but a six month extension can be ordered after review by the court, which may include an evidentiary hearing. The following research guide will direct practitioners and those interested in researching CHINS in Massachusetts to pertinent statutes and case law dealing with CHINS cases; and secondary materials that will provide background information, forms, and commentary on the system.

Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 119 § 21(2006).
This section defines CHINS as:

a child below the age of seventeen who persistently runs away from the home of his parents or legal guardian, or persistently refuses to obey the lawful and reasonable commands of his parents or legal guardian, thereby resulting in said parent's or guardian's inability to adequately care for and protect said child, or a child between the ages of six and sixteen who persistently and willfully fails to attend school or persistently violates the lawful and reasonable regulations of his school.

.....while it's great to "know" a certain part of the brain doesn't develop until your child reaches 20 something.  I don't want to wait! Too many parents make that mistake and that is why we have a juvenile court system

My SIL and BIL deliberately invoked CHINS - on themselves. They couldn't cope with the destructive behavior of a couple of their children, so they asked local police and DSS to intervene, effectively abrogating their parental responsibility without actually disowning their children.

In Response to Re: For the 20 somethings considering marriage....:

Well as long as we all take into account that these younger people have developing brains, and give them a pity card rather than rush in to judge them, thats what counts. 

In Response to Re: For the 20 somethings considering marriage....:

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Hello Kar...

I guess I read too much into this:
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"Take the information for what it's worth. I know other parents who "know" all the things you know about it and still make the mistake of thinking their kids get stuff they don't really get with tragic consequences. "My child understands xyz and will be more careful than other kids because I've been such a conscientious, diligent parent. So, I'm letting them do this 'adult' thing because of that," is an assumption, that based on brain development facts is usually an overstatement/overestimation of what their kid really has processed and has at their disposal to protect them "out there." As a parent I'd find that a priceless thing to know, but if you don't, you don't. "
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I have no expectations regarding my children and their development - mentally or physically - I read a lot of books regarding children and stages of development but, I'll always maintain that they will make the same stupid and dumb mistakes I did when I was their age! - it's just part of the growing process and development.

It goes back to that school of hard knocks you mentioned, as a parent I just want to "try" and cushion the fall.  

In Response to Re: For the 20 somethings considering marriage....:

In Response to Re: For the 20 somethings considering marriage....:

I agree with this article.  I learned the hard way that there is a good way to argue and a bad way.  Nothing good ever comes from starting an argument with the dagger words "You Always" or "You Never".  It's much more contructive and helps the receiver to listen better if you word things from a personal point.  Such as "I feel this".  I also learned using this sentence "I feel this way because of this and it makes me feel turned off" works wonders!

A time out when arguments are getting very heated is a good thing to.  If I find myself ready to totally blow my top and start overheating and wanting to throw the digs out there?  I always say, "TIME OUT!  15-minutes and we will revisit this when we're both more level headed.

However, in my 20's would I have ever been able to do this?  Heck NO!