Submissive guy

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from softpatina. Show softpatina's posts

    Submissive guy

    When a guy describes himself as submissive (but not in an s&m kind of way) does that mean he prefers the woman to initiate sex?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    In what context?  Personal ad/online dating service profile?

    It can mean different things to different people.  You'll get a miriad of answers here, but the only one that matters is the one he gives you when you ask him to explain in a concrete way.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from softpatina. Show softpatina's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    You are right.
    And now I relaize how wrong it is that I don't feel comfortable asking him. He's someone I've known for over a year now. We've slept together in the past, but he pulled away after because he wasn't ready to get involved. That was last summer. It was too soon after the death of his wife. We got together again in February. He made a drunken b**ty call and I got sucked in, but then he pulled back again.

    I know he's having money problems. I've invited him to go for walks and come over and watch a movie and he says things that make me think he's waiting for me to make a move.

    Now that I look back on it, the times we have had sex, initiated by him, he was drinking. So I started to wonder if his kind of submissive was about liking the woman to initate things, which is fine with me. He's the kind of guy who likes to joke around and he's not comfortable having serious discussions.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheTinMan. Show TheTinMan's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    I'm sorry, but this sounds like the kind of mess that, if you were a friend in real life describing this to me, my first response would be "Why do you want to get yourself involved in all that?"
    His joking around and avoidance of serious discussions are defense mechanisms.  He either doesn't really know how he feels, or he's trying to avoid dealing with his own feelings.  He suffered the death of a loved one--has he really dealt with that? And what is causing the financial problems?
    My experience with this type of passive ("submissive") behavior is that it is an avoidance mechanism as well.  If you initiate intimacy or a relationship, he bears no responsibility if it doesn't work, or you get hurt.  Hey, you started it, that's your problem.
    If you want to be a real friend, and show some caring for this guy, be his friend and do not get romantically or intimately involved.  I think he needs to get his head cleared.
    You'd be doing him a favor, and I think you deserve better for yourself.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    First, I'll say that initiating sex is an emotionally complicated thing.  If you were in a solid, trusting, emotionally stable, mutually satisfying relationship and the only problem was that he didn't initiate sex, I'd say he just isn't comfortable with it and is relieved that you take that pressure off him.  End of story.

    But, you have a man willing to have sex but not "get involved," and you don't have anything that resembles a solid, mutually satisfying relationship.  Maybe he doesn't initiate because he feels guilty about making you his boot-y call.  And, maybe you're afraid to ask what the deal is because you know what it is.  I'm not judging you, but you sound ashamed, embarrassed and miserable to me.

    I think you already know this, but since you asked I'll answer outright.  I'm betting his being submissive/non-initiating is simply a way to assuage his guilt for using you.  You initiate it, after all, so how much responsibility does he believe he needs to take if you get hurt or feel used?

    I'd ask him point blank about all this and if he refuses to answer because it's "too uncomfortable" I'd advise you to take that for the answer it really is - he values his comfort over meeting your emotional needs.  And, since you already know that's the case one has to wonder what you can expect to gain by asking, but it can't hurt.  You can use the conversation to give you the emotional fortitude to break it off completely.  His "problems" aren't your problems.

    Best to you,
    ~kar
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from plasko. Show plasko's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    In most relationships one person tends to dominate the other. Be it a woman telling her husband what to wear, what plans they have for the upcoming weekend, where they are going on vacations, what they are going to eat tonight......Or perhaps a man always watching sports on tv and not spending any quality time with his lady.

    I think this guy makes it plain he is happy to have this back seat, and let someone else do all the driving. Maybe he was a mummy's boy, but to be fair at least he knows himself enough to know what he needs. Can you be that woman to make all the decisions in the relationship? A lot of women would be jumping up and down in glee to have a puppet. 


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    Agreed - there is no relationship that is a perfectly equal balance of power, and also agreed, sometimes the man drives, sometime the woman, and both scenarios are equally valid and can make for happy relationships.

    But, there's taking a back seat and there's not being in the car at all.  I think this guy is the latter, and when he sees the car he thumbs a ride (no pun intended) for a little ways and then flings (again, no pun intended) the door open and rolls out.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from softpatina. Show softpatina's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    I decided to take a chance a few days ago and invited him for a sleepover. We'd both had trying weeks and I thought he'd respond to a straightforward offer of a night of intimacy We've exchanged a few brief joking emails, but he hasn't actually answered yes or no, and I've decided not to press him for it.
    I'm giving up and backing out.

    At this point I don't like that I'm settling for scraps and almost afraid to speak up. I'm not even sure he's a nice guy any more, and that maybe I've cut him too much slack for the fact that he's suffered such a loss. Like the drunk who's a butthole while drinking could still be one when he's sober and it have nothing to do with the effect of the alcohol. I wonder if this guy was ever any good at letting his guard down and really present for his deceased wife.

    I don't want to get into internally bashing his marriage or play victim either.
    I can't be just his friend now even though I tried and he's been a good one mostly, I can't go backwards. I've been divorced and on my own for a lot of years. I want something good and easy and not something I have to work at figuring out.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheTinMan. Show TheTinMan's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    Good for you for having enough self-respect to take that step.
    Relationships are never necessarily easy (or at least not always easy), and they do take work.  But when it's a good relationship, it never seems like work.
    Certainly you shouldn't have to put in this much effort into figure something out.
    Give him a couple good guy points for not jumping on the last offer (pardon the pun), and go your separate ways.
    You sound like you have a healthy amount of self-respect, and an ability to see what's happening in a relationship fairly clearly.  You should be fine.
    The only thing I would recommend you take a look at would be the relationship with your ex, and this one.  Are there similarities in how you were treated?  Is there a pattern to your relationships?  Thinking about that might help you avoid getting into similar situations in the future.
    Good Luck.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from calmdown. Show calmdown's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    How could he not jump all over a sleepover invite? This is bothering me.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from plasko. Show plasko's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    In Response to Re: Submissive guy:
    How could he not jump all over a sleepover invite? This is bothering me.
    Posted by calmdown


    Maybe he feels like he is cheating on his wife, and when he is drunk its his "little head" that takes over. Anything is possible. She has only known him for a year, and not sure how long before that wife passed away. So it can still be raw emotion time for him. He can't let himself get close to people now as he fears the same thing happening again? Fear of intimacy after such a profound loss sounds pretty normal to me. It can take many years to build yourself back up again.
    But the poster does not have this sort of timeframe in mind, and fair enough she has her own life to live.
    I'd vote for being his buddy, but only friends and no more. Meanwhile start dating stable guys. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from softpatina. Show softpatina's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    The romantic in me wants to believe he likes me more than he's comfortable with, maybe even feels guity about it since it's just been over a year since his wife died. He has said things that indicate he is sincere about liking me.

    He's also had ED issues, which he claims doesn't bother him, he's happy to make me happy, but the last time we slept together was february. We're fb friends and have stayed in touch and in the last month or so I initiated some time together which he responds to enthusiastically. He sometimes calls to talk. So I thought I would take the initiative and invite him, but he didn't respond, so i sent him a note apologizing for suggesting it and possibly making him uncomfortable. He thinks I'm making a big deal of his lack of response.

    He's probably trying to push me away, so i suppose I should just go. I'm not going to want to be around him after being essentially shot down anyway. If I asked him right out what he wanted he'd probably say he doesn't know. I've tried not to be that needy woman guys hate who ask the relationship question. I honestly felt what we had could be a good fit. I don't need or want lots of attention and togetherness but I do want a companionship that includes intimacy.

    I was hoping he would take me up on the invitation so I could have a straightforward conversation. Right now in emails he's being a jerk and telling me I'm making a mountain out of a molehill for feeling bad for being rejected.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    I think your gut is telling you the right thing to do (not to mention his passive aggressive tactics).  The trick will be to salvage your self esteem in the process.  Repeat every day, as needed: 
    • His issues are not my fault.  
    • His issues are not my responsibility to fix.  
    • His pushing me away does not reflect poorly on me.
    • I have a basic human right to leave him; I do not exist to fix people.
    • I am worthy and deserving of being free to find someone who will welcome me into his heart.
    In a decent relationship you don't have to ask the "relationship question."  It's answered by the relationship itself.

    Best wishes,
    ~kar

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RogerTaylor. Show RogerTaylor's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    In Response to Re: Submissive guy:
    The romantic in me wants to believe he likes me more than he's comfortable with, maybe even feels guity about it since it's just been over a year since his wife died. He has said things that indicate he is sincere about liking me. He's also had ED issues, which he claims doesn't bother him, he's happy to make me happy, but the last time we slept together was february. We're fb friends and have stayed in touch and in the last month or so I initiated some time together which he responds to enthusiastically. He sometimes calls to talk. So I thought I would take the initiative and invite him, but he didn't respond, so i sent him a note apologizing for suggesting it and possibly making him uncomfortable. He thinks I'm making a big deal of his lack of response. He's probably trying to push me away, so i suppose I should just go. I'm not going to want to be around him after being essentially shot down anyway. If I asked him right out what he wanted he'd probably say he doesn't know. I've tried not to be that needy woman guys hate who ask the relationship question. I honestly felt what we had could be a good fit. I don't need or want lots of attention and togetherness but I do want a companionship that includes intimacy. I was hoping he would take me up on the invitation so I could have a straightforward conversation. Right now in emails he's being a jerk and telling me I'm making a mountain out of a molehill for feeling bad for being rejected.
    Posted by softpatina


    STOP! This guy lost his wife a year ago? ED? ...it's simple the guy is - justifiably so - suffering from depression!  I'll make a reach and assume that your a very attractive person but, depression can be debilitating to some to the point that they can't even get out of bed.  Should you stick it out with him? probably not but please be polite to him when saying goodbye. Do you know? - Does he currently go to grief counseling? Did he go at all? is he taking anti depressants? Talk with him, be a friend you don't have to continue dating...Good Luck!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from softpatina. Show softpatina's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    He did go to grief couseling and is taking medication.
    I understand he has a lot going on and his grieving isn't done.
    I met him online a year ago last March. He was charming and funny and fairly aggressive about meeting. I met some friends of his and even family members right away. After about a month he confessed, prompted by his ED, that his wife only only passed 3 months before. He told me it had been a year. He and his wife had promised each other that they would gone on and have other relationships if one of them passed. So he tried to move on right away.
    I was shocked and wary but already hooked so we continued through the summer. At one point I took some space because I felt myself getting too caught up. And later on at one point he stopped contact for a month and then reached out again, saying he was ready to date. We had one amazing date and then I saw some signs of discomfort again and ended it before I could get more hurt.
    Just before the holidays I friended him on fb and thought I could just be friends now. It was fine, I was dating someone else briefly, then he called me unexpectedly in February and like a fool, I answered.

    He just called a little while ago after a round of emails and he said he doesn't think of me in that way now. I know he feels a little bad, but I feel like I've lost a lot. I'm also angry and humiliated.
    It's hard to kick a widower to the curb even after they've lied, you make excuses about them being in shock, etc.

    I was kind in saying good bye, but I really don't think he's going to feel much of a loss.

    Thank you all for the support and viewpoints..it's helped me get through the day. If we'd met later on it could have been great.
    I wish people in crisis wouldn't try to get into relationships so soon. I understand why they do, but boy, it's confusing to others....and hard to walk away from.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnjoyEverySandwich. Show EnjoyEverySandwich's posts

    Re: Submissive guy


    Oh, Softpatina, I feel for you.  He really misrepresented himself from the get-go, which, regardless of his reasons, really didn't bode well.  I would guess if you had known that it had only been 3 months right from the outset, you would have been a lot more emotionally cautious.  What a shame!

    I should feel badly for a widower, but he really treated you dishonestly, so I have no pity for him whatsoever.  All my concern is for you.

    Be strong!! 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from softpatina. Show softpatina's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    Thanks again for the compassion.
    I do have self esteem issues that i've worked very hard on since my divorce but some things can only be worked through by practicing. I tend to be the nice girl who tolerates a bit too much then ends up feeling some resentment. I take too much responsibility for the relationship.
    I'm making some progress.....I'm not devastated by this but more angry with myself for letting it go so far without asking the difficult questions. And sad of course. I can see my behavior as a bit passive-aggressive as well. Live and learn!
    Now I have to fight those impulses to reach out to him and be supportive. He's self employed and has been struggling financially which accounts for much of his distance, but I didn't know how badly it was affecting him until he kind of laid it all out in a note a couple of days ago. He's been trying to keep up a good front so now I feel guilty because I realize he percieved my offer of intimacy as a draw on his limited emotional resources instead of taking it as a source of comfort and pleasure in trying times.
    I've gotten a little more pragmatic and even a little zen in my approach to sex and intimacy. It's healthy and natural and does wonders for the immune system.Smile
    I want to be close to someone sometimes but he doesn't have to be my whole world. Maybe he's afraid of that, or maybe his head is just too messed up to see straight.
    I'll go back and reread everything here to keep my head on straight. You guys are pretty darn smart.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Submissive guy

    Please don't beat yourself up over this adding insult to injury to your damaged self esteem.  Divorce is so common sometimes we forget or just don't fathom how devestating it really is.  I went through a divorce and know exactly where you are.  I grew a lot in that area through personal counseling for the 9 months or so after the divorce and not only improved my self esteem but identified why I had made the choices I had so as to avoid them in the future.  I'm happily remarried, now, after saying, "never, never, never, again."  As discussed in another thread, counseling is not for everyone, but you seem the self reflective, self improvent type who I think would get as much out of it as I did.

    Yes, be compassionate, but draw the line at doormat, as you have.  It is not your responsibility to fix broken men by dating them even if it's difficult to walk away.

    Best to you,
    ~kar 

    P.S.  I always want to ask people who say that I learned something the hard way, "As opposed to what?  The easy way?"  If there's an easy way to learn anything about anything, especially relationships, please let me know.  In the meantime, be easy on yourself for being human and stay strong as you implement your newly learned lessons. 
     
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