Your Thoughts

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rooster69. Show rooster69's posts

    Your Thoughts

    She's smart, sexy and attractive. She's caring and thoughtful. We have similar interests. She loves my kids. She also will drink a bottle of wine at a time and be very hurtful to me. She has depression. I'll come home from work. She'll be depressed and she'll want to know what's the matter with me. She lives with me in a house I bought. She has a 1/4-time job and doesn't contribute much to bills. She lies. Doesn't get along with her family. Regularly goes on about what a terrible father she has. Treats one sister horribly. Loves other sister, but will get in fights with her and not talk to her for months. We argue weekly and monthly will get into fights that will leave us not talking for days. She'll say things like, "know we have no long-term future together," "this place is hell," "I'm in prison here," etc. On the outside, she treats people nicely and seems to save this anger for me.

    I'm divorced. Have two kids that are so wonderful, I don't deserve them. I've gotten on my feet after the divorce and bought a home and have my kids half the time. Money's tight for me, but am getting by. Have job I like. Have interests: home projects, fitness, guitar and skiing. I'm respected by colleagues and friends. Have an optomistic personality. I just want to come home and not wonder if there is some problem I'm not aware of. There are times when I don't know what's waiting for me with her when I come home and I don't want to go home. I'd like to have a beer or glass of wine and not be afraid it will become a disaster. Most of the time, I love her and want to marry her. But when we fight and I think about a second divorce, one in which she'll likely take everything because of my earning more than her and having assets, it scares the heck out of me.

    Loves her, but walking on eggshells. Your thoughts.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JEnvie. Show JEnvie's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    dont walk on eggshells, run on them
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from lukes58. Show lukes58's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    ditto on running on the shells
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from AlyssaJones. Show AlyssaJones's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    You say she's "smart, sexy and attractive"... is she also good in bed?  Could that be the thing thats keeping you with her?  Just asking.  

    I think if you are considering marrying this woman, she needs to get her issues straightened out... the best way would probably be through therapy and possibly AA. Have you told her how you feel?  You need to think about your kids.  Do you really want to expose them to a depressed, angry alcoholic?  Do you want them to worry about what kind of step-mother they are coming home to?

    I think you deserve better. There are lots of wonderful women out there who would probably treat you better.  If you marry her, make sure you get a pre-nup.


    -AJ
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2ada63d622e89774a9fdcbc90527ab8e. Show 2ada63d622e89774a9fdcbc90527ab8e's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    Wow. Can you get her into treatment for depression? A bottle of wine at one sitting is a lot of alcohol for a woman to metabolize; does this happen often? She may also need to be treated for alcoholism.
    I don't think you should marry her in her current state for sure. Is there a reason to marry vs living together? Times have changed and there is nothing wrong with living together so there need be no rush.
    Maybe some counselling would help. You should go anyway, so you have someone professional  and impartial to talk to. There's no shame in it; counselors are trained to be discrete and there is nothing they haven't heard before. Interview several of them and shop around.  I've done it myself. Good luck.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from AlyssaJones. Show AlyssaJones's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    Not to mention the fact that a bottle of wine a night is an expensive habit!  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from FairandbalancedI. Show FairandbalancedI's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    Just wondering what could have her feeling so trapped. Maybe she's reacting to things you've done. Two sides to every story, after all.
    Do you make her feel like she lives in "your house," like you described it? Could be that she already understands you only love her "most of the time."
    Might want to look at yourself. Sorry, just saying. I mean, you are already divorced once, right? What happened there?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    Regardless of what he might have done to lead to any of her bad behavior, the relationship is clearly a disaster.  He'll know what he should do if he simply asks himself, "Is my relationship with this woman the type of relationship I hope my grown kids will have with their significant other?"  If yes, by all means, keep modeling it for them so they will understand what a "normal" and expected relationship is supposed to look like.  If the answre is no, he has to break it off not only for himself, but most importantly his kids who are internalizing this relationship as "how life is."  And, last but not least, the woman herself will benefit if she gets therapy, gets out of these destructive habits, gets medical help for her depression and alcohol abuse, and who THEN can be FREE to enter into a different relationship from a much healthier place.

    His first consideration should be his kids.  Kids learn what they live, and they are already emotionally stamped by the first marriage that obviously didn't go well and wouldn't be one to emulate, either. 

    Try being alone or modeling the type of relationship you'd be happy to see your kids have someday...because that IS what will happen either way.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 5thtry. Show 5thtry's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    marriage sounds like fun.  i'm sure your wonderful kids are looking forward to it as well.  you're worried about your assets? 

    Your lady may have bi-polar - depression and anger -, not to mention a possible drinking problem. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from FairandbalancedI. Show FairandbalancedI's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    Ya, I see your point. I guess I'm just trying to look at it from the standpoint of "it takes two." Usually it's not just one person with all the problems. Counselling would be good, cuz it  helps us look at the ways we contribute to problem relationships.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    It always takes two, but if one of the two has clinical depression and a drinking problem, the relationship is a trainwreck regardless of what the other of the two is doing to handle it or contribute to the problems.  Just because no one is perfect doesn't negate the option to break it off with someone who is too dysfunctional to make any relationship work.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 5thtry. Show 5thtry's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    In Response to Re: Your Thoughts:
    [QUOTE]It always takes two, but if one of the two has clinical depression and a drinking problem, the relationship is a trainwreck regardless of what the other of the two is doing to handle it or contribute to the problems.  Just because no one is perfect doesn't negate the option to break it off with someone who is too dysfunctional to make any relationship work.
    Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]


    i didn't see your post before mine.  good advice.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    Thanks.  Just hoping others can benefit from what I've learned the hard way myself.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from FairandbalancedI. Show FairandbalancedI's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    I don't think, according to rooster69's post, that this woman should be treated as a bipolar person. That's a heavy claim. Also, I tend to be curious about stories of a woman who is using words like hell and prison about her relationship, which forces me to ask myself what could be so bad.
    I obviously think these two shouldn't be married, probably shouldn't even be together, but I'd be slow to judge the woman as someone with clinical depression or bipolarism.
    I'd need to hear more about it. Perhaps if rooster69 had acknowledged some kind of fault (which, in fact, I think he did without meaning to), it would be easier.
    Just been through too much in my own life to hear a story like this and not think there's something more going on.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2ada63d622e89774a9fdcbc90527ab8e. Show 2ada63d622e89774a9fdcbc90527ab8e's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    I hear whal all of you are saying about there being problems on both sides of the relationship but the reason I recommend individual counselling as well is because it can help you analyze what's happening and see where you contribute to it and how you can disengage from negative interactions and get more of the results you want or need. It can also help you develop language to use in situations. So if she won't go to counselling, I think he should go anyway.
    Only a professional is going to be able to say if she's clinically depressed or alcoholic. She's got some tags for alcoholism, though, in particular lying. And, let's not forget, most alcoholics are wonderful people a lot of the time, so it's easy to find them confusing. I've got a BIL who is part of the time the smartest, funniest, nicest guy and part of the time an SOB.
    Saying you feel like you are in hell or in prison is not good, under any circumstances, and I think the only rational response to that is: "That's no way to live; let's get some help." As for hating her father...maybe she has good reasons, maybe not.
    These two are thinking of getting married, not married already. I think they'd better hold off until they either get a healthier relationship going or break it off. I have another relative who's a recovering alcoholic and he won't marry again; he has a LTR with a lovely woman but he just won't marry her. And, there's no need to marry in today's society unless more children are planned.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    I agree, the issues described are not that of a bipolar person.  Bipolar isn't psychobabble for "two big problems," it's a medical condition that causes vacillation between extremely high and extremely low (the two poles of emotional experience) with not much (if any) time spent in emotional middle.

    On the counseling front, depression and alcoholism are best worked through without being fettered by a relationship that is already poisoned and enabling habits are deeply entrenched. (I'm not saying no support from anyone, just not this relationship.)  The relationship itself becomes a toxic, not helpful, factor, and the OP didn't start off with "I LOVE this woman," he started off with the fact that she's physically hot and a number of other "positives" (the afterthought at the end wasn't even a real sentence telling me he can't actually say "I love her" because he doesn't.)  This tells me that the relationship can be sacrificed for the good of everyone involved.

    There's a huge difference between love and pity.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2ada63d622e89774a9fdcbc90527ab8e. Show 2ada63d622e89774a9fdcbc90527ab8e's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    I hear what you are saying, kargiver, but I don't like to limit my view of a person or a relationship by one short post. I don't know whether their relationship can survive working through difficult issues. I've sure seen a lot of people work through a lot of difficult things over the years. So, I'm not voting for jumping ship immediately.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from plasko. Show plasko's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    Thats several people who have mentioned alcoholism now, but no evidence.
    A bottle of wine is not a lot of booze, depending on the timeframe. Say its Saturday night and she starts it at 5pm, and finishes it at 10pm while watching some movies and taking a bath. Thats barely 1 glass per hour, and the rest of the week she is sober. This still fits in with his "a bottle of wine at a time" saying, even though its 1 bottle in a week. Maybe she refuses to share it with him, thats why she is very hurtful to him and he brings it up?
    Now if she is hammering back a bottle at breakfast everyday before work, thats a different story. 
    Ah, so quick to judge we are. Lady drinks a bottle of wine and she is an automatic alcoholic. Whats next, she enjoys sex and is a-slut?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    GMV, I respect that and agree to some extent.  However, on the other hand, I figure that people are at their wits end having dealt with a very bad situation for a long time with no relief before they post something like this (especially a man who isn't prone to just venting and getting past it for having vented).  So, I take the opportunity to get the OP to strongly consider his predicament from as dire a standpoint as it might truly be from his point of view.  If I'm wrong, no harm done.  No one is going to dump a relationship worth saving on the advice of a stranger.  BUT, if someone is looking for an impartial person to say, "Yes, you CAN get out of this," on the other hand, he might get up the courage to do what needs to be done.  And, how people express themselves is often telling.  If he'd started off with, "I love this woman so much, I can't imagine my life without her, but...." that would be indicative of a relationship that might have more of a chance.  But, he didn't.  He started off with "she's hot" and stuck in a half hearted semi-sentence declaring his "love" after the numerous things he considered to be more important than that (evidenced by his mentioning them first).  Big red flags of expression like that are just that, big red flags.

    Plasko, 4 - 5 glasses of wine a night is a problem for a woman, especially.   Maybe she's not an alcoholic, per se, as defined by a psychology textbook (as you say, we don't have enough information), but taken all together with the information we do have, I'd bet the farm she's doing some serious self medicating with a bottle of wine a day.  If he had meant a bottle a day on Saturdays that's what he'd have said.  You know alcohol doesn't "average out" - a bottle of wine in any one evening isn't the same as 5 glasses a week, one glass per night.  It isn't processed the same way in the liver, have the same effect on the brain, etc.  With a post like this all we can do is do the best we can to assess the situation.  If we're wrong, we're wrong, but the message between the lines is as valid as the words themselves, and to interpret things as best we can isn't being judgmental of a person's heart, it's being observant and as helpful as we can be given a limited picture.  The picture I see behind this OP's lines is grave.  But, grave is in the eye of the beholder, the beauty of asking for many people's opinions.  I have my own life experience that colors everything I see...as does everyone else.  A wise person, when asking for advice, is going to keep that in mind.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2ada63d622e89774a9fdcbc90527ab8e. Show 2ada63d622e89774a9fdcbc90527ab8e's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    @plasko- Love your avatar!!!

    The letter writer mentions her drinking a bottle of wine and being hurtful to him in the same sentence.  It certainly sounds she's more vocal about her frustrations when she drinks. We don't know if she's an alcoholic, but it's worth thinking about.

    A bottle of wine in one evening is a lot of alcohol for a woman. They don't process it as well as men do and it's not just a body-size issue. Also, some heavy drinkers can have lives that just go on as normal with no fights and no drunk driving...and others aren't just heavy drinkers, they're alcoholics.

    And, believe me, I'm not name-calling when I say alcoholic. It's a devastating disease but it can be treated.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from plasko. Show plasko's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    In Response to Re: Your Thoughts:
    [QUOTE]GMV, I respect that and agree to some extent.  However, on the other hand, I figure that people are at their wits end having dealt with a very bad situation for a long time with no relief before they post something like this (especially a man who isn't prone to just venting and getting past it for having vented).  So, I take the opportunity to get the OP to strongly consider his predicament from as dire a standpoint as it might truly be from his point of view.  If I'm wrong, no harm done.  No one is going to dump a relationship worth saving on the advice of a stranger.  BUT, if someone is looking for an impartial person to say, "Yes, you CAN get out of this," on the other hand, he might get up the courage to do what needs to be done.  And, how people express themselves is often telling.  If he'd started off with, "I love this woman so much, I can't imagine my life without her, but...." that would be indicative of a relationship that might have more of a chance.  But, he didn't.  He started off with "she's hot" and stuck in a half hearted semi-sentence declaring his "love" after the numerous things he considered to be more important than that (evidenced by his mentioning them first).  Big red flags of expression like that are just that, big red flags. Plasko, 4 - 5 glasses of wine a night is a problem for a woman, especially.   Maybe she's not an alcoholic, per se, as defined by a psychology textbook (as you say, we don't have enough information), but taken all together with the information we do have, I'd bet the farm she's doing some serious self medicating with a bottle of wine a day.  If he had meant a bottle a day on Saturdays that's what he'd have said.  You know alcohol doesn't "average out" - a bottle of wine in any one evening isn't the same as 5 glasses a week, one glass per night.  It isn't processed the same way in the liver, have the same effect on the brain, etc.  With a post like this all we can do is do the best we can to assess the situation.  If we're wrong, we're wrong, but the message between the lines is as valid as the words themselves, and to interpret things as best we can isn't being judgmental of a person's heart, it's being observant and as helpful as we can be given a limited picture.  The picture I see behind this OP's lines is grave.  But, grave is in the eye of the beholder, the beauty of asking for many people's opinions.  I have my own life experience that colors everything I see...as does everyone else.  A wise person, when asking for advice, is going to keep that in mind.
    Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]

    It is true that the recommended alcohol consumption for a woman is lower than a guy. But I bet that was based on a study years ago when women were slim and petite relative to men. Nowadays there are huge women out there who can probably deal with a bottle of wine like it was water and I know several women that can drink burly guys under the table. Unless she was asian ofcourse, then metabolism does come into play with lower levels of alcohol dehydrogenase. Also I think the term alcoholic loosely refers to someone who feels a "need" for alcohol to help them through situations. I must say that after a terrible day at work we all like a beer, so are we all alcoholics then? 

    But I agree that he brought up the negative stuff first and really focused on her faults. In all honesty I think he has decided to end this, at least subconsciously, and he just needs to know how to break it off in the most gentle way possible with his "tiger-woman". 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    Absolutely, we cannot call her an alcoholic with definitive certainty, but I am basing my opinion on his whole post, not the simple fact that she drinks a bottle of wine a night, which apart from the rest of his post could mean a variety of things.

    Yes, I'm as certain as I can be in this type of forum that he's decided to end it and was seeking emotional backup not "oh, keep trying, maybe it will work out, sometimes it does."  Men don't post to vent and keep plugging along.  They post because they have hit their breaking point and want validation from impartial people that it's OK to do what he knows he needs to do.

    ETA:  Women do not process alcohol as efficiently as men no matter what they weigh.  It's not healthy for any woman of any size to drink 4 or 5 drinks a day.  Furthermore, alcohol, being a depressant, is not good in that amount for anyone suffering from clinical depression.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2ada63d622e89774a9fdcbc90527ab8e. Show 2ada63d622e89774a9fdcbc90527ab8e's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    I haven't posted anything that says I diapproved of drinking :-)...because I don't. The way I read the letter I think it is possible that this particular woman has an alcohol problem.

    In terms of is he already out the door? I hear what you are saying (kar and plasko) but I think if it were that simple as getting some validation so he could end things he'd have done it already. That's why I am recommending some counselling, so he can work through exactly how he wants to end it and the language to use to get the best outcome. It's not as easy as handing her her coat and telling her to go live somewhere else. She's got a relationship with his kids and he'll need to handle that very carefully.

    Also, I want him to think about his choices and role in a relationship.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    Counseling (with a decent therapist) is always a good idea completely regardless of whether he should stay with this woman.  And, so is serious self reflection.

    As for my conclusions I've drawn, they were totally based on the overall tone (I felt was desperate), word choices, and, most tellingly, imo, the slapped on half-hearted love statement at the end.  The whole picture his post paints isn't one that inspires me with hope for the relationship or that it models anything worth saving for his kids.

    I can be wrong, but so can we all.  I've formulated my opinions of his post and what he should consider doing based on a total look at what he said and how he said it, not just the distilled facts.  What is said is not as important as how it's said.  We don't have the benefit of body language or inflection here so we have to use the tools we have to deduce what the real situation is.  I've done that to the best of my ability, but, again, could be wrong.  It's a limited set of tools here we have to work with.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2ada63d622e89774a9fdcbc90527ab8e. Show 2ada63d622e89774a9fdcbc90527ab8e's posts

    Re: Your Thoughts

    I don't feel that you are wrong about anything, Kar, I just add my own perspective. And my perspective includes that we sometimes care deeply for people who are flawed. Sometimes we give them a lot lot of leeway because of the positives they add.  It can be very confusing. I think there's a lot more going on here than meets the eye or makes it into a post.

    I think I've added any value I can here. Nice meeting you all in cyberspace.
     
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