OT-How should I/we handle this?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    brava, kar! Exactly my sentiment.
    Posted by pinkkittie27


    Thanks, Pink and Goodness - we almost always agree on matters like this, don't we. :)
     
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    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    Those lists for confrontation are helpful and I recommend making notes and such before confronting someone who has hurt you.  However, the list/notes must be concerning things that confronted person has done to the person doing the confronting.  The list of things that this poster had to sit through were NOT things that qualify as things having been done to the FIL.  They were merely things he hates about her, and he had no business bringing them up to her or anyone else.  Not the same at all, whatawag.
    Posted by kargiver


    Exactly!  It just sounded like a long list of "things I don't like about you... and, here's why".  So bad!!  I don't know, but who the hell asked him?  I love how he thought he had any sort of right to say anything to her (who's not his child) and make sure that his son wasn't in the room.  I think he's a coward for doing that, and his son (her husband) is taking his sweet old time confronting his father. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    On the contrary, what it seems like is that FIL doesn't like it when people express emotion, so he has trained his wife and son not to express it.
    Thus when he saw his DIL expressing it, he was upset.
    That doesn't make it okay.
    OP also didn't tell us how old the neice was. She could have known her for most of her life or for all of it.
    Even then, it's wrong for someone who is grieving to tell another person who is grieving that they don't have a right to be upset because they didn't know the deceased as well as they did.
    We all express grief differently. We should never judge others on the way they express theirs.
    I think that maybe the FIL knew that he couldn't tell his DIL that she had no right to grieve in the way she did, so he tried to make it about other behaviors.
    That's despicable. Her grieving showed that she cared about her neice as though she was blood. That's touchign and admirable, not something he should have seen as grounds for a "sit down"

    And if anyone wrote into an advice column about how they though their daughter in law was immature or needy, they would not be told to make a list and confront her.
    She is not their daughter, they are not her parent. They have no business trying to change her.
    The advice columnist would tell them to let it go. They're not married to the person, their child is. Unless the behavior is hurtful and offensive to your child, then but out.


    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
        My guess is that this is FIL's style, and DH knows it well from when he lived at his family home. His father as head of his household expressed his feelings to his son in the same way is my guess.  Otherwise, why would DH not want to know, what are you sitting down for a talk with my wife for?      While comforting her, he was being a rock in poster's eyes.  But DH may have been aware (from looks and comments) that her crying and being a total wreck , when the niece was someone she knew but not family, irritated his Dad.  For all we know, the whole list was things he and MIL had talked about and agreed he should mention, some grievances for years.      What FIL  thought of as her crying "making it all about her"  about someone she barely knew,  FIL  and MIL and maybe the niece's parents   all thought. We lost our grand daughter.  We lost our daughter.  Why is someone who met our son 8 years ago and married him 5-6 years ago, but lived OOT and knew  niece only a little compared to us ,  crying and carrying on more than we are? That seems to be what opened the floodgates for FIL.  I would guess at least that much (and probably the bug thing) DH was fully aware of before FIL said, we need to sit down and talk.  Several sides to this story, we are not hearing. In time, when people are less upset and more rational, there will be time to have other "talks." Funny how often here or in advice columns, people say -  you need to make a list of things that are bothering you, sit down  with the person, ask them not to interrupt - they can respond later-  and in a clear and unemotional way tell them everything that has been bothering you.  Do not do it in front of others.  And when you finish, make a nice gesture or give them a hug, show this is not hateful, just a need to make your feelings known.   Not so nice when you are the one hearing the list of grievances.  Or criticisms.
    Posted by whatawagSBNy
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    There's positive and negative confrontation.  Positive confrontation sets a relationship up for positive change.  Negative does the opposite.  Notes and lists can be implemented in both types. 

    If this wasn't negative with no chance of improving their relationship, I don't know what is.  I suppose if he'd punched her that would have been even more damaging, but maybe not even that could have made it worse.

    dkb, thanks for the second on that.

    ~kar
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Goodness1. Show Goodness1's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Imagine if the tables were turned, and the DIL went to her husband's parents and said all these terrible things. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Exactly, I don't think there's any explaining this away and I don't see the value in trying to understand where FIL was coming from.
    He was coming from a place that clearly dislikes his DIL, there's nothing good about that.
    Seeing as though he had the support of MIL, it seems she either must agree or just submits to her husband. There's nothing good about that.

     In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    Imagine if the tables were turned, and the DIL went to her husband's parents and said all these terrible things. 
    Posted by Goodness1

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Scorpio75. Show Scorpio75's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Seriously?  You seriously just wrote all of that and I assume with a straight face? 

    You create a list to address issues that were inflicted on you....for example you address a person if they repeatedly hit you.  This tirade by the FIL was a laundry list of things that he hated about his DIL, it was not done to improve the relationship.  It was not done to redress a wrong that was done to him personally.  It was done because he thought he could use the cover of grief to justify the abuse he just laid on his DIL.

    The OP's DH might have had a clue or maybe he should have had a clue but I am willing to cut him some slack on the intial reaction.  Why?  Because he was grieving and you cannot always think clearly, additionally he may have been in shock after learning what his father did.  Even if you know some one very well their actions can still shock you.

    The key is how does the DH change his tune or support and defend his wife now. For my money I would say that the DH call back one more time and if his mother says the father is not available and will call back, he should tell her that this will not blow over and he will expect a call later that day and if not then they have nothing to talk about.  It is harsh but it sounds like harsh is all that FIL will understand.


    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
        My guess is that this is FIL's style, and DH knows it well from when he lived at his family home. His father as head of his household expressed his feelings to his son in the same way is my guess.  Otherwise, why would DH not want to know, what are you sitting down for a talk with my wife for?      While comforting her, he was being a rock in poster's eyes.  But DH may have been aware (from looks and comments) that her crying and being a total wreck , when the niece was someone she knew but not family, irritated his Dad.  For all we know, the whole list was things he and MIL had talked about and agreed he should mention, some grievances for years.      What FIL  thought of as her crying "making it all about her"  about someone she barely knew,  FIL  and MIL and maybe the niece's parents   all thought. We lost our grand daughter.  We lost our daughter.  Why is someone who met our son 8 years ago and married him 5-6 years ago, but lived OOT and knew  niece only a little compared to us ,  crying and carrying on more than we are? That seems to be what opened the floodgates for FIL.  I would guess at least that much (and probably the bug thing) DH was fully aware of before FIL said, we need to sit down and talk.  Several sides to this story, we are not hearing. In time, when people are less upset and more rational, there will be time to have other "talks." Funny how often here or in advice columns, people say -  you need to make a list of things that are bothering you, sit down  with the person, ask them not to interrupt - they can respond later-  and in a clear and unemotional way tell them everything that has been bothering you.  Do not do it in front of others.  And when you finish, make a nice gesture or give them a hug, show this is not hateful, just a need to make your feelings known.   Not so nice when you are the one hearing the list of grievances.  Or criticisms.
    Posted by whatawagSBNy

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I agree, this needs to get settled ASAP. This insult should not stand.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    The key is how does the DH change his tune or support and defend his wife now. For my money I would say that the DH call back one more time and if his mother says the father is not available and will call back, he should tell her that this will not blow over and he will expect a call later that day and if not then they have nothing to talk about.  It is harsh but it sounds like harsh is all that FIL will understand. In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by Scorpio75

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ash. Show ash's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:

    Imagine if the tables were turned, and the DIL went to her husband's parents and said all these terrible things. 
    Posted by Goodness1


    I do always try to think of the opposite, Goodness, as well as what we would do if the offending party came here and asked what to do if he felt his daughter in law was acting really immaturely at his granddaughter's funeral.  I think it would be a mixed bag, truly, with some saying speak to your son, others saying stay out of it and others saying say what you feel.  And I think in laws do sometimes get a bum rap on here with daughters in law frequently being encouraged to speak their minds or "stop this before it gets out of hand". 

    Again, I don't this this father in law was right and I don't really think it was his business to intervene and I don't understand why the husband has not taken a more proactive role here...as someone said, if your father wanted to take your husband aside for a "talk" wouldn't you ask some questions?

    I don't usually agree with everything whatawag says, especially the occasional unrelated tangents, and I don't agree with all her reasoning here, but I see what she is saying.  I can't help but think this man saw something he felt was the latest in a long line of attention grabbing behaviors and that he thought that he was doing the OP a "favor" and was being "fatherly" by telling her all this.  I could see how he could put together a couple of his complaints as immature behaviors.  That doesn't mean that his assessments are correct or that even if they were that it was his place to say anything.  That's why I think her husband needs to talk to his father pronto and together she and her husband need to figure out what to do with this information.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I said (over and over) I do not like what FIL did, or think it was right or fair in any way.

    But I do know that everyone I know knows their parents' style for discipline and confrontations, even yes, criticism.
         I would think DH knows his father's style, knows maybe MIL and FIL make lists and talk behind the scenes, and FIL is sent to do the deed while MIL runs interference.
         I know the bounds of what is not a FIL place to say to a DIL. And FIL should MHOB.  The only things concerning him were ants in the house, and feeling DIL made grieving all about her.  Yes, I know sit down and talk lists are limited.  FIL does not.  He takes the advice his way.

          FIL does things differently, and I think DH knew it before any talk, the second Dad said, I am going to talk to DIL, and mother said,  come sit with me in the other room, son.  OP never brought up - DH and she have a communication problem.  Why didn't he say outright, this is how Dad likes to speak for himself and Mom.  That's why Mom is asking me to stay here.  And stop it then?  DH may be a rock, but that rock is either very dense or has major cracks.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I STILL fail to see how crying uncontrollably at a child's FUNERAL is immature!
    Can someone explain to me how this could be seen as immature?
    Because it sure as heck sounds to me like grief, not immaturity.
    If my niece died (SIL's daughter), I would cry uncontrollably at her funeral.
    Why? Not because I'm really immature or wanted attention, but because I was devastated that this child that I care about died.
    How is that immature?
    I'm still shocked that anyone could possibly see it that way or defend someone else who see sit that way!

    If someone came on here and asked "My DIL was crying uncontrollably at her niece's (our granddaughter's) funeral, and I thought that was really immature. What should I do?"
    I'd tell them to grow a heart! Their DIL wasn't immature, she was really REALLY f*cking sad! Anyone who doesn't see that or realize it is just plain sick in the head.

    If seeing someone grieve makes you think they want attention- I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I just have no words for what i think about that. It makes me ill. That says more about you than the person crying uncontrollably.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :  Goodness, as well as what we would do if the offending party came here and asked what to do if he felt his daughter in law was acting really immaturely at his granddaughter's funeral.  Posted by ash
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Goodness1. Show Goodness1's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I'm sorry, but unless there are major issues to confront like abuse of any kind, constant disrespect, outright rudeness, etc, then fine... say something.  I don't think that any of us know what really went on during the "list of things I hate, here's why, and you should fix them asap" aside from what the poster said.  Maybe there are bigger deep routed issues here, but I still feel the same way.  He (the FIL) has absolutely NO right to sit the DIL down and talk to her as if she were a child.  Not only that, but not giving her the opportunity to say her piece?  I don't think so.  I wouldn't thank anyone for pointing those things out to me.  No matter how constructive they were.  No one has that right, I'm sorry. 
     
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    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    I STILL fail to see how crying uncontrollably at a child's FUNERAL is immature! Can someone explain to me how this could be seen as immature? Because it sure as heck sounds to me like grief, not immaturity. If my niece died (SIL's daughter), I would cry uncontrollably at her funeral. Why? Not because I'm really immature, but because I was devastated that this child that I care about died. How is that immature? I'm still shocked that anyone could possibly see it that way or defend someone else who see sit that way! If someone came on here and asked "My DIL was crying uncontrollably at her niece's (our granddaughter's) funeral, and I thought that was really immature. What should I do?" I'd tell them to grow a heart! Their DIL wasn't immature, she was really REALLY f*cking sad! Anyone who doesn't see that or realize it is just plain sick in the head. In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by pinkkittie27


    I agree with you, Pink.  That behavior is NOT immature!  A child died.  If the FIL has any issues with his DIL crying at the funeral... I don't even know where to start.  Someone died, for crying out loud!!! 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    But that's exactly what Ash and Whata are saying- that FIL saw OP's crying as her trying to get attention.
    W  T  F???? Someone died! A young person died! If that's not enough reason to cry, what is? How could you possibly see that as someone trying to get attention for themselves? And if you do see it that way, then you need help! Not the person crying.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : I agree with you, Pink.  That behavior is NOT immature!  A child died.  If the FIL has any issues with his DIL crying at the funeral... I don't even know where to start.  Someone died, for crying out loud!!! 
    Posted by Goodness1
     
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    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    But that's exactly what Ash and Whata are saying- that FIL saw OP's crying as her trying to get attention. W  T  F???? Someone died! A young person died! If that's not enough reason to cry, what is? How could you possibly see that as someone trying to get attention for themselves? And if you do see it that way, then you need help! Not the person crying. In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by pinkkittie27


    EXACTLY!  I don't think the poster is looking for attention.  I think she was giving us as much of what happened as she could.  She's probably in shock that she even went through it, and embarrassed that her husband hasn't come to her defense.  That we know of yet, anyway. 

    A young person died.  I can't even imagine being confronted about something that has NOTHING to do with the child, but my own actions, etc, etc.  Um, what???  What does that have anything to do with what this entire family is going through right now?  BAD timing, dude.
     
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    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    Those lists for confrontation are helpful and I recommend making notes and such before confronting someone who has hurt you.  However, the list/notes must be concerning things that confronted person has done to the person doing the confronting.  The list of things that this poster had to sit through were NOT things that qualify as things having been done to the FIL.  They were merely things he hates about her, and he had no business bringing them up to her or anyone else.  Not the same at all, whatawag.
    Posted by kargiver

    I think this is a really good point, kar, but I would follow it up by saying this:  Its highly likely that he thinks these things, which he views as an affront to his son and family, are being done to him.  Or at least being done to his family.

    Now I know this is conjecture, but what she lists are seemingly unrelated, but if you put specific actions to them, you might see a pattern--runs out of the room everytime she sees a bug, refuses to come in the room when she sees the cat, harrumphs around when people are smoking where she is, is driving around an SUV they can't afford, needed to be comforted by her husband so much that he couldn't mourn, cried so hard at the funeral people thought she was the mother.

    As a parent, the hardest thing you can watch is someone harm your child, or do something that you feel harms your child.  My kids are only teens, but I don't really see this feeling abating any time soon.  And I can only imagine being in a situation where I thought their spouse was acting stupidly and having to bite my tongue.  Man, it would be so hard!
     
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    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    But that's exactly what Ash and Whata are saying- that FIL saw OP's crying as her trying to get attention. W  T  F???? Someone died! A young person died! If that's not enough reason to cry, what is? How could you possibly see that as someone trying to get attention for themselves? And if you do see it that way, then you need help! Not the person crying. In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by pinkkittie27


    I'm not saying that crying is trying to get attention.  Of course its appropriate to cry at a young person's funeral and to be very upset, regardless of how well you knew the person for.  I personally am imagining behavior was much more extreme than just crying or even crying inconsollably.  I know, I am sort of reading into some of this, but a few things she is saying really just struck me as odd, that's all. 

    If the husband is calling the family every day they are there and saying "We can't come over to the house yet because Angel can't get out of bed, she was up crying all night, I'm trying to help her", I could see the father in law getting the wrong impression.

    All I'm saying is that the guy could have legitimate grievances.  I'm not saying he should have aired them.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    That's a legitimate grievance??
    You think your DIL has gone off the deep end because of this death, so you pull her aside to tell her she's immature and selfish??
    No! If that was the case you tell your son you think their wife needs professional help or you tell your DIL that she's not handling her grief in a healthy way and needs help. You don't pile criticisms onto her and tell her what you don't like about her.
    And she said she told her husband to go be with his family and he chose to be with her instead.
    His choice.
    You can't blame OP for that.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :   If the husband is calling the family every day they are there and saying "We can't come over to the house yet because Angel can't get out of bed, she was up crying all night, I'm trying to help her", I could see the father in law getting the wrong impression. All I'm saying is that the guy could have legitimate grievances.  I'm not saying he should have aired them.
    Posted by ash

     
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    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    That's a legitimate grievance?? You think your DIL has gone off the deep end because of this death, so you pull her aside to tell her she's immature and selfish?? No! If that was the case you tell your son you think their wife needs professional help or you tell your DIL that she's not handling her grief in a healthy way and needs help. You don't pile criticisms onto her and tell her what you don't like about her. And she said she told her husband to go be with his family and he chose to be with her instead. His choice. You can't blame OP for that. In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by pinkkittie27


    I said I could see him getting the wrong impression.  I said he could have legitimate grievances, not that he did.  And I keep saying I think he was out of line in saying anythng

    ETA:  You know, I just suffered a loss not that long ago when my cousin died unexpectedly.  We were very close, like siblings and he and his wife were/are my children's guardians.   This is a hard position to mourn from.  I was with my family/his family every single day, but never thought much about my own mourning, I was much more concerned with his wife and children and his parents--my aunt and uncle.  I guess I am kind of worried for the poster that maybe she did something (and I said this in my first post) that was perceived as requiring the family to pay attention to her and not allowing them to mourn themselves.
     
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    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :  As a parent, the hardest thing you can watch is someone harm your child, or do something that you feel harms your child.  My kids are only teens, but I don't really see this feeling abating any time soon.  And I can only imagine being in a situation where I thought their spouse was acting stupidly and having to bite my tongue.  Man, it would be so hard!
    Posted by ash


    That's the point, all of these things may be annoying to the parents, but they are not harmful.  He is a grown man who is married and must make his own choices.  Mommy and daddy can't come save the day when things aren't playing out in their son's life as they would like.  Some parents want to control their children even when they aren't children anymore. 
     
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    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    I STILL fail to see how crying uncontrollably at a child's FUNERAL is immature! Can someone explain to me how this could be seen as immature? Because it sure as heck sounds to me like grief, not immaturity. If my niece died (SIL's daughter), I would cry uncontrollably at her funeral. Why? Not because I'm really immature or wanted attention, but because I was devastated that this child that I care about died. How is that immature? I'm still shocked that anyone could possibly see it that way or defend someone else who see sit that way! If someone came on here and asked "My DIL was crying uncontrollably at her niece's (our granddaughter's) funeral, and I thought that was really immature. What should I do?" I'd tell them to grow a heart! Their DIL wasn't immature, she was really REALLY f*cking sad! Anyone who doesn't see that or realize it is just plain sick in the head. If seeing someone grieve makes you think they want attention- I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I just have no words for what i think about that. It makes me ill. That says more about you than the person crying uncontrollably. In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by pinkkittie27


    I'm really immature...I cried my eyes out the other night watching Steel Magnolia's (I always do) and those aren't even real people.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from downtoearth. Show downtoearth's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    Seriously, I wouldn't have let him finish. I'd have told him to fsck off and blow it out his a$s after the first criticism. Whether or not any of these faults are accurate, it's none of his gd concern. It's between you and your husband. $crew family harmony, I wouldn't visit that a-hole again until I got an unqualified apology from him. To hell with being the bigger person. That's total BS.
    Posted by helphelpImbeingrepressed



    hahahhahahhahaha    I've missed you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    If he has the wrong impression- which, just to be clear, is assuming your grieving DIL is not grieving at all but trying to get attention- then he's a very sick individual who clearly never liked OP in the first place. Shame on him.
    He needs to figure out why people who show emotion bother him so much.
    Maybe the reason OP stuck out was that FIL's trained his family to be completely emotionally constipated because if they show emotion, dear ol' dad will sit them down and give them a talking to. He's one of those who believes that big boys and girls don't cry.
    Nuts to him. He shouldn't be projecting his insecurities and issues onto others.


    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : I said I could see him getting the wrong impression.  I said he could have legitimate grievances, not that he did.
    Posted by ash

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    exactly, it's none of his business unless he feels his son is in physical danger

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : That's the point, all of these things may be annoying to the parents, but they are not harmful.  He is a grown man who is married and must make his own choices.  Mommy and daddy can't come save the day when things aren't playing out in their son's life as they would like.  Some parents want to control their children even when they aren't children anymore. 
    Posted by dkb6248

     
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    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : hahahhahahhahaha    I've missed you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Posted by downtoearth


    That's it AuntB?  Come on!
     
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