OT-How should I/we handle this?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    That may be so, but that's their fault for perceiving it that way, not her fault for grieving in the only way that's natural to her.

    I'm sorry for your loss, but I don't think any of us should push our grief to the side because we're worried what others might think.
    You were able to help them even though you were grieving, that's great, that's admirable. But it wouldn't have been selfish or immature of you if you couldn't have helped them because you were overcome by grief.
    It's not for anyone to judge how you grieve or whether or not you're being helpful, it is for them to be thankful that so many cared about their loved ones.

    It's not bad to be so overcoem that you can't help. It's only bad if you're family and you don't grieve and you don't help. Doing one or the other should be greeted with support, nothing else. Doing both should be commended.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : I guess I am kind of worried for the poster that maybe she did something (and I said this in my first post) that was perceived as requiring the family to pay attention to her and not allowing them to mourn themselves.
    Posted by ash[/QUOTE]
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ash. Show ash's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]exactly, it's none of his business unless he feels his son is in physical danger In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by pinkkittie27[/QUOTE]

    Of course its not his business, I am agreeing with you!  But some people don't know that, they do think its their business, or they think, mistakenly, that they have found the right words to express their feelings.  It's not all about control, either.  When I read about the "hug", I really and truly thought "uh-oh, this guy thinks he just did this girl a favor!"

    And honestly, I do think there are times when I think you can say something.  There are a few situations where I can imagine pulling someone aside and saying "You really need to get yourself together, this is not helping Susie's mom and that is who we are here for".

    In the end, my advice is the same...the husband needs to talk to his father and find out what the heck is going on, and if he has no issue with how is wife is dealing with things, then he needs to defend her and his actions to his father.  I don't think they should wait for a call back--unless what they decide is that they don't want to have a relationship with them. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]I STILL fail to see how crying uncontrollably at a child's FUNERAL is immature! Can someone explain to me how this could be seen as immature? Because it sure as heck sounds to me like grief, not immaturity. If my niece died (SIL's daughter), I would cry uncontrollably at her funeral. Why? Not because I'm really immature or wanted attention, but because I was devastated that this child that I care about died. How is that immature? I'm still shocked that anyone could possibly see it that way or defend someone else who see sit that way! If someone came on here and asked "My DIL was crying uncontrollably at her niece's (our granddaughter's) funeral, and I thought that was really immature. What should I do?" I'd tell them to grow a heart! Their DIL wasn't immature, she was really REALLY f*cking sad! Anyone who doesn't see that or realize it is just plain sick in the head. If seeing someone grieve makes you think they want attention- I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I just have no words for what i think about that. It makes me ill. That says more about you than the person crying uncontrollably. In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by pinkkittie27[/QUOTE]

    From Original Post:  "We spent five days  with his (out of state) family to  mourn, support each other and attend services. I was a total wreck this whole time. I would often cry because I was so devestated and my husband was the rock (not crying). "
         Not - crying at a funeral. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    No, what you say is "I understang that your grief is strong, maybe you should go be somewhere else, as I am concerned that it may upset Susie and I know that's not your intention."
    No one should ever EVER tell anyone's who's grieving to "pull yourself together"

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : And honestly, I do think there are times when I think you can say something.  There are a few situations where I can imagine pulling someone aside and saying "You really need to get yourself together, this is not helping Susie's mom and that is who we are here for".  
    Posted by ash[/QUOTE]
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Oh good God you are such a contrarian- does it really matter if they were at the funeral or not???

    Crying after the death of a child you were close to and being devastated about it for 5 days is not immature, selfish or a ploy to get attention!
    I do not see how anyone could think that way.
    If you think it is, you're sick.

    After the loss of a loved one, which devastates you, life feels like a funeral. It's perfectly acceptable to cry uncontrollably when devastated
    Emotions and crying is not soemthign to hide and be ashamed of. Emotions should not be swept under the rug. Grief should not be bottled because soemone else deems it to be uncomfortable.
    Perhpas they are uncomfortable because they are uncapable of expressing their emotions in such a way. That's their issue, not the person who's crying.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : From Original Post:  "We spent five days   with his (out of state) family to  mourn , support each other and attend services. I was a total wreck this whole time. I would often cry because I was so devestated and my husband was the rock (not crying). "      Not - crying at a funeral. 
    Posted by whatawagSBNy[/QUOTE]
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Goodness1. Show Goodness1's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I can't imagine telling someone who is crying and grieving the loss of someone to "pull themselves together for the sake of someone else".  I think people deal with death in so many different ways.  No one is right or wrong for crying too much, not enough, or at all. 

    How could someone tell someone not to cry as how it might affect someone else?  Yikes!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I agree, appalling, just appalling.

    No one is judge and jury of other's grief.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]I can't imagine telling someone who is crying and grieving the loss of someone to "pull themselves together for the sake of someone else".  I think people deal with death in so many different ways.  No one is right or wrong for crying too much, not enough, or at all.  How could someone tell someone not to cry as how it might affect someone else?  Yikes!
    Posted by Goodness1[/QUOTE]
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Never said I felt that way,  I only said, several times,  the FIL obviously feels this .

    You keep projecting feelings on me I never had or stated.  I never said FIL was right, I said in several ways, not right, not appropriate on FIL part.  But he and MIL react to how they feel.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Goodness1. Show Goodness1's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I just don't know what I would do if someone told me to stop crying.  Even when I'm crying for a good reason (I cried at my bridal shower when I opened a gift from my grandmother who lives in Europe and wasn't at my shower).  It was so touching that she planned all these wonderful, generous, heartfelt gifts, that I started to cry.  Good cries, of course.  If someone told me, "Aw, come on... stop your crying", I'd be upset.  HA!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ash. Show ash's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]That may be so, but that's their fault for perceiving it that way, not her fault for grieving in the only way that's natural to her. I'm sorry for your loss, but I don't think any of us should push our grief to the side because we're worried what others might think. You were able to help them even though you were grieving, that's great, that's admirable. But it wouldn't have been selfish or immature of you if you couldn't have helped them because you were overcome by grief. It's not for anyone to judge how you grieve or whether or not you're being helpful, it is for them to be thankful that so many cared about their loved ones. It's not bad to be so overcoem that you can't help. It's only bad if you're family and you don't grieve and you don't help. Doing one or the other should be greeted with support, nothing else. Doing both should be commended. In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by pinkkittie27[/QUOTE]

    I agree, Pink.  People do mourn in very different ways.  And you're right, its for no one to judge how someone mourns or how someone helps a mourner, or even who exactly a mourner is.  When you are grieving yourself, it so hard to put things into perspective.  When my mother died, I remember my younger cousin sobbing inconsolably, to the point where I was trying to console her.  And since she rebuffed every effort my mother had to actually have a relationship with her, I remember being incredibly angry about it--like thinking, for goodness sakes, why didn't you talk to her when she was alive (and before you ask, I am not doing any weird psychological thing like transferring my anger to the OPSmile).


    In any event, I can't help but shake the feeling that there is more going on here and something happened that made the family say "Oh no, not again".   I know, I know, its complete conjecture.

    I will reiterate, because I think its getting missed.  I think the father in law was out of line.  I think he overstepped his bounds.  I don't think he should have said anything, especially at that point in time.  But, of course, he was also in mourning and that clearly clouds your judgement.  And I do think that it would behoove anyone who has been taken down a peg to look at what the person said before reacting--none of it might be true, but if it was, wouldn't you want to fix whatever was making people feel uncomfortable?

    I think its going to be very hard for this family to get back to normal.  That's why I have been agreeing all along with the fact that even when you want to say something, and even if what you are saying is 100% true and accurate, the very vast majority of the time you can't say anything at all.  As hard as it is.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    And I have said there is no value in trying to understand why he said what he did or why he feels that way.
    What he did was wrong, regardless of why. So the why doesn't matter.
    What they feel suggests they need help. They shouldn't see DIL as such a threat or offense. They obviously have deeply set problems to label another's grief as something being done to them.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]Never said I felt that way,  I only said, several times,  the FIL obviously feels this . You keep projecting feelings on me I never had or stated.  I never said FIL was right, I said in several ways, not right, not appropriate on FIL part.  But he and MIL react to how they feel.
    Posted by whatawagSBNy[/QUOTE]
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    But he wasn't listing behaviors, he was listing personal qualities.
    He didn't say "when you do xyz, it seems immature" or "when you talked about your car this time, it made me think you care too much about it."
    That would have been a constructive case about what needs to change, but that's not what happened.
    How is she supposed to change her personality? It's who she is. It's who their son fell in love with!
    How is she supposed to alter her behavior when he wasn't specific about what she does that bothers him?

    I know you're not defending it or trying to make it understandable, but by explaining it away, you are defending it and trying to make it understandable.
    It was wrong of him, no matter why. So the why doesn't matter.
    It's pointless for us to discuss the "why", because no "why" makes what he does right.
    And THAT'S what FIL needs to understand. No matter WHY he wanted to say those things, he shouldn't have.
    If he wasn't going to list specific things that OP did that upset him so that she had a chance to apologize or explain herself (which he had no intention of letting her do anyways) then he shoudl have kept his mouth shut.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :   And I do think that it would behoove anyone who has been taken down a peg to look at what the person said before reacting--none of it might be true, but if it was, wouldn't you want to fix whatever was making people feel uncomfortable? Posted by ash[/QUOTE]
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    then why point out that she wasn't at a funeral while grieving? Does it make a difference where you grieve?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]Never said I felt that way,  I only said, several times,  the FIL obviously feels this . You keep projecting feelings on me I never had or stated.  I never said FIL was right, I said in several ways, not right, not appropriate on FIL part.  But he and MIL react to how they feel.
    Posted by whatawagSBNy[/QUOTE]
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ash. Show ash's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I see this going in circles, so I need to stop, but I do have one final thought, even though all my thoughts seem to get misinterpreted.  Guess I am having trouble expressing myself.  I clearly seem judgemental of mourners in general and this OP in particular, and if you knew me, you would know that nothing could be further from the truth.  However, I can see where this grandfather could be coming from (again, though I think his approach to dealing with his "concerns" was inappropriate) and I think its possible that the OP did do something that was not appropriate.  That was how I read it.  I don't know why. 

    However, I honestly, really and truly have seen people act in ways that are inappropriate at funerals.  It is really uncomfortable when you are at a funeral and someone is crying more inconsolably than the child's mother.  And there really are people who need to remove themselves from the situation, not because its wrong or because its embarrassing, but because its making it difficult for the other mourners to mourn.  I would never tell someone to stop crying.  But there are people I would assist in taking out of the situation and try to find the words to console them appropriate.  And there are some people who need to be told to pull it together because they express themselves in ways that are really not appropriate.  I'm not saying the OP did any of this stuff by the way, this is just general.

    I said I was ready for the flames, but guess I was not :-(
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I don't know if it helps, ash, but I totally get what you are saying. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ash. Show ash's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]And I have said there is no value in trying to understand why he said what he did or why he feels that way. What he did was wrong, regardless of why. So the why doesn't matter. What they feel suggests they need help. They shouldn't see DIL as such a threat or offense. They obviously have deeply set problems to label another's grief as something being done to them. In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by pinkkittie27[/QUOTE]

    Oooh, I know I said that was it, but I just had to say that I do understand what you are saying here Pink...it is irrelevant, in the general context if there was any validity in what the father in law was saying.  He should not have said anything.  But when I read these posts, I do try to see every angle.  I can't help my constant overanalysis. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Goodness1. Show Goodness1's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I just re-read the original post, and I nearly laughed at when she wrote that her FIL told her that she "needs to stop being afraid of bugs and cats".  Um, okay.  That's an issue?  Really??? 

    I totally forgot about that.

    I still stand strong that this mess of a man had NO right to lay all this out on her.  Tell her all her faults.  Tell her that her husband comes before her.  Talking to her about how they "shouldn't try" and get pregnant right now.  Calling her immature.  I think the word was peppered throughout his lecture (because that's what it was).  He sounds like a mean old man to me. 

    If he were my FIL, I don't know if I could talk to him again.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ash. Show ash's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Thanks, ALF, but is that positive or negativeWink
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Peonie. Show Peonie's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]I STILL fail to see how crying uncontrollably at a child's FUNERAL is immature! Can someone explain to me how this could be seen as immature? Because it sure as heck sounds to me like grief, not immaturity. If my niece died (SIL's daughter), I would cry uncontrollably at her funeral. Why? Not because I'm really immature or wanted attention, but because I was devastated that this child that I care about died. How is that immature? I'm still shocked that anyone could possibly see it that way or defend someone else who see sit that way! If someone came on here and asked "My DIL was crying uncontrollably at her niece's (our granddaughter's) funeral, and I thought that was really immature. What should I do?" I'd tell them to grow a heart! Their DIL wasn't immature, she was really REALLY f*cking sad! Anyone who doesn't see that or realize it is just plain sick in the head. If seeing someone grieve makes you think they want attention- I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I just have no words for what i think about that. It makes me ill. That says more about you than the person crying uncontrollably. In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by pinkkittie27[/QUOTE]
    I just have to say that if my niece passed away (I hate even typing this) I would be put into the hospital from devastation....let alone crying uncontrollably.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Ash - I said I was ready for the flames, but guess I was not :-(

    Cheer up.  You have things to say worth listening to, even when people do not agree with you.  Due to life's experience, raising a family etc. you have a different perspective on some things.  You have lived longer and seen more than most of us, and that is a good thing.

    Those barbecue skewers they are holding do look a little ominous, though, don't they?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    See, we differ on this from a philisophical standpoint: what better venue to express your grief than at a funeral?
    The only way I could see it being disruptive was if it drowned out the person speaking.
    I think this a wrong way to think about grief: That someone doesn't have a right to be crying harder than someone else. They're expressing their grief differently. That's okay. It doesn't matter if it's in public.
    How can someone crying affect your ability to mourn?
    I hate to be sarcastic about it but: will someone crying not let you hear yourself be sad?
    If you're the one who needs quiet, shouldn't you be the one who mourns privately?
    When you're crying in grief, sometimes you don't want to be consoled, you just want to cry. You want to cry and cry and cry. Why should you have to hide yourself away or miss a funeral because of that? Isn't that the place to let your crying be heard?
    As long as you're not throwing yourself around on the ground or, as I said, drowning out the euology, then what's the issue?
    In many cultures, people grieve by paradin loudly down the street. Wailing, screaming, crying- this is done by the entire extended family. People in other cultures are more open about grief and emotions, in the US we act as though it's something to be whispered and be quiet about. Why? The immediate family members do not have some exclusive right to public grieving.
    Emotional constipation.
    Grieve openly with your entire family. That's the only way everyone can get those emotions out and feel relief, feel compassion, feel that you're not alone.
    Sitting stoically cannot accomplish that.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]  However, I honestly, really and truly have seen people act in ways that are inappropriate at funerals.  It is really uncomfortable when you are at a funeral and someone is crying more inconsolably than the child's mother.  And there really are people who need to remove themselves from the situation, not because its wrong or because its embarrassing, but because its making it difficult for the other mourners to mourn.  I would never tell someone to stop crying.  But there are people I would assist in taking out of the situation and try to find the words to console them appropriate.  And there are some people who need to be told to pull it together because they express themselves in ways that are really not appropriate.  I'm not saying the OP did any of this stuff by the way, this is just general. I said I was ready for the flames, but guess I was not :-(
    Posted by ash[/QUOTE]
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Angel525. Show Angel525's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I want to thank everyone who has responded to my post so far. I only just yesterday saw the email notifications alerting me to everyones reply. I just have one comment to the shallow shallow person who thinks I am doing this as an attention grabber. HOW DARE YOU? My husbands 16 yr old niece died. I would be just as devestated as if it was my 8 month old niece (my brothers child) or anyone close to me for that matter. I was at a memorial service and broke down just as I cried at the celebration of life service they had for her. Maybe crying like a baby was the wrong choice of words. Yes I was crying alot but I was not by any means loud in doing so. One of the niece's friends actually came over to see if I was OK. I was mourning the loss of a young promising life  and family member who died. How you can have the chutzpah to say I was doing it for attention is beyond me. To everyone else I will try to respond to everyone in one big email rather than bog this down with 100's of mini ones. Reading your answers has helped me. To answer a few hubby did talk to dad and dad kind of saw the light but was sticking by his guns on others. Will fill in more as soon as I have read everyones responses.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Peonie. Show Peonie's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]I just re-read the original post, and I nearly laughed at when she wrote that her FIL told her that she "needs to stop being afraid of bugs and cats".  Um, okay.  That's an issue?  Really???  I totally forgot about that. I still stand strong that this mess of a man had NO right to lay all this out on her.  Tell her all her faults.  Tell her that her husband comes before her.  Talking to her about how they "shouldn't try" and get pregnant right now.  Calling her immature.  I think the word was peppered throughout his lecture (because that's what it was).  He sounds like a mean old man to me.  If he were my FIL, I don't know if I could talk to him again.
    Posted by Goodness1[/QUOTE]

    Wow, I totally missed that. What does being scared of bugs or cats have anything to do with...well, anything?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Goodness1. Show Goodness1's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Angel, I was sorry for you, too when I read the post of where someone said you were doing this for attention.  That was horrible!!!  You were mourning the loss of a 16 year old person who was family!!  AWFUL!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from framerican51008. Show framerican51008's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Here is my list.  And Angel this is not directed at you.  As I said before, I don't know you personally and I don't make assumptions.  This is just in response to the thread and the hypotheticals that have been thrown out there.
    1) FIL was way out of line, no doubt.
    2) I think there is a grain of truth in Whata's posts on this particular thread.  Nothing wrong with trying to figure out FIL's perspective.  Doesn't mean we agree with it.
    2) We all know someone who looooves attention and always cries the hardest or laughs the loudest.  It's upsetting.  When my nephew died, if my brother's girlfriend had shown up and forced him to watch over her instead of letting him grieve with us, it would be been annoying as all he//.  NOT saying that is what Angel did, but that is what Whata and Ash are getting at (at least I think!).
     

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