OT-How should I/we handle this?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    hey, sometimes we have to get something out of our bodies to be healthy. Some times it's grief, sometimes it's #2. It's not going to win any popularity contests, but it needs to be done and we've designated places for this purpose.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : winner of the silliest analogy award!
    Posted by downtoearth[/QUOTE]
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kmt09. Show kmt09's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    [QUOTE]hey, sometimes we have to get something out of our bodies to be healthy. Some times it's grief, sometimes it's #2. It's not going to win any popularity contests, but it needs to be done and we've designated places for this purpose. In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by pinkkittie27[/QUOTE]

    I think this analogy is fabulous, actually!  Makes you laugh and makes a good point at the same time.  Well done, Pink!  Wink
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dkb6248. Show dkb6248's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]hey, sometimes we have to get something out of our bodies to be healthy. Some times it's grief, sometimes it's #2. It's not going to win any popularity contests, but it needs to be done and we've designated places for this purpose. In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by pinkkittie27[/QUOTE]

    LMAO!  You're too funny.  I'm trying to eat my lunch here Wink.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Thanks ;)

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]I think this analogy is fabulous, actually!  Makes you laugh and makes a good point at the same time.  Well done, Pink! 
    Posted by kmt09[/QUOTE]
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    sorry, tried to use the least gross terminology posssible!

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : LMAO!  You're too funny.  I'm trying to eat my lunch here .
    Posted by dkb6248[/QUOTE]
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pollux. Show pollux's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : No, went to Northeastern. It was an interesting course though. I am still not as comfortable as I should be talking about death. My Aunt's husband died on Saturday, and I am about to call her to give my condolences and it makes me so uncomfortable. I never know what to say.
    Posted by Peonie[/QUOTE]

    Not to hijack but I was a hospice volunteer for a number of years and I have found it easier than you think because you need to say less than you think.  Ask how she's doing.  If she says she's sad or lonely or shocked, you just have to say something to encourage her to talk more if she wants to: 'It's a lot to deal with'.  Just don't tell similar stories ('I felt the same way when my cousin died!') or try to make her feel better ('It's for the best.').  The offer to do something specific is a wonderful suggestion.  But, in the end, the person will remember that you called, not the content.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Peonie. Show Peonie's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Thank you. Well, he was very sick for about 8 months, and she sort of decided it was his time to go. So she knew it was going to happen on that particular day. I called her and got her VM, but didn't want to leave a message.

    I sent her a very nice card though.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rapunzel41. Show Rapunzel41's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]I still don't see how crying really hard at a funeral can make a mockery of it. People cry at funerals not only for loss but because of guilt and anger. If they don't vent it there, where should they vent it? Funerals are for venting grief. Posted by pinkkittie27[/QUOTE]


    Pink...

    Re-read Cos' post about her sister.  There *are* people who will make a show about grieving, making the wake or the funeral all about THEM and THEIR grief rather than about the person they are there to remember.  I can think of at least two people off the top of my head that I've wanted to slap some sense into over situations like this, because it was about THEM wanting the attention.  The Drama Queens.

    I have cried at funerals of people I didn't even know...  Heck, I remember sobbing when I learned Princess Diana died.  That's not what people here are referring to.  They are referring to those who ACT as though they are grieving, when in reality they are waving their "Look at me, look how sad I am, look at how much I FEEL" flag. 

    That kind of display makes me want to scream.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I know they exist, but if you have no proof that their grief is fake, then assuming so benefits no one.

    I just heard a great quote about cynicism from a book "That Old Cape Magic":

    "How ... did you get to be this woman's age and still believe ... that everything meant something? She was obviously one of those people who just soldiered on, determined to believe whatever gave them comfort in the face of all contrary evidence. And maybe that wasn't so dumb. The attraction of cynicism was that it so often put you in the right, as if being right led directly to happiness."


    Being right, as in this case of assuming someone's grief is feigned, will not make you any happier. It will only breed more resentment and anger.
    And since you will never know for sure, one way or the other, it's better to not assume anything at all. You assumptions are based on how you already feel about that person and situation, they are not tied to fact. Your assumptions are based iny our own anger and resentment towards that person. Assuming they are grieving AT you rather than AROUND you will only make you more angry towards them, and resent them more.
    Assuming nothing lets you grieve in peace.
    If you truly feel they are doing it for attention (which, again, they might not be, even a broken clock is right twice a day), the best thing you can is pay no attention at all.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : Pink... Re-read Cos' post about her sister.  There *are* people who will make a show about grieving, making the wake or the funeral all about THEM and THEIR grief rather than about the person they are there to remember.  I can think of at least two people off the top of my head that I've wanted to slap some sense into over situations like this, because it was about THEM wanting the attention.  The Drama Queens. I have cried at funerals of people I didn't even know...  Heck, I remember sobbing when I learned Princess Diana died.  That's not what people here are referring to.  They are referring to those who ACT as though they are grieving, when in reality they are waving their "Look at me, look how sad I am, look at how much I FEEL" flag.  That kind of display makes me want to scream.
    Posted by Rapunzel41[/QUOTE]
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rapunzel41. Show Rapunzel41's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]I know they exist, but if you have no proof that their grief is fake, then assuming so benefits no one.  In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : Posted by pinkkittie27[/QUOTE]

    Sometimes you don't need "proof" to know.  If you know the individual in question well enough, you know when they're ACTING grief-stricken vs. BEING grief-stricken.

    On the flip side, I was able to tell when one particular drama queen was completely devastated by the death because she sat in stunned silence for the entire funeral, unable to move or even cry.  She was on auto pilot and I was actually worried that she wasn't showing much emotion.  I was GLAD to learn that she lost it later, in private.

    (And Angel, none of that was directed at you.  I hope you've been able to sort out the general discussion from the posts meant specifically for you!)
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    But you can't really truly know. It's not fact, it's opinion.
    We all express grief in different ways.
    And the point is that, no one should be called out or asked to leave because someone assumes they're faking grief.
    No one. Not ever.
    People have been arguing that mayve the reason FIL sat OP down was that he assumed her grieving was too dramatic.
    I'm arguing that it goes to show that you should never assume or call out someone because of what you think.
    It's not fact.
    Unless the person says to you "I'm faking this." then you really don't know. You can assume, you can assume from what you know, you can assume you think you know. But you can't ever really truly know.

    No one anywhere can make a factual assumption about how someone else feels.
    Ever hear someone say "I Know how you feel?" and you get upset by it?
    No one can know how you feel. No one. Not ever. Not unless you tell them.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : Sometimes you don't need "proof" to know.  If you know the individual in question well enough, you know when they're ACTING grief-stricken vs. BEING grief-stricken. Posted by Rapunzel41[/QUOTE]
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from framerican51008. Show framerican51008's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    One thing that is bugging me is that it sounds like *hypothetically* anything she may have done out of grief is OK, but if FIL acted out of grief it is not OK.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]One thing that is bugging me is that it sounds like *hypothetically* anything she may have done out of grief is OK, but if FIL acted out of grief it is not OK.
    Posted by framerican51008[/QUOTE]

    Funny who people will make allowances for, and who they are unwilling to give much or any leeway.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sept2010Bride. Show Sept2010Bride's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I have to say...I am glad I was far far away for this thread......
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucy7368. Show lucy7368's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]I have to say...I am glad I was far far away for this thread......
    Posted by Sept2010Bride[/QUOTE]

    Me, too.  :)
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from heatherv1211. Show heatherv1211's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I wish I had been. :)  It's another thread where everyone feels misunderstood. 

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : Me, too.  :)
    Posted by lucy7368[/QUOTE]
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    crying hysterically or being incosolable out of grief is okay. It's not meant to harm anyone and I don't see how it could.

    Methodically making a list and isolating someone  so that you can tell them what you see as their every flaw is not exactly what I would call "acting out of grief"
    It was planned, it was calculated.
    But even if it was out of grief- no, it's not okay. It's not okay to attack someone out of grief. It happens, but it's not okay. It harms someone, especially when they are cornered, bullied and not allowed to defend themselves.
    If you do it, you need to apologize. When one gets upset and says things one shouldn't, one should apologize for that.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]One thing that is bugging me is that it sounds like *hypothetically* anything she may have done out of grief is OK, but if FIL acted out of grief it is not OK.
    Posted by framerican51008[/QUOTE]

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ash. Show ash's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]I wish I had been. :)  It's another thread where everyone feels misunderstood.  In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by heatherv1211[/QUOTE]

    I'll agree with that--including the OP and probably her father in law! 

    I hestitated posting my original post.  In spite of the original very long story, it seems like there is still more lurking behind the curtain.  And it seems like Angel has her hands full at the moment.

    (Also really liked your previous post, Heather!).
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from cosmogirl. Show cosmogirl's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Part of being an adult is behaving appropriately.  Of course it's appropriate to cry at a funeral.  I've been to many that the entire congregation is just a sobbing mess.  But if there is one guest who is so overwrought at a funeral or wake that she is calling attention to herself, she needs to pull it together or step out.  She is taking the attention off the services and the deceased, whether she means to or not.  (Obviously I'm not talking about the niece's parents etc.)

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Again, this is a cultural difference. In some cultures the whole extended family wails and screams in mourning. I do not think that only certain people should reserve the right to be really visibly upset at a funeral. You cannot rate and rank people according to association and then assign the level of grief they are permitted to display. That's just bizarre.
    However, I do think that if you're drowning out the euology, that maybe someone should help either calm you or escort you out while the euologizing is taking place.

    "Big girls don't cry", eh? I think it's perfectly acceptable for adults to grieve int eh way that is natural to them.

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]Part of being an adult is behaving appropriately.  Of course it's appropriate to cry at a funeral.  I've been to many that the entire congregation is just a sobbing mess.  But if there is one guest who is so overwrought at a funeral or wake that she is calling attention to herself, she needs to pull it together or step out.  She is taking the attention off the services and the deceased, whether she means to or not.  (Obviously I'm not talking about the niece's parents etc.)
    Posted by cosmogirl[/QUOTE]
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from downtoearth. Show downtoearth's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]Again, this is a cultural difference. In some cultures the whole extended family wails and screams in mourning. I do not think that only certain people should reserve the right to be really visibly upset at a funeral. You cannot rate and rank people according to association and then assign the level of grief they are permitted to display. That's just bizarre. However, I do think that if you're drowning out the euology, that maybe someone should help either calm you or escort you out while the euologizing is taking place. "Big girls don't cry", eh? I think it's perfectly acceptable for adults to grieve int eh way that is natural to them. In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by pinkkittie27[/QUOTE]

    I'll need bullet points - what's ok and when.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    And I'll need your lisiting of who is allowed to be upset and how upset they are allowed to be.
    "Sorry Susie, but you're grieving at a level 8 and your relationship with the deceased and our past knowledge of your personality means you're only allowed to grieve at a level of 5 or less."

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : I'll need bullet points - what's ok and when.
    Posted by downtoearth[/QUOTE]
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Angel525. Show Angel525's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]And I'll need your lisiting of who is allowed to be upset and how upset they are allowed to be. "Sorry Susie, but you're grieving at a level 8 and your relationship with the deceased and our past knowledge of your personality means you're only allowed to grieve at a level of 5 or less." In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? :
    Posted by pinkkittie27[/QUOTE]

    I want to thank everyone for their input. I apologize for not answering each and every post as I did not want to bog down the discussion. I was not aware until a few days ago my post was even being read as I did not start getting notifications until 2-3 days after I posted. I am going to try and answer everyone’s questions and concerns. I hope I am able to answer everyone’s question(s). One thing I did not include in my first post was that I do have several medical conditions (some more severe than others) that could be connected to some of the issues that FIL saw in me (I did not even list all his gripes). He knows I have these medical problems and if he can’t see past them when hubby can, "bleep" him.  I leave the room when /if he smokes so I won’t be disruptive if I do in fact get sick or just don’t want to be around it. I want to thank Pinkkittie and everyone else saw my grief for what it was… grief. It was NOT for attention. I was mourning a young promising life taken way too soon. I had known her most of her life (nine years). She had her whole life mapped out. My husband and I talked prior to the chat w/FIL and hubby thought it may be about his dad’s smoking. He thinks his dad feels put out because he has to leave the room or house to go smoke. I never asked him to do this. He took it upon himself to do this knowing it bothers me. It bothers hubby as well but he deals with it because he grew up with it and is use to it. I never complained about the cats/bugs. I can stay in the same room as them. I will pet the cats, I just prefer not to pick them up and hold them. I kept my comments about the ant colony to myself. I also never mentioned anything about us not being able to afford our car(s).  The family friend that offered the use of his house is well known around town. He did it out of kindness. So we can have time to ourselves. His parents were  the ones who actually told us to take the offer.Well here goes the rest.

    After the discussion/reaming by my FIL that last what seemed like an eternity but was likely a good 15-20 minutes and(who I was at times flipping off under the table), everything I had held on to waiting to say/respond to him was out the window due to how badly I was hurt by his comments. I lost everything I had wanted to say.  Hubby said he did not know what was going to happen and I believe him. I was not going to mention anything in the car to my husband about the conversation that just ensued as we were heading to the site where his niece was killed in the accident. I did not want to interfere with what was supposed to be her time. My husband knowing how I keep things in could tell something was wrong. I told him I wanted to wait until we left the site to head home to start talking about it.  It was then I started to quietly cry (which I was doing at the funeral and celebration of life ceremony). I am NOT a loud crier who brings attention to herself or causes a scene. Also whenever I attend funerals it brings back memories of when my brother died 22 yrs ago, making funerals /deaths that much harder and why I was crying off and on (again NOT loud). To the person who thinks I should get counseling to deal with my brother’s death. Thanks for your input, but how can you really get over the death of a brother or anyone close to you for that matter? My parents lost their son and still cry about it. Family was all around us so hubby was not just staying with me. Yes, he was next to me so he was able to console me and me there for him. My husband is also not one to show his emotions (cry at funerals), hence his reason for being the rock. To Whatawag your comments really show chutzpah; about crying when being an outsider to bring attention to myself. Since when is being a DIL considered an outsider? I have been part of the family for the past six years. If you really want to be technical I could say the full 10 we have known each other since 1999 (when we started dating). Also we have also always gone to see his family, recently they are the ones that have canceled on us the past 3-4 times. We are NOT well off by any means, so our car(s) have nothing to do with it. We take turns using each others car every time we go somewhere so as not to pile milage on one car. We love his parents. Also how is my being there not seen as comfort? I attended services for 5 hours. If I did not love my family and care to show my support would I have done this?

     After the personal attack by FIL hubby finally got me to open up about what happened. He was not a happy camper. I could tell by his facial expressions and the way he was gripping the wheel. I asked him to be honest with me and tell me if in fact I was/had been doing any of the things FIL mentioned. If I was doing them I wanted to stop. He said no.  I asked him why he did not try to come in and he said if my dad wanted me out of the room he would see to it that I was kept out. He also said he would talk to his dad. I can’t remember if it was that day upon our arrival home or the following day that he placed the call. His mom answered saying dad was not available but would have him call us back. It was not until almost a full week later (5-6 days) that his dad called us back.  My hubby did not hound on his dad every day because his family is still grieving and he wanted to give his dad “some” time. His dad knew he wanted to talk. Hubby said if dad doesn’t call by “X” I will call back. I was fine with this.

    So the day comes and dad calls back. I was in the kitchen making dinner while hubby was on the phone in the other room. I was unable to hear most of what hubby said, but I would pop in every so often to listen to hubby and hand him a note if something I wanted stated would come to me. The few times I popped in I could hear him say to his dad but you don’t see ….., but she does… He was sticking up for me and standing up to his dad. He finished his call with his dad and filled me in on what his dad said.  He told me his dad would be calling back in a few days to talk to me directly. UGH.. more waiting. He did say his dad said he should have approached him before talking to me. Dad did call about 3 days later and we spoke. I felt better after doing so. After voicing my opinions/thoughts dad said he did not realize I was doing some things he mentioned to me earlier (in terms of teaching the kids and wanting to do more than play and other examples I cited). The reason for not letting me speak was he just wanted everything out in the open even though he had the list. He should have let me have my say. I am still a bit angry with him, and it will be a long time before I can look at him the way I use to. There are some choice things I would love to say to him about what I see as his faults, but I am not one to stoop to his level. To everyone else who still thinks I was doing this to seek pity for myself you can pretty much read my mind. I had the unfortunate exprience of watching my brother slowly die from cancer almost 23 years ago. Death, funerals and everything connected to it hits hard for me. It brings back memories of my brother and other family members I have lost to illness or naturallly. Everytime someone close to me dies it always brings back those memories (whether at funerals or not) that never go away. Counseling doesn't always help.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Angel- I'm glad to hear that you and your DH have had a chance to talk with your FIL and that the situation is improving. I was hoping that would be the case.
    I'm so sorry to hear about the painful losses you have endured in life. Any good grief counselor would tell you that you are 100% right, that grief never "goes away", you just learn to live with it. It sounds like you are doing what's right for you, and that's what's important.
    Thank you for sharing with us.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Goodness1. Show Goodness1's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Angel, thank you for coming back and sharing all that you've been through with you FIL.  I can only imagine how difficult it must've been to have to deal with something like that in your own family, let alone on these boards.  You didn't deserve anything that was said about what you went through from anyone here or from your FIL.

    All the best to you and good luck.
     

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