OT-How should I/we handle this?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ash. Show ash's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Angel, thanks for the update.  I also appreciate you taking the time to come back here and follow up.

    To a few things you said in your update.  Memories are not supposed to "go away".  I don't know why you think that, or why you think anyone thinks that here.  No, you don't "get over" the death of someone, this isn't even a phrase I would use to discuss coping with death, but you do absorb it, process it, and incorporate it.  Crying has nothing to do with this.  I still cry for my mother sometimes, I think of her and miss her every single day.  Maybe I misinterpreted your use of the phrase "haven't gotten over his death yet", but I was wondering if you'd fully moved through all the phases of grieving, even after this long time.  You were quite young when your brother died.  Maybe you never processed it properly.  Maybe you did.  As I said, I really don't think I would ever use the phrase "getting over someone's death" in a positive or negative way.  Learning to live with someone's death does not mean you forget the person.

    For the record, I don't hear anyone saying that you were doing anything to try to get attention on purpose or even that you necessarily did something not on purpose that attracted some attention.  People like that do exist and in truth there are some people who do need more attention than others and they aren't actually do anything on purpose, this is just part of their personality (and I am absolutely not saying you are such a person, or implying anything of the sort).  I for one, have a friend who in spite of being the kind of person who would give you the shirt off her back, manages to turn every conversation around to herself.  She doesn't mean to do it.  That's just how she is.  I (can't speak for the others) was merely asking if you could think of anything that might have happened that set your father in law off or if he's acted like this before.  I think those things are important in figuring out what to do, and I still think I'd ask them again.

    As I suspected, there were other issues involved here and I'm seeing a different sort of picture evolve here.  I don't mean this in a positive or negative way, it just makes things a little clearer.

    I have more thoughts, but can't get them organized now.  Some of them are moot with the update, so maybe I'll let this one go.

    In any event, Angel, I am sorry for your family's tragic loss.   I send you a traditional Jewish message to mourners--May God comfort those who mourn.  If the thought of God does not comfort you, then know that many people are thinking of your family and sending compassion your way.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from whatawagSBNy. Show whatawagSBNy's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

         Angel,  If you look back, I never said you were crying to get attention.

         What I said was, everything you were doing, your FIL  was seeing and interpreting differently.  As in,  you cried a lot, HE seemed (by what he said) to take it as, since you cried and were what you called a wreck,  more than some immediate family,  you were trying for attention.  Not me.
         You came with DH to be supportive and comforting as family,  but  FIL suddenly acts like,  not born to family,  no right to act like you are as hurt as family. 
         You talked about how you like to sit with kids and play with them, on their level.  I assume you did this with the 9 year old niece, probably most of the times you were there.  So you formed a genuine attachment to her.  FIL may never have realized how much you felt. But he knows you spent time, more than most adults do with other people's children.
         Hubby probably has always taken it as a sign of what a good mothering sense you have, for any child, maybe yours some day, and any nieces and nephews.  A good thing.  I bet over time, that is what MIL and FIL have thought too.  You said they have not said anything bad before.

          This time, you get a lecture on how you need to grow up before having children.  Well, obviously that has never been his opinion before.  So why did he make the most negative interpretation of every blessed thing about you, all of a sudden?
         Every post I clearly said, what FIL said, and did, was wrong.  It was unfair.  It was ROTTEN.   Every nice thing you did, he twisted to make you look bad.
    You cried off and on for days  (because you cared for niece) - he said, attention seeker.  You always took time for and played with the children -  he said, well you are a childish person not ready for kids.  On and on.  Criticism after criticism. Lots of big exaggerations of tiny things he may have thought, like you sure had an expensive SUV  for kids your age,  son sure spoils his wife ( DH loves you, also probably drives it some himself.)  Never a big deal for him or MIL before,   why now.
        Everyone understands, crying out of grief.  Harder, is understanding why people, particularly men, turn with great anger , often cold and focused, on someone there to be comforting.
      This is what I tried to say.  All the nasty interpretations of every thing nice about you-  he'd have found fault with someone, if not you.
       FIL has this need to feel, he never failed his granddaughter, he loved her.  Family loved her.  No one could have loved her like them.  And mourners who act like they cared too?  Well they are all wrong,  no one cared as much as we do, as much as I do,  and no one hurts as bad.  That's his grief talking.

         Angel, if you look back, this is what I said.  not that you were at fault.
         You also did exactly what people who have been with many grieving families say is the right thing.   You listened.  You did not say f-you.  You did not pick a fight over every twisted and irrational thing he said.  You walked away, vented your hurt to DH and later here, and you went on with the mourning  and a week at home.  No attempt to fight the unjust things he said.  You were shocked, but also realized, the thing to do is finish the services and rituals, not anything else matters.
         That takes a lot of compassion - that however angry you felt, justifiably, you did not strike back at a hurting man.  I have nothing but praise for someone who can do that, Angel.  It is hard to bite your tongue, and go on, and vent elsewhere.

         As a nurse and PT I have seen grieving people turn on others, irrationally, often. Stroke patients and soldiers who have lost buddies in combat, and lost their own legs or eyesight,  mourn the dead and also their own lives that will always be different.  Anger is part of it.  Sometimes getting mad enough pushes them to show the world, I will come back, I will fight.  These are the people who go on, never forgetting, but not depressed all of their life.  I had some good teachers and supervisors who train Army Nurse and Medical Corps staff in coping with grieving people.

        But also, I have been there myself. At 20 I married, in 4 months my husband was dead.  I raged at the friends he was with, as though if he had not been with them, he would still be with me.  Fact is,  he so wanted to be on this Virgin Wilderness rafting trip with a few great friends, and his ruptured appendix was not their fault.  They were heroic getting him out.  But I needed to think,  If Only  he had been with me,  not them,  it would not have happened.  When I later apologized, they said, we have broad shoulders, you needed to blame someone.  Kindness itself.
         When I lost our unborn child just 5 months along, I was angry at myself-  I could not even take care of our baby, the only part left of my husband and me together.  I told my parents- if you had your way, I would never have gotten married, never had this baby.  You must be happy now!  Of course, not true.  My MIL and Mom wanted us to chuck our plans for a small quiet wedding, and give us money they could hardly spare, to show the world how happy and proud they were.  Fact is, over 30 people in my residence had strep infections, and our child suffered a heart infection and died in utero.  Nobody's fault.

         Angel , if you felt hurt reading my posts, go back and read them again.  You will see, I said, every time,  FIL was wrong all down the line.  What you did in listening to him vent his anger, then walking away,   mending fences later,  was the best thing to do.
          I commend you for now letting DH mediate so it is clear: he wants things to come round to family getting along,  and both loves and feels protective of you, and cares enough to listen to and work things out with his Dad.  Whom he also loves.  Because you are all, family.
        I never mean to upset you, though some people who half-read my posts said I did.  It is right there, in black and white.  What he did was not right in any way.  I just hoped you could let the injustice go , give him a pass for a while.  Be a comforting, compassionate person to a grieving man.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Scorpio75. Show Scorpio75's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Angel-  thanks for your follow up and I am happy that you and your DH are there for each other an supporting each other.

    As for whatawag-  she likes to go on tangents and write dissertations that often take things from one level to the other.  Her writing style is very difficult to follow as well and she feels she is the queen bee about all things so it is very easy to not recognize when she has moved on from a personal response to a generalization, take her with a grain of salt.

    And for the record I also thought that much of the discussion about expressing grief was thinly veiled references to you.  I tend to accept most posts such as yours as face value and not try to read into it as many other posters apparently did.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from downtoearth. Show downtoearth's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Waggy - incredible story!  Glad to know you're well these days!!!

    Scorpio - wow - what a hurtful thing to say.  Did you even read Waggy's post at all???? 

    P.S. - I'm starting to remember why I left these boards. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Scorpio75. Show Scorpio75's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]Waggy - incredible story!  Glad to know you're well these days!!! Scorpio - wow - what a hurtful thing to say.  Did you even read Waggy's post at all????  P.S. - I'm starting to remember why I left these boards. 
    Posted by downtoearth[/QUOTE]
    I had stayed away as well I came back as they started to improve things and was happy to see that for the most part people stayed with what a post was about.  This one oh lord so many people too it as play time to wage their own campaigns about how to grieve, what the other person's perspective was etc.

    oh yes I read her missives several times to try to understand her style.  She just cannot seem to stay on task and is here there and everywhere.  Hurtful is apparently open to interpretation, I felt she was very hurtful to Angel and apparently Angel felt the same way.  I don't think I was hurtful but apparently you did. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from cosmogirl. Show cosmogirl's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Scorpio, after what waggie just revealed in this post, I would say that she is entitled to be a queen bee when it comes to a discussion about grief.  I cannot believe you felt it necessary to make such a cold, mean comment.

    You ought to get down on your knees and pray that you never go through what happened to her.  And then apologize.  Don't be a mean girl - it's beneath you. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Scorpio75. Show Scorpio75's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]Scorpio, after what waggie just revealed in this post, I would say that she is entitled to be a queen bee when it comes to a discussion about grief.  I cannot believe you felt it necessary to make such a cold, mean comment. You ought to get down on your knees and pray that you never go through what happened to her.  And then apologize.  Don't be a mean girl - it's beneath you. 
    Posted by cosmogirl[/QUOTE]
    No being mean would have been if I said her life sounded so unreal and like a soap opera.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from cosmogirl. Show cosmogirl's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : No being mean would have been if I said her life sounded so unreal and like a soap opera.
    Posted by Scorpio75[/QUOTE]

    shocked, sad, disappointed, disgusted
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from downtoearth. Show downtoearth's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I think that's the meanest thing I've ever seen on these boards.

    I didn't copy it - you have a chance to remove it before anyone else sees it.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Scorpio's comment was directed at Angel about taking any posts from whata that she felt might have been hurtful with a grain of salt. whata's posts are long and difficult to read and easy to misunderstand. that's all scorpio said in the first comment about it and I agree.

    I will go one step further and say that all posts on message boards should be taken with a grain of salt.

    I am in no way belittling whata's losses and grief. They are terrible and tragic and I'm very sorry she's had that much grief in her life and I hope that she's doing what's right for herself and finding some comfort.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from cosmogirl. Show cosmogirl's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    It was the unreal/soap opera comment that was 100% uncalled for.   Made me sick.  I'm done.   
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    It was the "you ought to be down on your knees" comment that probably set her off.
    But arguing about why or from where a mean and uncalled for attack comes from is fruitless. people just should make not them and calling them out on it is needed.
    oh wait... this is all sounding very familiar...

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]It was the unreal/soap opera comment that was 100% uncalled for.   Made me sick.  I'm done.   
    Posted by cosmogirl[/QUOTE]
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ash. Show ash's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I guess the bottom line here is...if you are going to come on here and ask if you can say something to someone about something you don't like, the answer is probably...No!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from helphelpImbeingrepressed. Show helphelpImbeingrepressed's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    The important issue here is this:

    IT'S NOT HER FIL'S PLACE TO ENUMERATE HER FAULTS AND SCOLD HER FOR THEM.

    She does not need to defend herself, at all. Even if she were wailing and carrying on and dressed like Lady Gaga, screaming for attention at the funeral, her FIL was still wrong to lecture her. He owes her an unqualified apology.

    Listen to me. I derive no greater joy in this life than to point out the faults of others, and yet, I know her FIL was out of line.

    What is wrong with you people?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ambergirl. Show ambergirl's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Cosmo,

    Having lost more than my share of family, young and old, I must say I found the people that were never there for the person who passes, were the ones who cried and carried on the longest.  He who cried the loudest is often the guiltiest. 
    I can relate to your mother's funeral completely as my sister made a big deal out of crying and telling people how I took care of my mother (she lived with me and my family) and she wished she did more. So everyone was comforting her and telling her how much my mother did love her.  Huh???  Where were you when she was dying in my home for 3 years and where were you when funeral arrangements had to be made????  Believe it or not, had to go through the same cr-p again when my brother died.  I have no relationship with her now, just cordial.  Unless you have experienced the drama queens who do this due to their own guilt, you will never understand.  Yes, people actually do this

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]Wondering how well Angel actually knew the niece, how much time did they spend with her, the niece's parents, etc.  Was never mentioned. Wondering why they had to stay at the friends of the parents instead of in a hotel. Wondering why she spent more time describing how much she hates smoking than she did about her relationship with the niece.  Or about the bugs and ants. I tend to think that ash is exactly right, that she was making an inappropriate amount of fuss all over the place and upsetting other members of the family.  That is borne out by the fact that a 16 yo came over to "see if she was all right". I agree that people grieve in all different ways but if the purpose of staying there for 5 days was to help and support each other, I wonder how much help and support she provided instead of received.    Angel might want to ask her DH if he thought the way she behaved at the funeral was inappropriate, and if her behavior was what pushed her FIL over the edge.   I"m not saying FIL was right to do what he did...he wasn't.  I kind of bet that hubby even knew ahead of time, too.  (At my mom's funeral, the biggest cryer and sobber was my sister who visited my  mom for exactly 1/2 hour in the last 18 months of her life, despite my repeated begging.  So I don't need anyone telling me that people have the right to grieve/behave any way they choose at a funeral.  They need to behave in a way that is appropriate to the circumstances and not make a mockery of it by making it all about themselves.  Just saying.)   
    Posted by cosmogirl[/QUOTE]
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Angel525. Show Angel525's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]The important issue here is this: IT'S NOT HER FIL'S PLACE TO ENUMERATE HER FAULTS AND SCOLD HER FOR THEM. She does not need to defend herself, at all. Even if she were wailing and carrying on and dressed like Lady Gaga, screaming for attention at the funeral, her FIL was still wrong to lecture her. He owes her an unqualified apology. Listen to me. I derive no greater joy in this life than to point out the faults of others, and yet, I know her FIL was out of line. What is wrong with you people?
    Posted by helphelpImbeingrepressed[/QUOTE]

    Although my FIL and I talked, I am still feeling huge anger/resentment towards him. I have been thinking about it off/on the past few days and broke down last night.  As much as I want to let it go, part of what he said is still consuming me. There are a few things FIL said that I can't get off my mind and don't know if I ever will. I know he is my FIL but if my parents ever found out what had been said to me I think my mom would be crushed and my dad would be livid (and that is being nice). Part of me wants to tell them but the other half is saying spare them the agony of their daughter being insulted. Input anyone?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Scorpio75. Show Scorpio75's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this? : Although my FIL and I talked, I am still feeling huge anger/resentment towards him. I have been thinking about it off/on the past few days and broke down last night.  As much as I want to let it go, part of what he said is still consuming me. There are a few things FIL said that I can't get off my mind and don't know if I ever will. I know he is my FIL but if my parents ever found out what had been said to me I think my mom would be crushed and my dad would be livid (and that is being nice). Part of me wants to tell them but the other half is saying spare them the agony of their daughter being insulted. Input anyone?
    Posted by Angel525[/QUOTE]

    I don't know that in your position I would tell my parents because I know that they would be hurt and upset (an understantment) to hear that and it really would not help me with the situation and it would not allow me to move on.

    Your parents are likely to sense something is not right, and in again if I were in your position I would keep it very vague and if asked directly just say that some things were said that you didn't appreciate and you and your husband are working through a rough spot with his parents. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from trex509. Show trex509's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    You have every right to tell your parents if you want to, however, I will warn you that if you do, you will probably start a rift between your families that may not be able to be repaired.  The wounds are still fresh.  You may want to wait and see how things resolve themselves before telling your parents.  Time may heal this wound for you, but to your parents, you are their child and they will never forgive your FIL for what he said to you.  You may forgive him (in time) in order to make peace in your family and for your DH, however, your parents do not have this motivation.

     

    Can I ask why you want to tell your parents?  Are you hoping they will say something to your FIL in your defense?  Or do you just need to confide in someone close?  I suggest a close friend who is not family rather than your parents.  

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    I agree, telling your parents about this just opens a whole different can of worms. If you need to vent about it, do so to a friend or vent your heart out on here, you don't want your parents' feelings being hurt too.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from helphelpImbeingrepressed. Show helphelpImbeingrepressed's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Only tell your parents if you want them to dislike your in-laws for the rest of their lives.

    I would probably tell my mom. Not gonna lie. I'd want a seethe buddy. As much as my husband would empathize, he couldn't seethe with malice towards his own dad and I'd be down for beers and seething.

    I wouldn't tell my dad. He's too old for prison.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sept2010Bride. Show Sept2010Bride's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    Angel, would you ever consider going to a therapist with your DH and his father? I know that may be extreme, but it may help to get through this.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Angel525. Show Angel525's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]Only tell your parents if you want them to dislike your in-laws for the rest of their lives. I would probably tell my mom. Not gonna lie. I'd want a seethe buddy. As much as my husband would empathize, he couldn't seethe with malice towards his own dad and I'd be down for beers and seething. I wouldn't tell my dad. He's too old for prison.
    Posted by helphelpImbeingrepressed[/QUOTE]

    My husband has stood by me from day one saying his dad was wrong and did not agree with what he said. Not sure how he would feel about me telling my  parents or even my younger brother for that matter.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ambergirl. Show ambergirl's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    You are hysterical!!  I love your posts : )



    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]Only tell your parents if you want them to dislike your in-laws for the rest of their lives. I would probably tell my mom. Not gonna lie. I'd want a seethe buddy. As much as my husband would empathize, he couldn't seethe with malice towards his own dad and I'd be down for beers and seething. I wouldn't tell my dad. He's too old for prison.
    Posted by helphelpImbeingrepressed[/QUOTE]
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Angel525. Show Angel525's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    In Response to Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?:
    [QUOTE]Angel, would you ever consider going to a therapist with your DH and his father? I know that may be extreme, but it may help to get through this.
    Posted by Sept2010Bride[/QUOTE]

    My in-laws live out of state (about 3 hrs away) and unfortunately would not travel out here for a therapy session. I have been talking about it in bits and pieces and it has helped. I just don't know if I can ever look at my FIL the same way again. This was not your tyical run of the mill argument that one can easilly get over.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sept2010Bride. Show Sept2010Bride's posts

    Re: OT-How should I/we handle this?

    OMG, I LOVE shi-tzus! Sorry to hijack!
     

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