Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from plasko. Show plasko's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    Personally I think weddings need to be taken apart and rebuilt from the ground up. They are silly events from start to finish, as are all the surrounding fluff that goes with it. 
    Maybe its because I automatically hate anything where people adhere to silly traditions without knowing why, other than "thats the way everyone else does it" (saying that guarantees me to hate it). I do not know why people can't think outside the box. Jack and Jill is at least a "novel" concept, something fresh and new, and lets face its still not too far from a Jewish or Chinese wedding where couples get packages of money as gifts to help them set up their lives. 
    I think an event for the periphery of people (neighbors, relatives you never see, froends-of-friends, work colleagues) might actually be a good thing as it means that you do not then have to invite them to the wedding but make them feel slightly included in the process. Then not lead to the wicked witch feelings of exclusion/hurt that Kar was referring to.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    Traditions are just that, though - it's like asking the entire country start celebrating Christmas in July next year because travel is easier, the kids can play outside, Gram won't slip on the ice getting to the car, etc.  Sure, it makes sense, but it ain't gonna happen.

    Having a shower that includes people just to include them somehow without inviting them to the wedding isn't a terrible idea, per se, although the tradtion has its roots in not hurting feelings, and people (like this couple) can and do things outside of deeply entrenched traditions regarding weddings.  But, bucking tradtions like that does have some negative consequences just like if just one family decides to celebrate Christmas in July - a good portion of that family will be peeved and hurt over it especially if no one else in America decided to change it.  And, if "everyone" had decided to change it, there'd be many unhappy people.

    Traditions that deeply entrenched in a culture cannot simply be erased and rebuilt even if it would behoove everyone who follows.  And, who's to say it would behoove everyone to follow - there would always be inherent problems with the new system, anway.  Eventually, we'd wind up with the rules we have today - they arose this way for a reason based in human nature which hasn't changed over the decades.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from cosmogirl. Show cosmogirl's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    There are two different kinds of "Jack and Jills" -- one is a typical wedding shower, with gifts, to which both men and women are invited.

    The other is the cash-centric/fundraiser Jack and Jill which is typically more of a party than a shower.  They're generally held at a VFW-type hall with a DJ and cash bar.  Guests buy a ticket or pay at the door to attend, typically about $20.  Sometimes the B+G "make money" on them, other times, they just cover the cost of the party.  Although I've never been to one, I do know that they're very common in some places.

    Like everyone else, I intensely dislike the idea of asking guests to pay for anything, but that's how these J+Js are.  If the couple is having a small wedding, it's a way for them to party with all their friends.

    If it sounds like a fun night out, then feel free to attend.  If the idea offends you, then don't attend.  Bring a gift if you want to, but don't feel you have to.  It's all in the attitude.  Good luck. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhirledPeasPlease. Show WhirledPeasPlease's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    I'm going to go ahead and "like" Kar's post. This facebook button has permeated my life.

    Also, jack & jill's aren't new and novel. I went to my first about 15 years ago, and they existed before that. TRADITION!!! Oh, how much we can learn from "Fiddler on the Roof."
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from poppy609. Show poppy609's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    In Response to Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding:
    [QUOTE]Personally I think weddings need to be taken apart and rebuilt from the ground up. They are silly events from start to finish, as are all the surrounding fluff that goes with it.  Maybe its because I automatically hate anything where people adhere to silly traditions without knowing why, other than "thats the way everyone else does it" (saying that guarantees me to hate it). I do not know why people can't think outside the box. Jack and Jill is at least a "novel" concept, something fresh and new, and lets face its still not too far from a Jewish or Chinese wedding where couples get packages of money as gifts to help them set up their lives.  I think an event for the periphery of people (neighbors, relatives you never see, froends-of-friends, work colleagues) might actually be a good thing as it means that you do not then have to invite them to the wedding but make them feel slightly included in the process. Then not lead to the wicked witch feelings of exclusion/hurt that Kar was referring to.
    Posted by plasko[/QUOTE]

    Plasko - do you not think it's odd that all of the guests of this particular party are asked to pay $20 if they want to come?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ajuly09. Show ajuly09's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    I think something else needs to be considered here too when the OP states that she was invited through FB.  I have been invited to numerous events through a FB invite that I would NEVER attend, FB is not just for close friends and I get invites from people I hardly ever talk to.  In fact, I just got invited to a baby shower for a friend from HS who I have not talked to in 12 years. I didn't even respond to this invite.  Could this B&G be sending out this invite to EVERYONE on their friends list? That's what happened to me with this baby shower.
    In any event, I don't think I would go unless a big group of people you know were going for fun and you want a night out. I would not bring a gift, and would not feel bad if everyone else brought one.  Your presence would be enough.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from plasko. Show plasko's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    In Response to Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding : Plasko - do you not think it's odd that all of the guests of this particular party are asked to pay $20 if they want to come?
    Posted by poppy609[/QUOTE]

    Um, not in the slightest. A party is a party. Just like if you were having a BBQ and asked guests to bring their own booze, there is a cost associated to them with that too. It's not a world of freebies that we live in. For all you know the J+J has a free bar (or say first 2 drinks are free) and the money will help pay a contribution to the bar costs. The point is that you do NOT know what will be going on, and being snarky behind the organizers backs seems pretty mean when they are trying to do a good deed. Hence my constant referral to the wicked witch who felt offended. 
    I think it must be absolute hell to organise a wedding when so many peoples noses are put out of joint just by not being invited! Its absolute madness. Although I imagine that 99% of those people who are peeved at not being invited are women.
    I hope you guys bi+ch as much about churches charging money to hold weddings as to me thats 10,000x as bad as a a J+J. Especially as church leaders are supposed to be encouraging marital bliss and family values (and yet lining their pockets at the same time by the looks of things). Now that just reeks of hypocrisy and slime.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Shortylicious. Show Shortylicious's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    Where I come from (a small community) we do not expect our guests to pay to attend our parties or provide their own booze. If someone wants to bring a bottle of wine or a dessert, it's graciously accepted. However, I never expect it and when guests ask what they can bring, I always respond "your appetite". I've never considered that as providing 'freebies' but the definition of being a host.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from poppy609. Show poppy609's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    In Response to Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding:
    [QUOTE]I think something else needs to be considered here too when the OP states that she was invited through FB.  I have been invited to numerous events through a FB invite that I would NEVER attend, FB is not just for close friends and I get invites from people I hardly ever talk to.  In fact, I just got invited to a baby shower for a friend from HS who I have not talked to in 12 years. I didn't even respond to this invite.  Could this B&G be sending out this invite to EVERYONE on their friends list? That's what happened to me with this baby shower. In any event, I don't think I would go unless a big group of people you know were going for fun and you want a night out. I would not bring a gift, and would not feel bad if everyone else brought one.  Your presence would be enough.
    Posted by ajuly09[/QUOTE]

    I never even notice event invites on my facebook page - i'm just not on often enough.  I don't think anyone should assume that facebook invites actually reach their target in a timely manner.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mezzogal1124. Show mezzogal1124's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    plasko, I'm not intending to be rude by asking this, but are you by any chance from a country other than the US?  If so, that might explain some of the differences in opinion and expectations you're encountering regarding hosting etiquette.  I dated a guy from Ireland a while ago, for example, who was absolutely appalled at the idea of an open bar at weddings; it's apparently just not done there (maybe 1-2 drinks are paid for by the hosts), while here it's de rigeur for formal events.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from teacherinmass. Show teacherinmass's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    Thanks for the tips and advice.
    Again, Jack and Jills are common where I grew up, so I wasn't surprised that this party existed, just that I was invited and I appreciate people addressing that in their posts. I also really did want to know if people bring gifts, so I appreciate those who addressed that as well. Still not sure if I will attend... debating if I think it will be fun or not.

      Plasko, not sure if this "For all you know the J+J has a free bar (or say first 2 drinks are free) and the money will help pay a contribution to the bar costs. The point is that you do NOT know what will be going on, and being snarky behind the organizers backs seems pretty mean when they are trying to do a good deed. Hence my constant referral to the wicked witch who felt offended."
     is directed at me, but I figured I would respond.

    The Jack and Jill has a cash bar (mentioned in the facebook invite) and typically, where I grew up, they are known as fundraisers for the wedding, so I expect that this one is no different.
    No snark from me- just trying to figure out if my invite was the norm for these parties and if I needed a gift if I decided to attend. I agree- they want to celebrate their engagement and wedding, so no need to be negative about their intentions.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    WPP, thanks.  :)

    Plasko, I totally see where you are coming from, I really do.  And, my nose couldn't care less what people do.  Friends are friends.  If I really cared about them I'd happily go, pay the $20 and bring a gift and get that they can't afford to have everyone at the wedding, too.  Life's too short to punish friends for a faux pas.  If we weren't that close and I didn't want to spend the $$ on people who said I made the initial cut but not the final one I'd not go.

    But, the fact is, as things stand "out there" it's a faux pas.  If you think faux pas (what's the plural of a French saying?) shouldn't exist ever, that's another story.  Etiquette exists whether you think it should or not, and it's not going anywhere.

    OP, definitely go with joy and bring a gift if your heart tells you to and just the cover charge if you don't want to (or can't afford) to give more. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from venforknot. Show venforknot's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    In Response to Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding:
    [QUOTE] Jack and Jill is at least a "novel" concept, something fresh and new, and lets face its still not too far from a Jewish or Chinese wedding where couples get packages of money as gifts to help them set up their lives. 
    Posted by plasko[/QUOTE]

    Envelopes full of cash are traditionally given at Italian weddings too but they come from guests who were invited to the actual wedding.You don't get an envelope if you don't invite the people to the ceremony and reception. I think that's the main difference here. I think the idea of it being odd to many of us is because the wedding is considered the main event in this area and if you're not invited to the main event you generally don't expect anyone to give you anything. It's just a different approach. I personally don't like the approach of throwing a party and asking people to pitch in for anything unless you're 17 years old and you risked getting caught with your sister's ID buying the keg.I can see how in smaller towns this might be something more acceptable socially though, but it still seems strange to ask people to pay to come celebrate you and your fiancee, whether the money goes to them or to the bar or the DJ. It reminds me of when people plan their own birthday parties and call up the guests and say "hey I'm renting a limo, you owe me $x for the night." Just doesn't sit right.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from plasko. Show plasko's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    In Response to Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding:
    [QUOTE]plasko, I'm not intending to be rude by asking this, but are you by any chance from a country other than the US?  If so, that might explain some of the differences in opinion and expectations you're encountering regarding hosting etiquette.  I dated a guy from Ireland a while ago, for example, who was absolutely appalled at the idea of an open bar at weddings; it's apparently just not done there (maybe 1-2 drinks are paid for by the hosts), while here it's de rigeur for formal events.
    Posted by mezzogal1124[/QUOTE]

    Rude, isn't that a HUGE complement? LOL. Yes indeedy I am not from here, and very thankful. Thats why I have a lovely outsiders view of all the strange rituals you have over here. 
    I can understand the Irish dude though, when you compare how much people drink over there to here you would need a couple of big mortgages to pay for the bar. 
    :)

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from plasko. Show plasko's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    In Response to Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding:
    [QUOTE]WPP, thanks.  :) Plasko, I totally see where you are coming from, I really do.  And, my nose couldn't care less what people do.  Friends are friends.  If I really cared about them I'd happily go, pay the $20 and bring a gift and get that they can't afford to have everyone at the wedding, too.  Life's too short to punish friends for a faux pas.  If we weren't that close and I didn't want to spend the $$ on people who said I made the initial cut but not the final one I'd not go. But, the fact is, as things stand "out there" it's a faux pas.  If you think faux pas (what's the plural of a French saying?) shouldn't exist ever, that's another story.  Etiquette exists whether you think it should or not, and it's not going anywhere. OP, definitely go with joy and bring a gift if your heart tells you to and just the cover charge if you don't want to (or can't afford) to give more. 
    Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]

    Ah but when does it stop? Its rude to use a fork in the right hand. Rude to eat soup with the spoon coming in the way instead of out of the way. Rude not to open doors, including car doors, and pull back chairs for ladies (and also sexist, but thats beside the point). Rude to leave the toilet seat up (but apparently the lid is OK bizarrely). Rude to do so many wierd little things that we would end up being aghast at everyone for almost everything! The reason I like the USA is that people really don't adhere to stiflingly silly rules and regulations like this. Yet, apparently they still do, and its not as free as I thought. 
    However, since you are so enamoured with them I should point out the actual book of rules, first published in Victorian times:
    It also has many recipes so you might really enjoy it! 

    Socio-anthropolically speaking, polite rules and regulations are a way for groups of people to look down on other groups of people, and form little cliquey clubs. For example I am reminded of the invitation of a normal person to high-society dinner who does not not know in what order to use the various sets of cutlery, sugar-tongs, heated hand-towels etc. How the rich-folks laughed and felt superior. THAT is the hidden reason for polite rules and regulations. Thats what I have been getting at. Your "faux-pas" are just a way to make yourself feel smug cause you know the secret code and someone else does not. Yet its a code that actually is invented and means nothing. 
    To me its all a silly charade of pettyness and pretentiousness. 
    Hope that helps to explain my "angle". I feel these rules and traditions to be shackles around our hands and feet. 


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2ada63d622e89774a9fdcbc90527ab8e. Show 2ada63d622e89774a9fdcbc90527ab8e's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    Plasko said: Yes indeedy I am not from here, and very thankful.
    _________

    What?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from plasko. Show plasko's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    You did not read the comment I was responding to, hence your confusion. Let me quote:
    "plasko, I'm not intending to be rude by asking this, but are you by any chance from a country other than the US? "
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhirledPeasPlease. Show WhirledPeasPlease's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    Plasko, I think Green Mountain's "what" refers to the "and very thankful" part of your post.

    Are you from Europe? Europeans eat with the fork in the left hand, right? (Americans generally use the right hand, unless you're left-handed and may risk poking yourself in the eye).

    I think you're extrapolating too far with you're vent on faux pas (or whatever the plural is) and etiquette. Etiquette is about making people comfortable; it seems that if we threw out all of the "rules" like you suggest, there'd be a social anarchy along the lines of: forget giving this pregnant woman my seat on the bus! I'll punch her instead because there are no social mores against it!

    Anyway, I think you're arguing against human nature. Humans tend toward structure because it aligns themselves in the world; that's also why we create labels for our relationships like spouse, friend, sibling, etc. It categorizes your world and is more navigable when you know what you're dealing with. "The person I'm talking to is my mother, and therefore there's a certain tonality I use when speaking to her."

    It's like how in the Korean language there are multiple forms of address depending on the person you're talking to. The formality depends on if you're talking to a boss or a sister and you would never use the same form of address for those two people.

    Wow, this thread is one giant non sequitur now.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from teacherinmass. Show teacherinmass's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    Who knew that a Jack and Jill party could stir up so much emotion?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from plasko. Show plasko's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding


    Oh its all in the name of fun and witty banter, I hope! Sorry teach, was not supposed to go down this track, it was all with the initial talk of taking offense at someone's innocent invitation, is all. I always try and rush in to defend the helpless and innocent, its a fault of mine. And when I saw people were trying to sway you to be insulted at such an innocent thing, I needed to provide the counterbalance and voice of reason. (Although I do laugh at something else because the term FB to me I took to mean fu<k-buddy, not Facebook. LOL). 

    And WPP, you are right. When there are rules I understand the basis behind I certainly am a fan of them. Your example is medically sound to give up your seat to a pregnant lady, or old person. In fact I often do this on the T (well for older people, I rarely encounter heavily-pregnant women!). However, the rules I was quoting were meaningfully to push the envelope into silliness, and show that many rules become outdated and absurd with time. Ofcourse, they were always absurd, just that peoples views of them changed! Glad I don't have to wear a top-hat and tails. Mind you I'd love a cloak, that'd be cool!
    But I try not to do things for the sake of it, without knowing why I am doing it. I do not wish to be a sheep. Or at least an un-knowing sheep. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    Plasko and I are buds (I think/hope!) so I see this as friendly banter with no ill will!  

    I think social etiquette innocently arose out of a sincere attempt to prevent hurt feelings and to make guests feel special.  What happened with the snooty-nosed "high society" folk after that, snubbing their noses at those who "dont' know the rules," as you've described, is sad.   I'm not one of those people - I love my friends pre- and post-faux pas. :)  But, since this is the etiquette section, I answer OP's questions with etiquette-based answers.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from plasko. Show plasko's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    Since I did not realise that the invite was digital, it actually a Net-equette question. Thats a whole bunch of new cyber-world rules (eg not writing in block caps which is taken as shouting, etc), and you would have to ask a 15yr old for Net-equette advice on this topic to get the real answer.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mezzogal1124. Show mezzogal1124's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    In Response to Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding:
    [QUOTE]You did not read the comment I was responding to, hence your confusion. Let me quote: " plasko, I'm not intending to be rude by asking this, but are you by any chance from a country other than the US? "
    Posted by plasko[/QUOTE]
    Heh, I didn't qualify my question because I think it's somehow a bad thing to be from a place other than the US, I qualified it because I didn't want anyone to think I was implying that only a "foreigner" could have such views...I didn't want it to come across as "Dude, you have got to be from another PLANET to think like you do!!!" :-)
    In any case, I think if someone defines etiquette in doors opened, correct forks used, etc. they are missing the point.  Etiquette is about being GRACIOUS. To me, gracious does not equal asking guests for cash unless, of course, one is hosting a fundraiser for a charity organization or school or something.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie27. Show pinkkittie27's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    etiquette varies with location and culture.
    J&J's are just as traditional in some areas as the "typical" brodal shower is in others.

    As others have said, it could be that the cover is to cover the cost of the party so that the B&G can celebrate, informally, with as many of their family and friends as possible. Or, they could be putting the money towards the wedding, or towards something else like a down payment house. If it's popular in the area they live, they might just be doing it because they're going through the motions.
    Because you know them personally, you probably have a better idea of what their motives are than any of us do.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from teacherinmass. Show teacherinmass's posts

    Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding

    In Response to Re: Jack and Jill? But not invited to the wedding:
    [QUOTE]etiquette varies with location and culture. J&J's are just as traditional in some areas as the "typical" brodal shower is in others. As others have said, it could be that the cover is to cover the cost of the party so that the B&G can celebrate, informally, with as many of their family and friends as possible. Or, they could be putting the money towards the wedding, or towards something else like a down payment house. If it's popular in the area they live, they might just be doing it because they're going through the motions. Because you know them personally, you probably have a better idea of what their motives are than any of us do.
    Posted by pinkkittie27[/QUOTE]

    The money is going towards the wedding, according to the bridesmaid who called me to ask if I was going to buy a ticket. It is a common event where I live, so I'm sure some of it is them going through the motions. They're nice people and I may end up attending as I would like to congratulate them on their wedding and celebrate with them and my friends, despite any ettiquette faux pas. I know now that I don't have to bring a gift, which is helpful.
     

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