Miss Conduct

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from helphelpImbeingrepressed. Show helphelpImbeingrepressed's posts

    Miss Conduct

    Anyone here agree with me that she's been giving terrible answers lately?

    Ever since her absolutely AWFUL answer to the "I have a disabled friend but my venue is inaccessible" question (hint: the answer shouldn't have been "skip inviting the cripple and take him out to dinner instead as a consolation prize") I feel one answer per week is just flat out wrong. Seeing as how she's down to two questions a week, things ain't looking so hot.

    Her answer this week to the "donate to charity as my birthday gift" question was also stupid. I'm sorry you don't want more "stuff," but you're 60. You don't expect gifts and you don't tell people what to buy you after you're out of grade school. Grow up.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie18. Show pinkkittie18's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    I think her answers are usually good, but no one gets it right every time.
    In this case the damage was done. The invitation had already been printed and sent, he was just trying to prove his wife wrong. Which I don't think is a very nice thing to do.

    I know when I get an invitation to a birthday party, I feel like I should bring something. I think if she really didn't want more stuff, he just should have written "No Gifts" and saved himself the trouble. But, he didn't consult his wife, which MC did point out was a gross oversight. I can see why his wife was embarassed, as that kind of thing really doesn't belong on an invitation in the first place.

    This was a bad question to begin with. I don't think advice columnists should answer questions that say "I already did x, someone told me I should have done y, who's right?"
    Because at this point, why does it matter who's right? If you offended someone or breached etiquette, it's water under the bridge. You can't take it back. Unless you've got money riding on it, let it go.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucy7368. Show lucy7368's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    Please tell me that she didn't really tell someone that you shouldn't invite crippled people to your wedding, but take them out to dinner instead.  If you have a crippled friend who you really want to attend your wedding, isn't that in your mind somewhere while choosing a venue?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from misslily. Show misslily's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    I'm with Helphelp on this one.  Miss Conduct's answer was lame - and I said so in the comments field. But I usually find her answers to be wishywashy and vague.

    I once emailed her directly questioning her response that a thank you note was unnecessary after a dinner party.  She said that people find them onerous so saying a call or email was sufficient might urge more people to do SOMETHING rather than nothing. Couldn't she have at least said, "A note is the best way to show your thanks, but for many - especially close friends, a call or email will suffice."
    I know people are lazy, but there's no reason for the Etiquette Lady to encourage them to get lazier.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie18. Show pinkkittie18's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    Unfortunately, yes she did. The bride had already booked the venue and it was not accessible, stairs only. I was disappointed MC didn't at least suggest asking the guest to see if they felt they could manage. I too was surprised the bride hadn't considered accessibility when looking at venues.

    You should have read HelpHelp's comment on that one. It was a gem!

    [QUOTE]Please tell me that she didn't really tell someone that you shouldn't invite crippled people to your wedding, but take them out to dinner instead.  If you have a crippled friend who you really want to attend your wedding, isn't that in your mind somewhere while choosing a venue?
    Posted by lucy7368[/QUOTE]
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie18. Show pinkkittie18's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    I think she tries very hard to be the anti-Prudie. While I think it's good that she avoids snark and sarcasm in dispensing advice, I think sometimes she doesn't want to say "that was wrong." Which is a tricky position to put yourself in when writing about etiquette. Sometimes people are going to be rude, even if they don't mean to be, and if they write in seeking advice she should correct them.

    [QUOTE]I'm with Helphelp on this one.  Miss Conduct's answer was lame - and I said so in the comments field. But I usually find her answers to be wishywashy and vague. I once emailed her directly questioning her response that a thank you note was unnecessary after a dinner party.  She said that people find them onerous so saying a call or email was sufficient might urge more people to do SOMETHING rather than nothing. Couldn't she have at least said, "A note is the best way to show your thanks, but for many - especially close friends, a call or email will suffice." I know people are lazy, but there's no reason for the Etiquette Lady to encourage them to get lazier.
    Posted by misslily[/QUOTE]
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucy7368. Show lucy7368's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    [QUOTE]Unfortunately, yes she did. The bride had already booked the venue and it was not accessible, stairs only. I was disappointed MC didn't at least suggest asking the guest to see if they felt they could manage. I too was surprised the bride hadn't considered accessibility when looking at venues. You should have read HelpHelp's comment on that one. It was a gem!
    Posted by pinkkittie18[/QUOTE]

    I really wish I could see that column.  If I somehow managed to book a venue that was not wheelchair accessible, despite having an important guest who was in a wheelchair, I would find a way to make it work if it meant carrying the guest up the stairs on my back.

    But, like I said, if the guest were that important, I wouldn't book a venue that wasn't accessible.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from heatherv1211. Show heatherv1211's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    Reception venues should realize that if they are not fully accessibe it's going to be a problem so they are prepared with an answer when asked.  Like The Commons in Topsfiled - their ballroom is on the 2nd floor (no elevator) so they have a relationship with a company (I think it's an ambulance company) that will safely (they are EMTs) assist guests in wheelchairs or who generally have trouble with stairs.  Anywhere that hosts large gatherings (or small ones, for that matter) should have a plan in place.

    I didn't read the MC post, so am just commenting on what I've read here.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from sher. Show sher's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    here's the gem Lucy:

    Miss Conduct

    A Wedding Obstacle

    When friends with disabilities can't come

    By Robin Abrahams
    February 1, 2009


    Text size +
    I'm getting married at a venue that is not wheelchair-accessible. My original guest list included a friend and his partner who will be affected by this, but we ended up choosing this site regardless, for many reasons. How can I keep them from feeling slighted when they don't get invited? I obviously want to avoid inviting them for symbolic reasons and then having to explain that they can't come.

    C.P. / Nashua


    That is a sticky wicket, and I hope your friends choose to be good-natured and forgiving about it. How to react is their choice, though, just as it was your choice to have your wedding at a venue that will exclude them. Call them as soon as possible and let them know how the situation stands. Apologize, but don't fall all over yourself explaining all the reasons why you picked the site you did -- that would sound defensive and as though you expect them to congratulate you on your decision. Ask them if you can take them out for a good dinner somewhere to make up for them having to miss the wedding. After that, it's up to them.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from heatherv1211. Show heatherv1211's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    [QUOTE]Reception venues should realize that if they are not fully accessibe it's going to be a problem so they are prepared with an answer when asked.  Like The Commons in Topsfiled - their ballroom is on the 2nd floor (no elevator) so they have a relationship with a company (I think it's an ambulance company) that will safely (they are EMTs) assist guests in wheelchairs or who generally have trouble with stairs.  Anywhere that hosts large gatherings (or small ones, for that matter) should have a plan in place. I didn't read the MC post, so am just commenting on what I've read here.
    Posted by heatherv1211[/QUOTE]

    After reading the Wedding Channel posts I feel I must apologize for this terribly written end-of-a-long-workday post. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from helphelpImbeingrepressed. Show helphelpImbeingrepressed's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    She obviously doesn't have any disabled friends/family.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    Our venue wasn't wheelchair accessible. The venue was very up front about it.  While the downstairs restaurant was accessible, the upstairs rooms [where the reception was] was not.  The only way  to access them was up a very narrow staircase.  However, we didn't have any disabled relatives so we didn't have a problem with it. If you do have disabled relatives, then clearly you should plan better. Taking them out to dinner as a 'consolation prize' is pretty stinky. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    [QUOTE]Our venue wasn't wheelchair accessible. The venue was very up front about it.  While the downstairs restaurant was accessible, the upstairs rooms [where the reception was] was not.  The only way  to access them was up a very narrow staircase.  However, we didn't have any disabled relatives so we didn't have a problem with it. If you do have disabled relatives, then clearly you should plan better. Taking them out to dinner as a 'consolation prize' is pretty stinky. 
    Posted by ALF72[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely.  We also chose a venue that was not wheelchair accessible, but if my wheelchair bound grandmother had been living and were attending, there would be NO WAY we'd have chosen a place she couldn't navigate.  Poor planning, indeed.

    However, once the decision had been set in stone, what was Miss Manners supposed to have suggested? 
    She wasn't consulted before it was too late...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from helphelpImbeingrepressed. Show helphelpImbeingrepressed's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    Well, speaking as a flag-waving cripple, I would have told her to send an invite to the affected persons if she wanted them to be there. She could have called the site to figure out if there was any sort of contingency plan to accommodate the disabled and enclosed a note with the invite detailing the limitations of the site and whatever options the site could offer as a workaround. Then it's up to the couple to decide if they can attend or not. Otherwise the bride is excluding them solely because they're disabled. You shouldn't make those decisions for someone else. It's patronizing.

    If she didn't want them to be there, which I assume she didn't because she didn't consider accessibilty, she shouldn't invite them. Unless she's treating everyone else she didn't want to invite to an apology and a consolation dinner, she owes them no explanation.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from heatherv1211. Show heatherv1211's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    [QUOTE]However, once the decision had been set in stone, what was Miss Manners supposed to have suggested?  She wasn't consulted before it was too late...
    Posted by kargiver[/QUOTE]

    I would have hoped she would have suggested contacting a company that specializes in assisting people in wheelchairs (or otherwise unable to manouver stairs) into inaccessible buildings.  I'm disappointed she didn't think of it.

    Of course, I've been mad at her ever since about 2006 or so when she said that couples who live together before they are married should not register for things like new towels, sheets, etc. because they obviously already have them. (??)  I wrote her an email disagreeing and got a rather snippy response.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from sher. Show sher's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    wheelchair accessible was at the top of my priority list. my dad is in a wheelchair and prettier venue just wasn't worth his absence!

    what kills me is this line from her letter to Miss conduct: "My original guest list included a friend and his partner who will be affected by this, but we ended up choosing this site regardless..." which i took to mean that this was done intentionally, with forethought. i don't cae how many reasons they came up with to choose the venue over the "friend", the fact they thought about it at all means the vision for "THEIR DAY" overruled the guest list.

    Great way to treat someone who under different circumstances (ie: the ability to WALK) would have gotten an invite.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from helphelpImbeingrepressed. Show helphelpImbeingrepressed's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    She's no friend of mine. Shoot, my friends argue over who gets to help me up or cut my steak for me.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from framerican51008. Show framerican51008's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    I also thought her response to the accessibility issue was AWFUL.  In my opinion, you ALWAYS give people the option of attending.  Don't make decisions for them.  My girlfriend is 6 months pregnant, but was still invited to the bachelorette party so she wouldn't feel left out.  She didn't come, but at least she knows I didn't forget about her.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from helphelpImbeingrepressed. Show helphelpImbeingrepressed's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    It was actually offensive. I think I'm still stewing because she didn't apologize for it.

    She's up there with the people who attend community meetings in old neighborhoods to refuse to rip up brick sidewalks and replace them with something that isn't lethal to the wheeled crowd because brick looks better. I have no time for people who feel that adapting for disability inconveniences them. Think of how inconvenienced the disabled feel every freakin day.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucy7368. Show lucy7368's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    Thanks for the post, Sher.  :)

    As much as I think Miss Conduct's advice was terrible, part of me agrees with Kar.  What was she supposed to say?

    "Dear Self-Involved,

        It is clear that you do not really consider this person a friend, so why would you want them at the wedding?  It sounds like you're only inviting them to get a gift.  Maybe you should take some time and think about what a terrible person you are, instead of trying to placate someone you obviously don't really like and who, quote probably, is better off without you in her life." 


    Actually, I think I would have said that.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from helphelpImbeingrepressed. Show helphelpImbeingrepressed's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    She could have stated that friend had indeed blundered, instead of implying that the friend would be wrong to feel slighted, and suggested ways to atone for said blunder/circumvent the inacessibility factor.

    Okay, now I admit I look a little obsessed, posting every other post, but it made me so MAD!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from framerican51008. Show framerican51008's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    [QUOTE]It was actually offensive. I think I'm still stewing because she didn't apologize for it. She's up there with the people who attend community meetings in old neighborhoods to refuse to rip up brick sidewalks and replace them with something that isn't lethal to the wheeled crowd because brick looks better. I have no time for people who feel that adapting for disability inconveniences them. Think of how inconvenienced the disabled feel every freakin day.
    Posted by helphelpImbeingrepressed[/QUOTE]

    Completely different, but your post reminds me of the hoity toity folks who protest the building of wind turbines down the Cape.  Oh you poor babies - your view will be "ruined" just so we can save the planet.  Get over it.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie18. Show pinkkittie18's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    She did write "It's their choice on how to react, just as it was your choice to pick a venue that excludes them."
    She's putting it out there, but being nice about it. You chose a venue that excludes your friends. It's up them to choose if they'll be offended.
    I know I would be.
    At least she advised them to be honest. I think "My venue isn't accessible" would say it all to her friend, because what it really means is "I chose a venue that's not accessible even though I knew this would exclude you."

    Maybe MC knew there was no saving this one? But the bit about dinner was really awful. I mean, sure we buy our guests dinner for our wedding, but it's not like that's the only reason why everyone shows up!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucy7368. Show lucy7368's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    [QUOTE]Completely different, but your post reminds me of the hoity toity folks who protest the building of wind turbines down the Cape.  Oh you poor babies - your view will be "ruined" just so we can save the planet.  Get over it.
    Posted by framerican51008[/QUOTE]

    I think the windmills are pretty.  :)
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinkkittie18. Show pinkkittie18's posts

    Re: Miss Conduct

    me too, they're hypnotic!

    [QUOTE]I think the windmills are pretty.  :)
    Posted by lucy7368[/QUOTE]
     

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