A Question of Independence

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jim-in-Littleton. Show Jim-in-Littleton's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    In Response to Re: A Question of Independence:
    [QUOTE]Chris thinks it is creepy. Jamie hadn't really noticed any special creepiness, but doesn't want Chris upset. Dana is kind of a control freak, and likes to get power over people.
    [/QUOTE]


    Does Jamie recognize that Dana is trying to exert power over Chris by putting her in the middle?   Just based on your several posts here, it looks like Dana and Chris are in a minor power struggle between themselves as to where Jamie's loyalties lie and it sounds like Jamie is being very passive about this whole thing. 

    It seems to me that Jamie could end this whole drama by putting Dana in his place once or twice (publicly if necessary...).  (IMO, one's loyalties should default to the SO...)
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheRealJBar. Show TheRealJBar's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    I'm confused.  All of the players' names are not gender specific. Who's the guy and who's the gal?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ItDoesntMatterWhatIThink. Show ItDoesntMatterWhatIThink's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    Okay, so the single is aggressively pursuing 1 of the marrieds conquestially...

    And while the object of affection is blissfully irgnoring the situation, the other married is getting upset because he perceives it to be a form of manipulation of the object and downright disrespect to him?

    Is the single crusher a realistic threat? No, both marrieds know that.
    Is the single crusher crossing perceived boundaries? Only to 1 married because he's feeling the single is putting on a show at the expense of the object's reputation...

    Is the object of affection supposed to mediate? Can the object ask the single to lay off in front of the other married? And ask the other married to trust her judgment and observe her a few more times before coming to the crossroads of making a choice?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from diamondgirl. Show diamondgirl's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    That's the point, JBar - we are divorcing it of gender context.

    Jim, that is a point I had not considered at all, and you may well have hit it.  The focus has been on Jamie as the issue so far, but competition between Dana & Chris in multiple areas of their lives may well be the underlying reason here.

    That is why I posted this little disaster here - to get new ideas.

    A little tip off to Jamie, and the public putdown will certainly happen.  Being treated like a pawn is not at the top of anyone's win list.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from diamondgirl. Show diamondgirl's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    Dimmy, you got it in one.  That is exactly what is going on. 

    Though now that Jim has suggested it might not be over Jamie so much as it is over winning things from Chris, this puts a slightly new complexion on it.  If Jamie need not fear hurting any genuine feelings, there is no reason not to dopeslap the crushing person...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ItDoesntMatterWhatIThink. Show ItDoesntMatterWhatIThink's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    Very true. Setting up a position to force Jamie's hand... in the hopes of trumping Chris for a personal ego boost. Shame on Dana.

    Perhaps a simple declaration (I'm a big fan of declarations) that while the crush is supreme flattery, Chris will always win in a battle of affection. Perhaps Jamie even suggests a new object for Dana to admire.

    No surprise, I like to incorporate humor in situations like this. Perhaps bring match weapons and ask for a duel. :-)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from diamondgirl. Show diamondgirl's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    Well, Dana has a 'wants what cannot have' problem. 

    Also, there is a complex web of married and single crushes involved that Jamie and Chris are not involved in, and there is a lot of defensiveness going around.  I think trying to drag Jamie & Chris into it is a way of making the rest of them feel less dirty.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jim-in-Littleton. Show Jim-in-Littleton's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    In Response to Re: A Question of Independence:
    [QUOTE] Jim, that is a point I had not considered at all, and you may well have hit it.  The focus has been on Jamie as the issue so far, but competition between Dana & Chris in multiple areas of their lives may well be the underlying reason here. That is why I posted this little disaster here - to get new ideas. A little tip off to Jamie, and the public putdown will certainly happen.  Being treated like a pawn is not at the top of anyone's win list.
    Posted by diamondgirl[/QUOTE]

    Since I don't know any of these peeps, you are in a much better position to be able to tell if that is what is going on or not. If they are competeing outside of the Jamie aspect then it might be a natural carry-over from something else. It can't hurt to observe and see if it fits.

    The interesting thing here, if it *is* what is going on, is that Dana and Chris may very well be skirmishing over who is in control and in the end it's little passive Jamie that has the powah... :p
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ItDoesntMatterWhatIThink. Show ItDoesntMatterWhatIThink's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    Ugh, the networking web....

    Honestly, if it's something that's tiring you and bothersome for him, I would probably acquiesce - it's not a question of maintaining independence, but keeping harmony and establishing a little distance that could enable clarity.
    As much as I never wanted to listen to anyone else, sometimes they were right.

    As long as it's not a bridge you intend to burn, a breather couldn't hurt. :-)
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wizen. Show wizen's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    In Response to Re: A Question of Independence:
    [QUOTE]That's the point, JBar - we are divorcing it of gender context. Posted by diamondgirl[/QUOTE]

    You sly boots, you.  :)  Good plan. 

    My take is that this is more about Dana and Chris than Jamie.  While Jamie may be lovely, she's being used as a pawn in a power struggle, which is less complimentary than it appears at first glance.  It really has more to do with the single crusher and the s/o than the person in the middle. 

    I'd go for a slap down with a smile.  Affirm to the crusher that they are no threat to a solid marriage, affirm to the spouse the same thing, and the smile lets them back down while saving face.  If that doesn't work, skip the smile the 2nd time. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from diamondgirl. Show diamondgirl's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    Oh, aren't you guys cute?  Dana isn't single.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JinxieJae. Show JinxieJae's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    you should follow your husband's advice - if you looked into your future 5 years from now- is the first picture that pops into your mind that of you sitting around enjoying your husband's company or that of you sitting around with said friend?  I'd want to see me and my husband happy.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from diamondgirl. Show diamondgirl's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    Not that it is me, Jinxie.  But I will let the peeps involved know.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JinxieJae. Show JinxieJae's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    I would not like a person who had a crush on my SO to be around alcohol and causing conflict of any kind - it sounds like the single person has a maturity problem.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from diamondgirl. Show diamondgirl's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    Nobody is single, and everyone involved is pretty much always drinking.

    I would explain, but I am running out of gender neutral names.

    Dana is married to Dylan, who has a crush on CJ, who has a crush on Mattie, who is married to Nat, who has crushes on everyone.  Dana has a crush on Jamie, who is married to Chris, who doesn't have a crush on anyone and thinks the whole thing is lame to an extreme degree. 

    Jamie generally operates under a policy of deliberate obliviousness.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from wizen. Show wizen's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    You forgot to tell us about Leslie and Marion.  :) 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Switters242. Show Switters242's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    I think Jamie is being disrespectful to Chris by allowing this to go on.  The "oblivious" excuse only works until the situation is pointed out.  Regardless of Jaime's lack of interest, Dana is being disrespectful to the relationship between Jamie and Chris and Jamie is disrespecting Chris by not stopping it.  I think Chris has every right to be upset.  Clear boundaries need to be established but I can understand how this is difficult given the "complex web" you described.  I don't really have any great advice on how to make this work but I agree with Chris that it needs to stop (somehow).  "Harmless flirting" with a married/SO is not harmless.  I also like what Jinxie said about looking 5 years into the future.  The SO should clearly come first.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from diamondgirl. Show diamondgirl's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    "I think Jamie is being disrespectful to Chris by allowing this to go on."

    Sample of an actual conversation from the night that spawned this thread;

    Dana; "Want another drink?"
    Jamie; "Oh, no thanks - I am all set.  I'm on water now."
    Dana; "Come on, one more."
    Jamie; "No seriously, I have been drinking since 6p - I am all set.  I'll be sick."
    (Jamie to passing waitress - 'No more for me, tonight, thanks.')
    (Dana goes straight to bar and gets Jamie another drink from the bartender)
    Jamie; "WTH?"

    (Chris seethes with irritation)

    Not entirely sure how disrespectful this is on Jamie's part.  But Dana has control issues. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TwoCentDonation. Show TwoCentDonation's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    Oh dear - this sounds like the makings of a complex psycho drama.  If it were a French psycho drama there would probably be all sorts of obtuse dialog, searing looks, and an ambiguous ending that leaves the viewer wondering what Jamie really wants.  If it were British it would probably have a terse exchange of words between Dana and Chris, and Jamie would either keep loyalty with Chris, and the viewer may or may not know what Jamie really wants, or Jamie would SHOCK!!society by choosing Dana.  If it were American, there'd be a lot of hot sex and someone would get killed.  Or it'd be set in the swinging 70's with lots of hot sex, booze, drugs, and someone getting killed.

    Because us Americans are all about the extreme drama and extreme sex.  Subtle drama goes over our heads, and subtle sex is boring.

    But, anyway...  It might work if someone spoke to Jamie about the whole being a pawn and in the long term does Jamie really want Chris all bent out of shape?  And reinforcement that this whole web of married crushes is uberlame and twisted, and perhaps Jamie and Chris should find some new friends, possibly new friends who prefer Shirley Temples.  But not me and Mr. Cent.  I really don't want to deal with that kind of drama.  And neither does Mr. Cent.  We dislike psychodramatic ick.  Unless it's in a movie...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TwoCentDonation. Show TwoCentDonation's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    Dana sounds like a juice bag past its expiration and with mold spores and slime in it.  Blech.

    Did Jamie drink the drink?  Or did Jamie push it off to the side?

    If I were Jamie I would be REALLY IRRITATED by Dana.  And I would probably unconsciously, but noticeably move closer to Mr. Cent.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from diamondgirl. Show diamondgirl's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    Jamie considered it, being pretty tipsy at the time.  Chris (and everyone else) saw the whole thing unfold.  Chris paid the tab, picked up their coats, and told Jamie it was time to go home.  Jamie acquiesced quietly, leaving the power play pint all by itself.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from wizen. Show wizen's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    Good for Jamie leaving the pint.  Clearly this is a disrespectful type of power attention.  A friend that can't take no for an answer, deserves a slap down.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from wizen. Show wizen's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    I'm thinking something along the lines of "Oh, I couldn't possibly drink another.  If I did, even you might start to look good."  Wink, grin. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TwoCentDonation. Show TwoCentDonation's posts

    Re: A Question of Independence

    Or perhaps a pointed, "Funny, I said I was on water for the rest of the night.  Well, it's a good thing I married a man who listens.  Men who don't listen are sooo passe."

     

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