Page on one poll

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from two-sheds. Show two-sheds's posts

    Page on one poll

    By now we've all seen KJBeals' poll on page one.  In the spirit of that poll, I'm going to post here to keep this off-topic subject out of the comments.  (We'll see how long it takes KJBeals and everyone else to notice this, showing one reason why these forums aren't used that much). 

    Part of me agrees that there is a problem.  I do think that the large amount of banter can make it hard to find advice.  As someone who often doesn't get a chance to post right away, I do feel my advice is buried.  Such is life, though, and I can't expect things to change to meet my whims.  It's also not as bad as KJBeals makes out, since things usually stay on topic for a while if the letter is thought provoking.  If the letter isn't thought provoking then a few pages of advice is all it takes. 

    I don't think there's any practical solution to keeping the main thread on topic.  I like the banter, and I participate in the banter.  I also like a good debate, whether it's about someone's love life or about how to run this blog.  Other people like these things, too, and that's what we are here for.  Conversations just flow, and it's unlikely people are going to start moving their conversations to the forums as they drift off-topic.  So, I think we (and KJBeals) just have to accept the fact that there's going to be off-topic stuff in the comment section.  We've had some guidelines in the past such as keeping things on topic until 1:00 (unless the letter is exceptionally lame).  One thing we could do is take those guidelines more seriously, again?

    I do have another concern which is that despite the fact the number of posts per day keep going up, I think this community is actually getting smaller.  I've noticed a number of people leaving the blog (some silently, some in a huff), and I've seen few new regulars.  Some turn over is expected in this sort of community, but if I do wonder if the tone of this place is no longer welcoming.  First time posters are generally still welcomed (as long as their first post doesn't attack someone or the community), which is good.  However, the general tone around here has gotten meaner and more sarcastic, at least from my perspective.   The increase in sarcasm may just be that we have gotten more comfortable with each other, but still the atmosphere around here is probably very intimidating to a new poster.  I'm not going to tell people how they should post, but if I am right about more people leaving then joining, then, well, you do the math.

    I'm not telling anyone here what is right or wrong, but I do think these topics are worthy of discussion. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harbormistress. Show Harbormistress's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    well put, TS.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kahlanamnell. Show kahlanamnell's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    Twosheds I agree with you. The argument in favor of the off topic conversation has always been that Meredith allows it, so people like KJBeals should just deal with it, but Meredith has also consistenly asked for the off topic stuff to wait until 1 pm, and that almost never happens any more. She's also asked for the personal attacks and meanness to stop but that hasn't happened either. I think it's a little disingenuous to hide behind the argument that "Meredith says it's okay" when one is not willing to actually abide by Meredith's requests on the subject.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from AlyssaJones. Show AlyssaJones's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    In Response to Re: Page on one poll:
    [QUOTE]Thanks, two-sheds -- Just fyi, these threads don't show up in the "widget" to the right of the LL blog until a few people have posted in them. It's not about time, it's about activity. (Also, when threads become dormant, they sink down lower in the widget.) Just doing my part to get your thread higher up.
    Posted by BDCMod1[/QUOTE]


    HI MINOTAUR!!!

    I'll do my part, too.  

    Here's what I posted today on page 24:


    AlyssaJones
     wrote:
    If the LW's really wanted to keep things on topic, they would chime in here
     throughout the day. That way it could be more of a discussion about their
     problem with all of us. 

    But after we've all said our 2cents and debated the key issues in the letter,
     what do people actually think we're going to actually do all day? WORK?? 

    Maybe Meredith should tell the LW's to comment more. We usually have lots
     of questions that arent answered in the letter and most of us genuinely want
     to help.
    2/9/2012 11:58 AM EST
    Recommended (12)
     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from AlyssaJones. Show AlyssaJones's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    Also... I think its even more intimidating to a new poster because as soon as a newbie chimes in, we've all been somewhat trained to think its a sockpuppet for someone else.    I admit that in most cases I assume a new person is a sockpuppet before I think they are genuinely new... especially if they ruffle a few feathers right away.  

    I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt though. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from two-sheds. Show two-sheds's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    In Response to Re: Page on one poll:
    [QUOTE]Thanks, two-sheds -- Just fyi, these threads don't show up in the "widget" to the right of the LL blog until a few people have posted in them. It's not about time, it's about activity. (Also, when threads become dormant, they sink down lower in the widget.) Just doing my part to get your thread higher up.
    Posted by BDCMod1[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for your response.

    As of right now, this forum thread still isn't showing up.  I've also noticed that the last updated listing is generally older than reality, if the thread was recently updated.  I've just posted in the weight loss thread to see how long it takes my post to show up as the most recent one.  I bet right now it's a combination of activity and time, because the code is delaying things by about an hour.

    In any case, I don't know how much control you have over these things (or even if you know who does), but if you want the forums to be used, I recommend changing it shows up immediately when someone makes a posting.  Otherwise it feels like you are posting to a black hole, and people will just post everything in the main comment section.

    updated:  OK, it took 13 minutes for my post to show up on the side.  (I wasn't updating constantly so maybe it was a little shorter).  That isn't as bad as I thought, but considering how fast things move in the main thread, it's still a long time if you want people to switch to using the forums for off-topic discussions.  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonGal109. Show BostonGal109's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    I think the problem is two fold as was stated earlier. First, I like the idea of OT not starting until 1pm. That gives sufficient time to give advice, and a clear point that the LW knows that the rest will be OT and not have to pick through it. Second though, people ARE becoming increasingly mean and nasty, singling posters out, making super inappropriate comments, and having a bit of a contest to see who can cause the biggest sting with the one liner "jokes". 

    But I hope today was eye opening and people will realize that these things do bother people and will try to make it better. I'll definitely do my part.

    Now, for newbies, all I can say as having been one who was attacked quite viciously when I started posting, I can understand the fear anyone would have to be a new poster. Let's just keep in mind that not everyone makes sock puppets and tries to make people mad. I think people forget that if someone is bothering you, you don't HAVE to respond to them. I think that is a much better policy here than starting an all out war.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from two-sheds. Show two-sheds's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    In Response to Re: Page on one poll:
    [QUOTE]Also... I think its even more intimidating to a new poster because as soon as a newbie chimes in, we've all been somewhat trained to think its a sockpuppet for someone else.    I admit that in most cases I assume a new person is a sockpuppet before I think they are genuinely new... especially if they ruffle a few feathers right away.   I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt though. 
    Posted by AlyssaJones[/QUOTE]

    I *$# hate suckpuppets.  Some of the ones done just for humor (Andy Rooney, the religious ones) are great, but if you can't tell who's who or what's what, you can't have a community.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from McBostonrob. Show McBostonrob's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    What's interestIng is how many reccomended each question got. People have speculated about ways the big number could be faked, but what can't be faked is how small the little number is. On a site where the popular posts routinely receive between 150 and 300 recommends, the "witty banter" only had 63 recommends as of about 3:15 PM today. And since we know that a lot of the witty banterers have multiple sock puppets, that number could easily be somewhat lower. Seems to me that the people are sick of the banter, and who could be surprised given the quality of the recent banter.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TwoCentDonation. Show TwoCentDonation's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    In Response to Re: Page on one poll:
    [QUOTE]I think people forget that if someone is bothering you, you don't HAVE to respond to them. I think that is a much better policy here than starting an all out war.
    Posted by BostonGal109[/QUOTE]

    I agree.  The fact that people continue to respond in kind to nasty comments is why this place has gotten uglier.  I know I've been part of the problem in the past, but it seems very few people here can just Drop It.  Instead, they feel the need to "stand up for themselves" or leave in a drama ridden snit.  It also seems like people FAIL to see how they are contributing to the atmosphere...  It seems to me that people too readily adopt the "well THEY started it" defense.

    Adding to this is seemingly uneven moderation.  Honestly, I've seen posts removed that were utterly innocuous. I also don't know what the deal is with certain posters.  I, for the most part, enjoy Porkchop's and Steddie's comments.  I fail to see why they are semi-perma-poofed, especially when I see other posters making really nasty comments.  Maybe there's stuff going on behind the scenes that I'm not seeing, but it does add to the appearance that the mods have favorites.

    Finally, I am very close to ditching the blog all together because I am tired of all the back and forth kvetching and the recurrent discussions about on-topic vs. off-topic.  If I don't feel like reading the off-topic chatter, I skip it.  If I feel like reading it, I read it.  If I feel like joining in, I do.  It's the internet.  Converstation drift and in-jokes happen.  Participation in it all is voluntary.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonGal109. Show BostonGal109's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    Amen Two-Cent. I'm ditto-ing everything you just said.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TwoCentDonation. Show TwoCentDonation's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    Oh, and as Diamond mentioned the other day, we tried the off-topic stuff in the forums.  It lasted a little while, but it never took off.  It just petered out.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from justcat. Show justcat's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    I call them sickpuppets.  I love the funny ones, but many are there solely for the  purpose of nasty innuendo about regular posters.  I was intimidated a little the first time I posted, but I jumped in anyway, and for the most part, it's been a great experience.  I think 1 p.m. is a little late for OT - mostly because just about everything that could be said about the letter has been said by 11.  IMHO.  I realize that makes it difficult for the LW to weed through all the comments looking for the pith, but honestly, it all has usually been said before OT starts.  And any LW who writes in has probably been reading for a while and understands that some posters are going to slam them - no matter what their issue is - and that they need to have  the skin of a velociraptor in order to read it. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from porkshop-a-go-go. Show porkshop-a-go-go's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    In Response to Re: Page on one poll:
    [QUOTE]What's interestIng is how many reccomended each question got. People have speculated about ways the big number could be faked, but what can't be faked is how small the little number is. On a site where the popular posts routinely receive between 150 and 300 recommends, the "witty banter" only had 63 recommends as of about 3:15 PM today. And since we know that a lot of the witty banterers have multiple sock puppets, that number could easily be somewhat lower. Seems to me that the people are sick of the banter, and who could be surprised given the quality of the recent banter.
    Posted by McBostonrob[/QUOTE]


    The other day I posted on Page One, "If you don't care about off-topic discussions, recommend this comment"

    Before it got poofed in the late morning, there were easily 50+ recommends.



     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TwoCentDonation. Show TwoCentDonation's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    In Response to Re: Page on one poll:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Page on one poll : The other day I posted on Page One, "If you don't care about off-topic discussions, recommend this comment" Before it got poofed in the late morning, there were easily 50+ recommends.
    Posted by porkshop-a-go-go[/QUOTE]

    It got poofed???????  Good grief.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kahlanamnell. Show kahlanamnell's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    I agree that uneven moderation has created even more problems in here, especially because it just leads to even more off topic discussion of blog favorietes and all that. But once again, I do find it disingenuous that commenters are getting upset about comments being made such as those made about porkchop's wife earlier this week, when just as awful things are said to each other and the LW regularly, and complaints about meanness get greeted with a chorus of "stop lecturing us" or "grow a thicker skin" or "it's just a blog, don't take it so personally, get over it." 

    It should be no more tolerated for a troll/sockpuppet to mock Porkchop's wife than it is for a commenter to tell the LW they hope their husband cheats on them and that they're a b****. The meanness has gotten out of hand and it's become pervasive to the point where I feel like the line is not only barely visible to some, I also think some of the regulars have become so jaded to it they don't even see it until it's one of their own under attack.

    KJB is a perfect example. You may not like what they said, or agree with her point or method of making it, but unless I missed it, they didn't call any one any names but were called a b****, a psycho, insane, and more. That shouldn't be tolerated, and shouldn't be shrugged off because it's not one of the regulars.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from porkshop-a-go-go. Show porkshop-a-go-go's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    In Response to Re: Page on one poll:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Page on one poll : It got poofed???????  Good grief.
    Posted by TwoCentDonation[/QUOTE]

    Yep, funny how that happens.  But I digress.

    Two-sheds, thanks for your insightful post.  I am thinking about it before I register my opinion, which I know you're all waiting for with bated breath.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from justcat. Show justcat's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    I have to agree with kahlanamnell and found the Mrs. Porky sickpuppet particularly loathesome.  I think people have numbed to the rude remarks and it doesn't particularly bode well for the future of this blog.  But I have, for the most part, ignored remarks made against myself, though sometimes even I can't take it any more.  I know, in my heart of hearts, that people who know me, know that whatever is said against me is not true, and I just have to remember that.  Words to live by.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from justcat. Show justcat's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    A friend posted this on FB - and I found it to be particularly relevant today: 
    An old Cherokee told his grandson, “My son, there is a battle of two wolves inside us all. One is EVIL - It is anger, jealously, greed, resentment, inferiority lies and ego. The other is GOOD - It is joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness, empathy and truth”.

    The boy thought about it and asked, “Grandfather, which wolf wins?”

    The old man quietly replied, “The one you feed”.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from burnt toast. Show burnt toast's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    I do not make rude remarks but am willingto learn
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from McBostonrob. Show McBostonrob's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    In response to "Re: Page on one poll": [QUOTE] It should be no more tolerated for a troll/sockpuppet to mock Porkchop's wife than it is for a commenter to tell the LW they hope their husband cheats on them and that they're a b****. Posted by kahlanamnell[/QUOTE] The difference in that particular case is that the person mocking Porkshop's wife mentioned personal things that they could have only known if they were real-life friends with people on the blog. So it wasn't just some random troll, it was a regular who was using personal off-line info to take shots on the blog. Creepy and stalkerish.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from porkshop-a-go-go. Show porkshop-a-go-go's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    In Response to Re: Page on one poll:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Page on one poll": The difference in that particular case is that the person mocking Porkshop's wife mentioned personal things that they could have only known if they were real-life friends with people on the blog. So it wasn't just some random troll, it was a regular who was using personal off-line info to take shots on the blog. Creepy and stalkerish.
    Posted by McBostonrob[/QUOTE]


    Exactly.  I will admit that I like a good dust-up as much as the next pot-stirrer - shocking, right?  It's difficult to not be a little unsettled about this.

    What's frustrating and difficult to accept is that it's a perfect example of uneven moderation (the name still exists) and personally, I am a bit irked and wary of my real-life connections now.

    It's a blog, people.  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from porkshop-a-go-go. Show porkshop-a-go-go's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    I thought about responding to that, but I don't know if I'm willing to go toe-to-toe with you here, hijacking this forum thread.  I apologize for the diversion.

    But, I will just say that I'm not naive.


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from wizen. Show wizen's posts

    Re: Page on one poll

    In Response to Re: Page on one poll:
    [QUOTE]You say "uneven moderation," but did you report it? (I hear there's a pact not to do so.) Did you add a note explaining what was wrong with the comment? (Our mods managed from Winnipeg don't know your personal business.) Our system is based on people reporting comments. If you won't do your part, nobody is going to know what's wrong. (Unless Meredith or I happen to look in and report something. Which we both do.) And I keep hearing about favoritism. Do any of you people know any of our mods IRL? I don't.
    Posted by BDCMod1[/QUOTE]

    BDC Mod,
    I do report some comments that are over the top, or that are attacks that Winnipeg might not realize are attacks. 

    But I also see innocuous comments removed - and I can't always figure out why.  Is that because someone reported the comment as abuse?  And if so, do the moderation staff verify that before they poof a comment?  Like reading it or waiting for a 2nd report?  Or can some people just go through and report a whole page and get all those comments removed?  It really does seem as though it can be done that way, I've occasionally seen whole pages of poofed comments, and it's hard to imagine that every single poster on that page said something inappropriate. 


     

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