Yesterday's Letter (Education)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Loud-Mouthed-Broad. Show Loud-Mouthed-Broad's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    Another reason why I might prefer a college-educated guy is it would decrease the chances of him resenting me for having gone to college.  It won't guarantee it, but it would lessen that chance.
    ---

    This is my biggest reason for looking for a guy with equal or better education than me.  There ARE guys who have a high enough self esteem to 'date up' - but they are few and far between.

    *Ducks from the inevitable tomatoes that are coming my way.  I know that I've written this in a snobby way, but it was in the interest of stimulating the discussion
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JeepersCripes. Show JeepersCripes's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    Well I will have to say, I am very glad my Masters Degreed BF doesnt think any less of me for not have a college degree. Because I am still a very smart, very witty and amazing person with a good job and security. And I know a lot of college grads and MBA's that cant say that.
     
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    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    In Response to Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education):
    [QUOTE]Another reason why I might prefer a college-educated guy is it would decrease the chances of him resenting me for having gone to college.  It won't guarantee it, but it would lessen that chance. --- This is my biggest reason for looking for a guy with equal or better education than me.  There ARE guys who have a high enough self esteem to 'date up' - but they are few and far between. *Ducks from the inevitable tomatoes that are coming my way.  I know that I've written this in a snobby way, but it was in the interest of stimulating the discussion
    Posted by Loud-Mouthed-Broad[/QUOTE]

    You are right, but it's hard to blame guys.  Regardless of how much progress women have made, the same rules still apply to men:  You should be the primary breadwinner; you should be at least as successful and educated as your partner; you have to be tough and not show your emotions, etc., etc.

    Very few people seem to recognize (or want to recognize) that for women to be equal to men, men must also be equal to women. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TwoCentDonation. Show TwoCentDonation's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    In Response to Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education) : You are right, but it's hard to blame guys.  Regardless of how much progress women have made, the same rules still apply to men:  You should be the primary breadwinner; you should be at least as successful and educated as your partner; you have to be tough and not show your emotions, etc., etc. Very few people seem to recognize (or want to recognize) that for women to be equal to men, men must also be equal to women. 
    Posted by two-sheds[/QUOTE]

    That reminds of the song "When I Was a Boy" by Dar Williams.  The first few verses are about her reminiscing about being able to do boy stuff when she was a little girl, and then the last verse is about a man telling her that she's the lucky one because she can cry.

    I also think women who are breadwinners get flack...  I could be wrong, but I sadly doubt it.  Women who bring home the money are likely to get asked, pointedly, why their husbands can't make enough, etc.  There's also pressure on us to marry "up" as opposed to "down."  But I do agree that there's more pressure on men with respect to who's the alpha in a marriage.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jim-in-Littleton. Show Jim-in-Littleton's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    In Response to Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education) : I disagree.  Mr. Cent & I went to two different colleges in two different parts of the country, and we can still relate to each other's college experiences of being in an academically challenging environment (i.e., bombing out in classes and getting our egos busted), dealing with roommate situations, etc.  We can also contrast out experiences.  For instance, I think his college would have been more fun for me...  But my dating life would have still stunk :P As to whether I'd share something with someone who went to CC and transferred to a 4 year, and was an older student, I think I would.  We'd both know what it's like to deal with jerk professors, a heavy academic load, university bureacracy, etc.
    Posted by TwoCentDonation[/QUOTE]


    So if you had dropped out after 3 years and not finished your degree, wouldn't you have run into the exact same things? People who never go to college deal with crappy roommates, have jerk bosses and deal with corporate bureacracy all the time.  I don't see that big of a difference between them that people couldn't relate to them.

    I went the Adult Ed route while I was on active duty in the military. I only took late-afternoon, evening or weekend classes.  All of my clasess were held on the military bases so I never set foot on an actual college campus during the entire time.  I squeezed my studying in between working, taking care of my family, maintaining a house/yard and being deployed around the world a few dozen times.  No dorms (although I did have the barracks situation for a while), no lecture halls, no frats, no parties, no semi-pro sports teams, etc...

    My degree says that I graduated from a large State University system but I have nothing in common with tens of thousands of other people that have the exact same degree from that school unless they happened to have gone the military/adult ed route as well.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TwoCentDonation. Show TwoCentDonation's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    In Response to Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education):
    [QUOTE]Well I will have to say, I am very glad my Masters Degreed BF doesnt think any less of me for not have a college degree.
    Posted by Jeepers-Cripes[/QUOTE]

    Yay!!

    I had a bf who I felt wanted me to be just as ambitious and degreed as him...  It was really annoying, because he couldn't see that I was allowing myself quality time for a personal life.  He was also a bit clueless as to how I could go about getting a degree...  He came from a family that was quite wealthy, and he had been in a lucrative career before he went back to school.  So one time he told me I should just go back to school full-time instead of spending 5+ yrs getting a masters.  He had failed to realize that not all of us have the means to go to grad school full-time and still make the rent payments.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TwoCentDonation. Show TwoCentDonation's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    Jerk professors aren't the same as jerk bosses.  Professors can be avoided after one semester.  Bosses?  Not so much.

    Jim, your case is a bit specialized.  But, I'm currently taking a night course and the students range from undergrads to mid-career professionals.  So, yes, I could see how an adult ed grad and a straight-out-of-high school grad could share similar experiences.

    As for me dropping out - well in that scenario I still would have gone to college, so perhaps I should have been more precise and indicated "attended college" and not just having gotten a degree.  Also, having had roommates during college and after, roomies during college would probably be more like your barracks situation - you're all in it together, you have similar if not the same schedules, and there's a dining hall you go to.  And there isn't any electric or gas bill to pay, no need to hunt down the deadbeat who rang up $156 in calls to France or who ordered $100 in pay-per-view movies.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but my intiution tells me there's a difference.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Loud-Mouthed-Broad. Show Loud-Mouthed-Broad's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    In Response to Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education) : You are right, but it's hard to blame guys.  Regardless of how much progress women have made, the same rules still apply to men:  You should be the primary breadwinner; you should be at least as successful and educated as your partner; you have to be tough and not show your emotions, etc., etc. Very few people seem to recognize (or want to recognize) that for women to be equal to men, men must also be equal to women. 
    Posted by two-sheds[/QUOTE]

    I read in The Economist that this is such a pervasive problem in Japan that it is impacting the population.

    I think the men of our generation have it tough.  They're supposed to be sensitive, but for the most part they had no role models to show them how to express their emotions in a healthy way. 

    They're expected to walk the tightrope between supporting their woman's progress, yet there are no role models to use to figure out how to balance a two career family (unless you spend all your disposable income on child care and let someone else raise your kids).
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnjoyEverySandwich. Show EnjoyEverySandwich's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    In Response to Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education):
    [QUOTE]Another reason why I might prefer a college-educated guy is it would decrease the chances of him resenting me for having gone to college.  It won't guarantee it, but it would lessen that chance. --- This is my biggest reason for looking for a guy with equal or better education than me.  There ARE guys who have a high enough self esteem to 'date up' - but they are few and far between. *Ducks from the inevitable tomatoes that are coming my way.  I know that I've written this in a snobby way, but it was in the interest of stimulating the discussion
    Posted by Loud-Mouthed-Broad[/QUOTE]


    I think there's truth to this, or there used to be back in the stone age, when I was dating.  I met a guy I thought was nice and didn't have any problem with him not having a degree.  My whole family is very blue collar and on my father's side, they actually kind of looked down on me for going to grad school (despite the fact that I paid for it and was totally self-supporting).  So, a guy who drove for UPS did not seem like someone from a different league from me, but he saw me being in grad school as a major impediment.

    He was probably right, but I never rejected someone just because of what they did for a living or how educated they were.    (My dad only had a high school diploma, but he had a genius-level IQ, so that probably has something to do with my openmindedness about it.)

    The things I am prejudiced about dating-wise are probably just as restrictive, but maybe not as easy to label.   Everyone has their deal-breakers, I guess.


     
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from JeepersCripes. Show JeepersCripes's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    Plus, my ex was an over-achieving college grad that had two majors. And while he was book smart, he was common sense stupid. And a liar and a your every day lowlife scum. So education is a limiting qualification for dating.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Butterflyz. Show Butterflyz's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    Jim, I don't know if you saw my post yesterday regarding the situation with my boyfriend and I. We both have college degrees, but I was a straight out of high school, four year, lived on campus, "traditional" student, while he did one year, took two off, then went back to school part time while working. While there are some aspects of the college experience that we share, required courses, bad profs, etc., the part of the college experience that I consider far more personality shaping, the dorm-living, dining halls, roommates, parties, etc., he has no reference point for. It's just one point of many possible cultural differences between two people. It's just that in this part of the country particularly, the college experience seems so ubiquitous (especially for those in their mid-20s such as myself), it can be strange not to have that point of reference with another person. I'm sure as one ages, it becomes less important. But just think how strange it can be (at certain ages) to relate to someone who was home-schooled instead of attending a high school be it public or private. Consider all the cultural references: prom, team sports, clubs, teachers, lockers, cafeterias, changing classes, that we just assume people to be able to relate to no matter where they're from.

    I also agree that when you're dealing with hundreds of profiles, you have narrow them somehow in the online dating. I know a lot of sites let you state not only your preferences but also the degree to which they matter. So, you can say, bachelor's degree, of intermediate importance, or non-smoking, required. I also think it's worth re-stating that how one dates "online" doesn't necessarily translate to the "real world." And I also agree that the filters become more lax the more time you spend on the sites without success. But ultimately, presentation of oneself makes a huge difference. When my now boyfriend first contacted me, he chose an e-mail subject header that was a lyric from an Oldie, clearly having paid attention to my profile where I stated my love for music and particularly Oldies. You'd be amazed how many people simply don't take the time to present themselves well or carefully read the profiles of the people they reach out to.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jim-in-Littleton. Show Jim-in-Littleton's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    I did see your response yesterday Butterlyz!  Thought it was one of the better responses of the day in fact.

    I just find this entire concept to be very foreign.  I was always told (and you see it repeated often) that going to college to was supposed to open one's mind to additional possibilities in life.  Basing one's future relationships on whether someone went to college (or finished a degree program) just strikes me as being more closed minded than open minded.

    I fully get the idea of common experiences but I have a mental block when it comes to the idea of presuming that a piece of paper or a checkbox on a Web site eliminates the possibility that the common experiences exist.  The whole idea of dating is to interact and learn what the common experiences are and aren't (as well as create a few).  If the dating sites were that good we could all just go punch in whatever our criteria is and marry the 1st "match" that pops up and live happily ever after, right?  For me, there are far to many intangibles to concern myself with than what the checkboxes allow for.

    I spent 21 years in the military but the idea of restricting my dating to women that also were in the military just seems a little silly to me. If I wrote a letter in to Love Letters saying that's what I do, I doubt there would be many people that would agree that limiting myself in such a way would be a good idea.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kind-of-Irritating-Lady. Show Kind-of-Irritating-Lady's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    Me not smart.

    Me like girl.  Girl married me.

    Me ok.
     
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    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    In Response to Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education):
    [QUOTE]Me not smart. Me like girl.  Girl married me. Me ok.
    Posted by The-Porkchop-Express[/QUOTE]


    How girl?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kind-of-Irritating-Lady. Show Kind-of-Irritating-Lady's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    Girl good.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Butterflyz. Show Butterflyz's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    Jim, I think it matters *why* you're interested in the answer to the check box, it could be for the cultural reasons, but there are a couple of other big reasons. It could be because you fear what the lack of a college degree means in terms of their earning potential, and I don't mean that in a gold-digger kind of way. People with college degrees tend to get better jobs and earn more, that's simply true and when looking for a life partner, it helps to know they'll have an easier time getting, maintaining, and moving up in a career and if you want children, that matters. Finally, there's a "values" issue. I value education. I want my children to value education. It helps to have a partner who also values education. This is not to say, before someone jumps on me here, that only those with college degrees value education, in fact, some without may value it even more. This is also not to say that a four year university is the only way to gain education. Certainly not. However, for those that take education seriously, a college degree is a potential indicator that the other person also takes education seriously. Just as a non-college graduate may make a lot of money and be financially secure, a non-college graduate may share the value of education (and vice versa on both accounts), and narrowing based on that check box, may eliminate some good potential partners, but when you have to have *some* criteria, it's not the worse place to start.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kind-of-Irritating-Lady. Show Kind-of-Irritating-Lady's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    Did you go to college?  
    Sweet.  Does that work out for you?  
    Awesome.  Are you happy with yourself and how you've turned out?

    Because that will show, college education or not, and the confidence gained from it will either be a major turn on, or a turn-off for the lack thereof.

    I am curious though, when on a date, do you ask for your date to bring a yearbook, wear their school's sweatshirt and bring 3 notarized copies of their diploma?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kind-of-Irritating-Lady. Show Kind-of-Irritating-Lady's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    Great, did I kill a thread again?

    Yeesh.  Am I like, some sort of leper or something?
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Butterflyz. Show Butterflyz's posts

    Re: Yesterday's Letter (Education)

    Was that directed at me Porkchop??

    I think I've been quite clear it's not the only thing that matters, and when it came down to it, I did end up dating someone who had not yet completed a degree, and only later did so untraditionally. I love him very much, and I'm very proud of what's he accomplished. If I were to have to start dating again, would I prefer someone college educated? Yes, I would. Would I consider dating someone who was not college-educated but had their stuff together and was intelligent and hard-working? Yes, I would. It's a preference, not a deal-breaker.

    I will say that for me personally, *why* they didn't have a degree would make a big difference to me. If it's because they went to trade school and became an electrician or carpenter and worked hard and didn't feel that a traditional college experience was for them, then cool. If it's because they didn't feel like it and they're not doing anything with their life, then not. Having a brother who took the latter path despite having had opportunity, I know that someone with his personality, despite being a good person, would not make a good partner for me. I think that ties in with what I think it was BostonGal was saying yesterday regarding the stories of those two guys who didn't have the degree because they wouldn't complete the other requirements or pay the money for the diploma, it said something about their personality that has nothing to do with the degree or lack thereof.

    In any event, my only point here is that having a preference for those with a college degree when looking for matches through online dating is not unreasonable or unwarranted.
     
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