Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)? : True.  But how crazy can that be? We are basically pondering whether the person is fairly compensated or not, in order to decide how much to tip him.  Not based on how much extra SERVICE he provided or the value of that service to us.
    Posted by Charles2008[/QUOTE]

    My point was more to explain why, generally speaking, you wouldn't tip a pizza delivery guy 15 to 20 percent for delivering a pie to your house.  Beyond the compensation they receive the service delivery drivers provide is far more simple than a waiter in a resturant. 

    Delivery drivers bring the food and the job is done. 

    A waiter, on the other hand, will bring menu's, bring water and bread (if available), take the order, advise on specials and perhaps their thoughts on the food, bring food to the table, refill drinks, take away empty plates, and possibly even package up leftovers.  And if the average meal takes an hour to hour and half, a waiter - supplemented by other staff - are tending to the customer the entire time.  That, then, is deserving of a reasonable tip (15%) for basic and adequate service and something more generous (18% and up) for quality service.  I don't think people should cheap out on a delivery driver, but tipping a few  bucks should be acceptable.  Of course if the weather is terrible, or the order is exceptionally large a customer should tip more but only in rare cases should a delivery order command anything approaching or above 10%.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from plasko. Show plasko's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    @Charles2008

    I was talking about New York City in particular. Nothing to do with New York State.
    But is tipping the same % really USA-wide, or does it vary from state to state in amount given?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Charles2008. Show Charles2008's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]@Charles2008 I was talking about New York City in particular. Nothing to do with New York State. But is tipping the same % really USA-wide, or does it vary from state to state in amount given?
    Posted by plasko[/QUOTE]

    Yes.  You might find that there is some regional difference in practice, or expected generosity in tipping, or whether pre-tax or post-tax.  But not much to be noticeable.

    Also, it seems to me expected tipping % is also evolving over the years.  15% might have been the norm a couple of decades ago (I am not sure about this - I lived in several countries during that time on 6-12 months stints, so my memory might be influenced), but not anymore.  Also, it seems that the norm moved from pre-tax to post-tax. 
    We shouldn't be surprised though.  Offical wages have not kept up with inflation, and the tipping is a way to somewhat make up for it.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)? : My point was more to explain why, generally speaking, you wouldn't tip a pizza delivery guy 15 to 20 percent for delivering a pie to your house.  Beyond the compensation they receive the service delivery drivers provide is far more simple than a waiter in a resturant.  Delivery drivers bring the food and the job is done.  A waiter, on the other hand, will bring menu's, bring water and bread (if available), take the order, advise on specials and perhaps their thoughts on the food, bring food to the table, refill drinks, take away empty plates, and possibly even package up leftovers.  And if the average meal takes an hour to hour and half, a waiter - supplemented by other staff - are tending to the customer the entire time.  That, then, is deserving of a reasonable tip (15%) for basic and adequate service and something more generous (18% and up) for quality service.  I don't think people should cheap out on a delivery driver, but tipping a few  bucks should be acceptable.  Of course if the weather is terrible, or the order is exceptionally large a customer should tip more but only in rare cases should a delivery order command anything approaching or above 10%.
    Posted by DamainAllen[/QUOTE]

    Actually a delivery driver expects a 15-20 % tip. I used to be one. And I was also a waiter. In my opinion, the delivery driver does the same or even more. He actually brings the food to your house. Whereas the waiter takes it form the kitchen to your table. And a delivery driver relies on tips in the same way that a waiter does. No real difference there.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]Bogus-  Having worked in the food service industry, I can assure you it is 20% on the total bill amount, including drinks taxes etc. . . For those bad with math. . . . . move the decimal point one spot to the left, then double that number. 
    Posted by whatnow3[/QUOTE]

    You are correct, sir!

    I was about to do the take the first number and double it, but you are actually more accurate. My method works becasue I don't really spend alot.    I eat in cheap places, tip like a drunken sailor, and get treated like a king.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALF72. Show ALF72's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)? : Actually a delivery driver expects a 15-20 % tip. I used to be one. And I was also a waiter. In my opinion, the delivery driver does the same or even more. He actually brings the food to your house. Whereas the waiter takes it form the kitchen to your table. And a delivery driver relies on tips in the same way that a waiter does. No real difference there.
    Posted by JaySev2010[/QUOTE]

    the delivery driver can expect what he likes. He gets paid more than a waiter and does not do as much or more than a waiter. He gets in his car and brings the food to your house in a bag. That's it.  A waiter brings the food to you, puts it in front of you, gets you anything you need [cutlery, etc], checks on you to see how the food is, refills your glasses and cleans up after you.  There is much more involved.  And there is also the pay disparity between the waitstaff and the delivery guy.  No way am I tipping him 20%.  It probably comes close to that just b/c I round up, but I don't think there is any comparision between what a deliver guy does and a waiter. 
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)? : the delivery driver can expect what he likes. He gets paid more than a waiter and does not do as much or more than a waiter. He gets in his car and brings the food to your house in a bag. That's it.  A waiter brings the food to you, puts it in front of you, gets you anything you need [cutlery, etc], checks on you to see how the food is, refills your glasses and cleans up after you.  There is much more involved.  And there is also the pay disparity between the waitstaff and the delivery guy.  No way am I tipping him 20%.  It probably comes close to that just b/c I round up, but I don't think there is any comparision between what a deliver guy does and a waiter. 
    Posted by ALF72[/QUOTE]

    Again, I've done both jobs. Both get paid about the same (a delivery driver doesn't make more base pay or more in tips than a waiter). Both jobs rely on tips for a living wage. If you are paying less than the 15-20% tip to the driver,, that isn't enough for your average driver. I would also argue both jobs require a great deal of foot work, but delivery driving is harder in my opinion. Again, the waiter just comes to your table, the driver goes to your home. If you are too cheap to pay him 15-20% go pick up the food yourself.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ambergirl. Show ambergirl's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    JaySev, you are wrong.  My cousin does delivery and makes a little more than minimum wage, where waiters make 2 - 3 dollars an hour.  Do the math.  And I agree with Alf, waiters do far more work.  Next time you take a delivery job, make sure you are getting paid correctly.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]JaySev, you are wrong.  My cousin does delivery and makes a little more than minimum wage, where waiters make 2 - 3 dollars an hour.  Do the math.  And I agree with Alf, waiters do far more work.  Next time you take a delivery job, make sure you are getting paid correctly.
    Posted by ambergirl[/QUOTE]

    Sorry amber, you are wrong, and your cousin just happens to work for a delivery sevice or restaurant that pays min. wage (some waitrers also make minimum wage as well). This is entirely up to the company. They can pay minimum wage, or they can employ a subminimum wage payscale. Most delivery drivers make below minimum. I worked for a number of years in the boston area doing delivery for several different companies, and never once made minimum wage. Working delivery I've encoutnered the following wages from different employers: 3 dollars/ hour, 2 dollars per delivery, base pay of 100/week, etc. Trust me amber, I know what I am talking about. And I've worked in restaurants as a waiter as well. Delivery drivers also rely just as much on tips, and work just as hard. It may ease your conscience to believe that most delivery drivers get paid well, so you can leave a 1 or 2 dollar tip. But I assure you, most guys need the tips to make a living wage.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    And amber, even drivers that get paid minimum wage, rarely get compensated for gas and other vehicle expenses. So it ends up going below minimum wage anyways. Add to that delivery drivers often have to deliver to bad neighborhoods, are targets for robberies, and at greater risk for vehicle collisions, i'd say paying them a decent tip is just as important as it is to a waitress. Also, the majority of delivery jobs in massachusetts (unless you work for a chain like dominoes or pizza hut), are under the table, sub minimum wage positions.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from gwolfe28. Show gwolfe28's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    Whilst I appreciate all the comments in here, it should be noted that when travelling on business, my company policy states that tips should not exceed 15%.  As such this is my practice in general. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]Whilst I appreciate all the comments in here, it should be noted that when travelling on business, my company policy states that tips should not exceed 15%.  As such this is my practice in general. 
    Posted by gwolfe28[/QUOTE]

    That is fine. BUt just understand, when you visit the same restaurant they remember how much you tip, and you are serviced accordingly.

    On the delivery driver subject, people also need to realize, if they only tip one or two dollars, they will be last in line. Drivers often have multiiple deliveries at once. And while geography features into delivery order, so does tip quality. If you are a cheap tipper you food will be cold more often.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)? : But, you would think that the waiter can handle more customers per hour than a delivery driver; and therefore more potential for tips. But me too.  I don't think I ever tipped delivery person 20%.  I just never considered it.I always thought it was some $$ for the trip, unrelated to the delivery value.  I would always leave $4 or $5.  What do I know!
    Posted by Charles2008[/QUOTE]

    If you leave 4 or 5 for a standard order (say 20 to 30 dollars) you'll be fine. If you leave anything less than 15-20 bucks for a 100 dollar order, you will be last in line on the next delivery run. And the drive might just eat some of your fried too. That is just the reality. Just like you probably don't want to eat at a place you've tipped 5% at, because there is a good chance your food has been meddled with.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)? : I mean friendliness of your average waiter/waitress in the area, compared to practically anywhere else in the country.   Not on purpose.  Of course some are better, but the average is dismal.
    Posted by Charles2008[/QUOTE]

    If you want plastic smiles, and forced good manners, move to another state.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Charles2008. Show Charles2008's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)? : If you want plastic smiles, and forced good manners, move to another state.
    Posted by JaySev2010[/QUOTE]
     
    This is THEIR job.  Isn't it?

    I hope this attitude is not what is prevalent in the food service industry.  THEIR job is to make you feel WELCOME.  Maybe people should start stiffing them when their attitude suc_s.   This is the ugly side of a set % of tipping becoming so automatic and expected.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)? :   This is THEIR job.  Isn't it? I hope this attitude is not what is prevalent in the food service industry.  THEIR job is to make you feel WELCOME .  Maybe people should start stiffing them when their attitude suc_s.   This is the ugly side of a set % of tipping becoming so automatic and expected.
    Posted by Charles2008[/QUOTE]

    No, their job is to make the customer feel comfortable and want to come back. What you are missing is people in Boston are not comfortable with the kind of service you get in other states (at least I am not). When I go to Virginia or Ohio, for example, I feel uncomfortable with the overly enthusiastic service. I much prefer the service you get in MA.

    I guess you can stiff people if you feel that strongly about it. But just understand there is a reason for differences in regional styles. What works in North Carolina, isn't going to work here. We have different expectations.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Charles2008. Show Charles2008's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?


    I accept the differences in regional styles.   I object to the notion that smiles have to be "plastic" and good manners necessarily "forced". 

    I don't know of anybody else you doesn't want their service with a smile.  Does not have to necessarily be southern-style "honey and sweety"  to be considered a friendly service.  I am sick though of feeling that I am inconveniencing them when I show up to eat.

    (this is not a commentary on all restaurants or waiters here, but there are too many, and the rate is much higher than the rest of the country)

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]I accept the differences in regional styles.   I object to the notion that smiles have to be "plastic" and good manners necessarily "forced".[/QUOTE]

    Smiles don't have to be forced. But if you are smiling at everyone you serve, I tend to doubt the sincerity of it.

    [QUOTE]I don't know of anybody else you doesn't want their service with a smile.  Does not have to necessarily be southern-style "honey and sweety"  to be considered a friendly service.[/QUOTE]

    I want cordial service. The smile, if it is fake, is a turn off for me as a customer. I would rather the service be friendly and polite, but the server be his natural self.

    [QUOTE]I am sick though of feeling that I am inconveniencing them when I show up to eat. (this is not a commentary on all restaurants or waiters here, but there are too many, and the rate is much higher than the rest of the country)
    Posted by Charles2008[/QUOTE]

    Well, you have the option of not eating at places like that. What restaurants are you going to? Most of the places I frequent I don't find what you are describing here. And the ones where I do encoutner it, it is part of the charm.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dewin142. Show dewin142's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    It would be ridiculous to tip on the tax!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)? : Then, we agree.  I guess it is just the language we disagreed on. Cordial service  is plenty good to me.  Smile or no smile.  My comment was about non-cordial service, where you are made to feel that you were inconveniencing then. I know of just one place (in Faneuil hall) were it is their shtick to be rude.  I am not talking about that.  You go there for the fun of it. Also, not all places are unwelcoming.  I find though that welcoming (cordial) service in the Boston area is less prevalent than elsewhere (where it is ALWAYS expected).  I travel almost every week pretty much everywhere (business requirement).  We also eat out 3-4 times a month, and we don't normally frequent the same restaurants (we might go to the same place maybe twice a year if we like it).  So, my commentary is about Boston area restaurants, vs. the rest of the country.
    Posted by Charles2008[/QUOTE]
    And my commentary is about boston versus other area restaurants. I travel plenty, and have lived in other states (though I was born here and raised here) and my personal feeling is the service in other states is too enthusiastic. It just makes me feel uncomfortable.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE] I know of just one place (in Faneuil hall) were it is their shtick to be rude.  I am not talking about that.  8[/QUOTE]

    Oh, I wasn't talking abotu schtick, I was talking about it being part of the charm. Like when you go to a diner and the waitress belows from fifteen feet away "what you having honey?" I am also just generally more comfortable around people with something of a thick social shell. I much prefer an exchange with a server who can trade friendly barbs, than a server who is just being polite but boring to talk with.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from lesvalseuses. Show lesvalseuses's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    20%...like any of you go out...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from JaySev2010. Show JaySev2010's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]jay, You are mincing words.  Polite.  Friendly.  Trading friendly barbs.  etc. They are all welcoming words.   I am commenting on servers that make you feel unwelcome.  No matter what the manner of welcoming is.  And, I find that it is mire prevalent here.
    Posted by Charles2008[/QUOTE]

    I am not mincing words. I don't get the sense you do about our service. I think we are just as polite as elsewhere in the country. Maybe you aren't from here and simply don't get our style, or maybe you are a thin skilled prikk who should take a hike. Get the F out of Boston if you don't like it. I've been around the country, lived in other states, and the truth is, people here are simply more sincere. Go to Ohio, or Virginia if you want to have your back side kissed by the staff.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?

    In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tipping: 18% on pre-tax, or final bill amount (including taxes)? : kargiver, I accept your insight since I have no personal experience in working in the food industry.   Frankly though, I am shocked that the numbers don't work out better the other way...What is the percentage of cheapskates in the population?  
    Posted by Charles2008[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, I missed your direct question, Charles.

    The cheapskate population is surprisingly large - maybe half.  Nice, considerate people like you think they are in the vast majority, but it just isn't the case especially when no one is watching like when you get separate checks and everyone's eyes are on their own.  No one is adding up the bill and ensuring the tip is fair.  I wish I could tell you it's a more reasonable percent of restaurant goers, say like 5%, but it's just not true.  Thanks for conceding to my experience no matter how unbelievable and disheartening it might be.  I was so disappointed to find this out about people...
     
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