What's the answer to stop the shootings?

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    [QUOTE]You are all familiar with the mountain of recent shooting murders in Boston.  The city obviously is not winning. Do you have any bright ideas that they might be able to use? Please make it practical and logical and especially civil.[/QUOTE]

    What is scary is that we just came off a real decline in violence. I suspect the economy may be a major part of the problem. When times are tough, crime goes up. To some extent, though people don't want to hear this, we may have to grit our teeth and be more cautious.

    A lot of it, I think, is cultural as well. There was a story on the recent shooting in the globe today, and a resident from the area said something interesting. He pointed out there has always been a certain amount of violence in Mattapan, but he said the rules have changed. Shootings were one thing, but before you didn't target women and children (though they may have been hit by stray gunfire in the past). I don't know how true this statement is. But it is intriguing and it does highlight what makes this last shooting so dreadful.

    I think you need a bottom up, top down approach. You have to get more police into these areas, and you need to create an efficient system for deterring crime. (perhaps your camera suggestion will work, perhaps not, I don't know). But you also need to combat the whole "don't snitch" mentality in some of these places. The communities themselves need revival on a cultural and on a economic level. I've lived in bad places throughout the state, and it feels like, not only are the criminals winning, but they are becoming the heroes in inner cities. 

    As we learn more about the details of the last shooting, we may learn more potential solutions.

    One solution that leaps immediately to my mind, is reporting needs to be more visceral. It is one thing to hear a news story about 5 people being shot shortly after midnight. It is another to hear a story that details the pain the victims felt, the realities of gunshot wounds, etc. Rather than report on a quiet street corner, maybe NECN and WBZ should be reporting from emergency rooms. Part of the problem is we feel so removed from the situation because of the nature of reporting.
     
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    Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings?

     Detailing the pain won't make a difference. A lot of people look at this the way I do: this was not an accident. This was not the wrong house. This was very much intentional and a message was sent.

     Who the message was for, specifically, I do not know. Something sounds funny, though. According to an article I read in a paper, this was apparently over a bad deal for marijuna.
     This can mean two things:

    1. The leader of the group that committed the murders is overly ruthless.
    2. The testimony is a lie and something else occured that demanded an answer from the leader of the group that committed the murders.

     I'm more inclined to pick #2. This was not a simple case of killing the offender. To deliberatly kill the kid and his mom suggests that this may have been an attempt to wipe out the family, and that is a response only the most ruthless of the ruthless would even consider.
     The question, though, is what could the offense have possibly been? A bad deal on marijuana doesn't seem, at least to me, to be a high enough offense to warrant such a reaction.
     Why go after the entire group, drawing all this extra attention upon you, than to simply go after the guy in question?

     How to go about stopping this kind of violence? Money, I believe is the key. It's no secret that you can make more money dealing drugs than you can holding down an honest job. Money buys the girls, the high tech toys, the flashy cars, and most importantly, the power it takes to keep making more money (in such fashion).
     You either completely shut down the drug lines or you make an honest job more lucrative to them than drug dealing.
     Remember, you're not going to get them to the table with a guilty conscience. You can get them to the table if there's enough money on it, however.
     
     
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    Not sure I'd want to "get them to the table" if they are crims. Saving the kids from a criminal future is the best bet, before they turn bad. 
    Also I am not so sure there is a spike in violence this year. According to last year crime was unusually low in 2009, due to the cold rainy summer we had. This year was warmer and we returned to "normal" levels of violent crimes. So when you compare to last year you can claim crime is increasing, but you are comparing to an anomaly.

     
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    Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings?

    If you want to stop it, African American leaders have got to change the culture. 

    They need to create neighborhood watches and make it very clear that anyone participating in crime will be reported to the police by their family members, relatives and church members.

    The culture allows for these sorts of things.  No snitching promotes it.  The gangsta culture promotes it.

    This cannot be stopped until African Americans take responsibility for the problems, and make it clear it is not good for the community and will not be ignored.   
     
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    Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings?

    Fight Crime:  Shoot Back
     
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    [QUOTE]Society cannot afford to support convicted criminals in prisons forever.  It is a tremendous burden for us all, and in order for prisons to be large enough to incarcerate what they can, courts are forced to release "bad" people before they serve their time. I believe that a finite number of cells should be established, and as that number is reached, "new people" will have room made for them by executing the those that meet certain, yet-to-be-established critera that makes them qualify.  This may be those that have committed heinous crimes and are serving life sentences, or extra-long sentences (20-40 years). This may have a self-policing affect on the streets, and should cost Society less in the long run.
    Posted by Bopanopawitz[/QUOTE]

    I am not convinced this would solve the problem in Mattapan. I also don't think liguidating the prison population to save money is ethical (I support the death penalty in principle though, but feel the system is too imperfect and the risk of executing an innocent too high to have the death penalty).

    I've lived in these areas, and you are dealing with guys who don't expect to live past their 20s anyways. I don't think an inner city gang banger is as affraid as you think.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from plasko. Show plasko's posts

    Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings?

    For me, I am in favor of a zero-tolerance approach to crime-fighting.
    Someone drops litter - they get ticketed and fined.
    Someone jay-walks - ticket and fine.
    Antisocial/lewd behavior - a night in the local jailcell. 
    Graffitti - taken to court and made to clean up their patch of neighborhood.
    Speeding, running red-lights, rolling through stop signs, shoplifting, etc etc. 
    If we hammer down on the small things and make people aware that the police are actually watching then they will be a thousand times less likely to progress onto bigger stuff. Its only when you get away with something that it gives you confidence to push more boundaries.
    We can even set up squads of trainee police officers as these community watchers, to save on real police having to deal with small matters. In the UK they have whats called "special constables" who are members of the public, specially-trained, who work part-time like this with the police (and maintain their real job aswell). That would be easy to institute. 
    So would removing real cops from construction-site duty and getting them walking the streets and interacting with communities. This latter one wont even cost any more money!

    The zero-tolerance approach cleaned up NYC a few years back. Could work here too. 


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

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    [QUOTE]For me, I am in favor of a zero-tolerance approach to crime-fighting. Someone drops litter - they get ticketed and fined. Someone jay-walks - ticket and fine. Antisocial/lewd behavior - a night in the local jailcell.  Graffitti - taken to court and made to clean up their patch of neighborhood. Speeding, running red-lights, rolling through stop signs, shoplifting, etc etc.  If we hammer down on the small things and make people aware that the police are actually watching then they will be a thousand times less likely to progress onto bigger stuff. Its only when you get away with something that it gives you confidence to push more boundaries. We can even set up squads of trainee police officers as these community watchers, to save on real police having to deal with small matters. In the UK they have whats called "special constables" who are members of the public, specially-trained, who work part-time like this with the police (and maintain their real job aswell). That would be easy to institute.  So would removing real cops from construction-site duty and getting them walking the streets and interacting with communities. This latter one wont even cost any more money! The zero-tolerance approach cleaned up NYC a few years back. Could work here too. 
    Posted by plasko[/QUOTE]

    Sounds like you would love singapore. Personally I don't want to live in a world like that.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings? : Sounds like you would love singapore. Personally I don't want to live in a world like that.
    Posted by ForumCleaner[/QUOTE]

    Its only for those hot-spot areas of crime. Once the crime alleviates (say after 3 years) then the rules can be taken down a gear as a reward for the community. In fact this has been done other places with great success, because it went hand-in-hand with rejuvenation projects at the same time (painting houses, fixing roads, upgrading community centers and schools). The theory was that if you give people pride in their community they will be less likely to destroy it. 

    But yeah, I probably would love Singapore. Not that I have seen many people spitting gum out on the street in Boston though. I am impressed its not more common. 
     
     
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    New York is cleaned up???Where have you been living the past 10 years.
     
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    [QUOTE]New York is cleaned up???Where have you been living the past 10 years.
    Posted by sand007[/QUOTE]



    Happy now?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings?

    Men need to stop fathering children out of wedlock and start being fathers to their children.

     
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    [QUOTE]Men need to stop fathering children out of wedlock and start being fathers to their children.
    Posted by macnh1[/QUOTE]

    I agree with the latter part, kids do need parenting from both sides. But wedlock? Ya right. You seen the divorce statistics at all? You would prefer 2 constantly fighting parents in the same house, rather than 2 divorced happy parents living in different homes? A ring on a finger means squat. Its the love and family commitment that is bonding and special. 
    I think a good education is the key to the mystery. Its a well known fact that dumb people are the ones being sucked into crime (especially violent crime). Intelligent people are more empathic and can easily see non-violent solutions to problems. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ForumCleaner. Show ForumCleaner's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings? : I agree with the latter part, kids do need parenting from both sides. But wedlock? Ya right. You seen the divorce statistics at all? You would prefer 2 constantly fighting parents in the same house, rather than 2 divorced happy parents living in different homes? A ring on a finger means squat. Its the love and family commitment that is bonding and special.  I think a good education is the key to the mystery. Its a well known fact that dumb people are the ones being sucked into crime (especially violent crime). Intelligent people are more empathic and can easily see non-violent solutions to problems. 
    Posted by plasko[/QUOTE]

    Divorces are going down in the US. Mostly a boomer thing.

    I think there is actually research to show that divorce is still worse. The old argument that it is better to be happy parents and get a divorce, so the kids don't experience the fighting, is really part of the whole Boomer self love BS. I am not bible thumper or family values guy, but I think a lot of these arguments are rationalizations for doing what you want to do and not putting hte kids first.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings? : Divorces are going down in the US. Mostly a boomer thing. I think there is actually research to show that divorce is still worse. The old argument that it is better to be happy parents and get a divorce, so the kids don't experience the fighting, is really part of the whole Boomer self love BS. I am not bible thumper or family values guy, but I think a lot of these arguments are rationalizations for doing what you want to do and not putting hte kids first.
    Posted by ForumCleaner[/QUOTE]

    But we are in the country that is the champion of putting yourself first. Just look at the overflowing old-folks homes as an example. Dumping your parents in a home just because they might be an inconvenience to look after yourself. Its the same mentality as the parents who expect the kids to be brought up by the schools system. Very hands-off approach to life when others are concerned, even their own family. But that mentality is nourished well by the USA culture of today. 
    If you want to fix society then you have to fix the culture, and rules that make the culture. Not gonna happen. I am also part of this, aswell, I must point out. You know, I barely know who my neighbors are? Its encouraged thesedays not to interact and be friendly to people. If a new neighbor was to knock on my door tomorrow and ask to come in for a chat and a coffee I'd probably think it was a psychopath! Ahhh society, isn't it just great?!

     
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    Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings? : But we are in the country that is the champion of putting yourself first. Just look at the overflowing old-folks homes as an example. Dumping your parents in a home just because they might be an inconvenience to look after yourself.[/QUOTE]

    I agree there is that at work here. We don't take care of our elders well. But that is the double edged sword of rugged individualism and personal freedom. Personally I was raised in a family where the elders lived with us, and kids didn't leave the house till much later. Not because they weren't working, but because we were expected to help our parents pay the bills once we could work.

    [QUOTE] Its the same mentality as the parents who expect the kids to be brought up by the schools system. Very hands-off approach to life when others are concerned, even their own family. But that mentality is nourished well by the USA culture of today.  If you want to fix society then you have to fix the culture, and rules that make the culture. Not gonna happen. I am also part of this, aswell, I must point out. You know, I barely know who my neighbors are? Its encouraged thesedays not to interact and be friendly to people. If a new neighbor was to knock on my door tomorrow and ask to come in for a chat and a coffee I'd probably think it was a psychopath! Ahhh society, isn't it just great?!
    Posted by plasko[/QUOTE]

    It takes time to change culture and you have to be careful when you do you aren't trying to recreate something that a) never existed in the first place, or b) isn't feasible. I also think this needs to happen at the grass roots level, not from the government down.
     
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    Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings?

    In Response to Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings? : I agree with the latter part, kids do need parenting from both sides. But wedlock? Ya right. You seen the divorce statistics at all? You would prefer 2 constantly fighting parents in the same house, rather than 2 divorced happy parents living in different homes? A ring on a finger means squat. Its the love and family commitment that is bonding and special.  I think a good education is the key to the mystery. Its a well known fact that dumb people are the ones being sucked into crime (especially violent crime). Intelligent people are more empathic and can easily see non-violent solutions to problems. 
    Posted by plasko[/QUOTE]

    I don't believe the point of the poster was that these people should necessarily be married. The point is that they shouldn't be fathering children with multiple women which is what many do. It sends a message to others that it's ok and they then turn around and do the same and so on and so on.
    They should only be fathering children if and when they marry. That alone would cut down of the kids who aren't being parented from both father and mother. Let's face it....on average the kind of person who has kids with multiple women isn't really interested in being father of the year.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings? : I don't believe the point of the poster was that these people should necessarily be married. The point is that they shouldn't be fathering children with multiple women which is what many do. It sends a message to others that it's ok and they then turn around and do the same and so on and so on. They should only be fathering children if and when they marry. That alone would cut down of the kids who aren't being parented from both father and mother. Let's face it....on average the kind of person who has kids with multiple women isn't really interested in being father of the year.
    Posted by hawkeye01[/QUOTE]

    Fathering children with multiple women and parents not staying in the same house is the basic issue there. These are guys who have no interest in getting married. I've seen this a lot. Much of it is just how things are done in the inner city. And I am not sure how you reshape that.

    What really gets me is when I meet one of these guys (and I do know a lot of them) and they try to tell me what a good dad they are becuase they pay court ordered child support.

    On the other hand, I know guys who are in this kind of situation and are trying to make it work and trying to address the emotional needs (as well as financial of all their children). So there are exceptions.

    More often than not, the scenario I see is this: guy making very little money gets woman pregnant. He honestly is interested in being a father and takes care of things the first couple of years. But he ends up knocking up a woman on the side, and things get complicated. Then he basically blames his kids for the woman's reaction and shifts over to the other lady. Before you know it, this guy has kids with upwards of 3 women.

    Again, I have seen guys make this work. But the problem is, in most of these situations, it doesn't. And the kids are mislead, because they start out with a dad who is interested in them, and then he basically leaves them in the dust. I can only imagine how painful that's got to be. Especially growing up in the kind of house I did, where we had both parents, grandparents and aunts and uncles living with us (and grandchildren too). I just don't understand how someone says "I'm done with you" when it comes to family. Family is the only permament thing you'll find in this world.
     
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    Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings?

    Teaching personal responsibility should go hand in hand with teaching freedom and rights. I actually laughed out very loud when I saw those ads on tv from United Church telling people to be good parents, and pay some attention to their kids. 
    But then I saw that its actually needed - people would rather sit in front of the tv than go kick a ball around the park with their little ones, who should be the light of their lives, but yet get ignored at every opportunity. So "deadbeat dads" can still be in a happy stable marriage, just that they always put their work first for example. If you are around and constantly ignoring your kids who you live with that has got to be just as bad as that dude who runs off. Sure, you provide some cash but no loving parenting. 
    There are definitely no magic-wand answers to solving these issues. But I do feel kids may join gangs for "family stability" that they can't get at home. Then it spirals out of control from that point. 
     
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    [QUOTE]Teaching personal responsibility should go hand in hand with teaching freedom and rights. I actually laughed out very loud when I saw those ads on tv from United Church telling people to be good parents, and pay some attention to their kids.  But then I saw that its actually needed - people would rather sit in front of the tv than go kick a ball around the park with their little ones, who should be the light of their lives, but yet get ignored at every opportunity. So "deadbeat dads" can still be in a happy stable marriage, just that they always put their work first for example. If you are around and constantly ignoring your kids who you live with that has got to be just as bad as that dude who runs off. Sure, you provide some cash but no loving parenting.  There are definitely no magic-wand answers to solving these issues. But I do feel kids may join gangs for "family stability" that they can't get at home. Then it spirals out of control from that point. 
    Posted by plasko[/QUOTE]

    I agree. But how to implement it is the issue. Do you have general courses on ethics in the public schools? If so, what do you include and what do you not include. I think it would be great to have general ethics instructions in the classroom, but it is so controvertial. Everyone disagrees on the details.

    One thing I have made a point of with my kids, is teaching them philosophy. Getting them to read things like the nichomachean ethics, and Epictetus, then having them talk about it with me. I have system of beliefs that I live by and pass on, but I also want them to understand the range of ethical views and make some choices for themselves.

    This is something that I think we've lost. No one takes philosophy seriously anymore. It has gotten to the point that if you ask a person "what is the good life?", they stare at you blankly. Most people don't even know what that means. They don't even realize that point A in ethics is establishing some ultimate measure of good.
     
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    Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings?

    Everyone must think of it in as simple terms as possible!  Why all the violence? Whats going on?  Our biological design is to survive! Procreate, eat to live, hunt, gather..etc  Now that we have evolved we need to find a purpose for living!!!! Stay with me...If you knock on everyones door and ask them what they want, find their answer and help them reach it.  Why do people do drugs? They want to get high, kill some pain from somewhere..well if you can figure out what you are good at, what you want in your life a house a car, and reasonable means to get there then you have your purpose and that is your drive and you will not want to be bothered with drugs, gangs, violence.  These people are hopeless, they do not see how they can get out. They are broken down to the core of our biology...survival...so they cannot think for more than that just yet..you must give them the reasons and ways to find the drive so they move on...Trust me i know, i came from the hood in NY and i struggled to make it watched my parents struggle, no running water at times, no proper toilet, food scarce but never on government money, my parents worked hard then made us do so as well, now i continue that struggle because i know my purpose for being here. People need to know they are alive! Now they need to find their purpose in life.  If you have a goal, you have limitless possibilties. they turn to drugs, and guns because they lose hope, and forget their purpose. sit someone down, smack them and ask: what do you want to do with your life? House? Car? Kids?  Career?  And show them the means to do so.  But you must keep at them to have the drive, like holidays, they bring joy, then you remember and move on something to look forward to..birthdays, anniversaries, there are reasons we have such things. But when you come from nothing, you have nothing and it takes alot to build it up to something.  Can you dig it?  Sometimes you gotta say: Life is hard, you got the crap end of the stick, but here, heres a spot you can work with and make something out of...And once the good feelings get going that kinetic energy will keep on, of course you'll need checks and balances like police and religion and so on ... do you feel me boston or what?
     
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    Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings?

    CCTV
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from agulhas. Show agulhas's posts

    Re: What's the answer to stop the shootings?

    Make it much, much harder to buy guns.  Just like in the UK.
    Stopped the shootings ... but then the watch knife crime soar.
    Face it, if someone wants to do harm then they will - it's not about the gun (or knife) but the human intent.

    Whoever started this post is asking the wrong question.  The true question is 'how do you stop somebody wanting to kill someone'?

    Hmmm .......
     

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