Neda

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from GrimFandango. Show GrimFandango's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]CNN just showed a video of a woman named Neda that was shot thru the heart by the goons in Iran. Her eyes rolled back, blood rushed from her nose and mouth, and she died in her father's arms. Neda and her death has become a rallying point for the Iranian opposition. Pray for the people of Iran.
    Posted by Kirk6[/QUOTE]

    Where are the videos of the women and little children shot and blown to bits in Palestine?  How many little Palestinian girls died with blood gushing in their father's arms, while snipers prevented them from going for medical attention, and prevented medics from going in?

    The propaganda we are being fed outstrips anything the old Pravda ever dished out.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]Where are the videos of the women and little children shot and blown to bits in Palestine?  How many little Palestinian girls died with blood gushing in their father's arms, while snipers prevented them from going for medical attention, and prevented medics from going in? The propaganda we are being fed outstrips anything the old Pravda ever dished out.
    Posted by GrimFandango[/QUOTE]

    A different story.   There is no shortage of pain out there.  Iran is happening now.
     
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    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]A different story.   There is no shortage of pain out there.  Iran is happening now.
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]

    No Hoppy, you miss the point - purposefully!

    The point is the administration and their war hawk allies - (guess who I mean), want to accentuate the violence against innocent civilians in Iran, because they want your blessing when they finally decide to attack Iran. 

    Just like the BS fed us in the run-up to the Iraq war - remember the sobbing stories about tiny babies being yanked out of incubators and thrown on the hospital floor by the Iraqi's?  A complete fabrication with absolutely no basis in fact - but very effect propaganda, don't you think?

    And the very same allies of the administration - (you know who I'm talking about) - don't want you to hear of the suffering and death inflicted on the innocent civilians of Palestine - wonder why that is?

    It proves the Media is doing the bidding of the administration, and it's allies, (yeah those guys), dosen't it?

    Oh, and here's a question for you: How many Iranians have been murdered, vs. how many Palestinians?  Yeah, you don't want to go there, do you?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheMovieFan. Show TheMovieFan's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]CNN just showed a video of a woman named Neda that was shot thru the heart by the goons in Iran. Her eyes rolled back, blood rushed from her nose and mouth, and she died in her father's arms. Neda and her death has become a rallying point for the Iranian opposition. Pray for the people of Iran.
    Posted by Kirk6[/QUOTE]

    There is a bonus to her death and these protests.  They can be exploited here in the U.S. for selfish political reasons by people who don't give a damn who is killed in Iran.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]No Hoppy, you miss the point - purposefully ! The point is the administration and their war hawk allies - (guess who I mean), want to accentuate the violence against innocent civilians in Iran , because they want your blessing when they finally decide to attack Iran.  Just like the BS fed us in the run-up to the Iraq war - remember the sobbing stories about tiny babies being yanked out of incubators and thrown on the hospital floor by the Iraqi's?  A complete fabrication with absolutely no basis in fact - but very effect propaganda, don't you think? And the very same allies of the administration - (you know who I'm talking about) - don't want you to hear of the suffering and death inflicted on the innocent civilians of Palestine - wonder why that is? It proves the Media is doing the bidding of the administration, and it's allies, (yeah those guys), dosen't it? Oh, and here's a question for you: How many Iranians have been murdered, vs. how many Palestinians?  Yeah, you don't want to go there, do you?
    Posted by GrimFandango[/QUOTE]

    Sorry Grim. I do see the points (note the plural) being made.  The problem is you see everything as part of a web of some vague, all consuming conspiracy.  That is a simplistic version of history that denies its inherent complexity.  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pymus. Show Pymus's posts

    Re: Neda

    Good point Movie Fan. My mind goes back to the past 30 years of American flag burning and stomping and chanting in the streets after 9/11.

    Boy - those Iranians are in a real tough spot aren’t they!

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dexter67. Show dexter67's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]There is a bonus to her death and these protests.  They can be exploited here in the U.S. for selfish political reasons by people who don't give a damn who is killed in Iran.
    Posted by TheMovieFan[/QUOTE]

    To play devils advocate.....Do the people of Iran give a damn who is killed in the US?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from brat13. Show brat13's posts

    Re: Neda

    Interesting that Fox News refused to air the video this morning because of it's disturbing content. I don't know if they showed it over the weekend.
     
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    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]To play devils advocate.....Do the people of Iran give a damn who is killed in the US?
    Posted by dexter67[/QUOTE]

    Dex, I think many do. Some don't. Generally they like the US. Their gov. is another story.
    Many fled the country during the revolution and their families in Iran have been living in fear for the last 30 years. Of all the countries in the Middle East, Iran is the one that could be converted to a Democracy and become an American friend and allie. The Theocracy is terrified of the young, under 35 crowd that is VERY educated and believes in many of the same things we in the west do. If you look at the protests , they are about women's rights and looser Islamic controls.
     
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    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]Pray for the people of Iran? Why? Just so they can have another regime that exports violence and genocide? Do the revolutionaries support a peace pact with Israel? Will they stop their attempts to build a nuclear weapon even though Israel has one? Will the revolutionaries stop exporting weapons and money to Iraq so that the Shia can kill Sunnis and Americans? I'll hold my prayers until they prove themselves different than most of the rest of the Islamic world.
    Posted by Newtster[/QUOTE]

    You have to admit that the opposition to the current regime would be more moderate in its policies.  Without knowing all details as to how that might evolve, that factor has to count for something.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dexter67. Show dexter67's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]Dex, I think many do. Some don't. Generally they like the US. Their gov. is another story. Many fled the country during the revolution and their families in Iran have been living in fear for the last 30 years. Of all the countries in the Middle East, Iran is the one that could be converted to a Democracy and become an American friend and allie. The Theocracy is terrified of the young, under 35 crowd that is VERY educated and believes in many of the same things we in the west do. If you look at the protests , they are about women's rights and looser Islamic controls.
    Posted by brat13[/QUOTE]

    Admittedly I don't know enough about Iran but if what you say is true then that certainly is encouraging.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheMovieFan. Show TheMovieFan's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]To play devils advocate.....Do the people of Iran give a damn who is killed in the US?
    Posted by dexter67[/QUOTE]

    Actually, they do.  After 9/11 there were candle light vigils in Iran in memory of the victims of those attacks.

    http://www.time.com/time/europe/photoessays/vigil/3.html
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheMovieFan. Show TheMovieFan's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]Dex, I think many do. Some don't. Generally they like the US. Their gov. is another story. Many fled the country during the revolution and their families in Iran have been living in fear for the last 30 years. Of all the countries in the Middle East, Iran is the one that could be converted to a Democracy and become an American friend and allie. The Theocracy is terrified of the young, under 35 crowd that is VERY educated and believes in many of the same things we in the west do. If you look at the protests , they are about women's rights and looser Islamic controls.
    Posted by brat13[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for spreading that information.  I already knew that but it can help educate others around here.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from DevilinBoston. Show DevilinBoston's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]Where are the videos of the women and little children shot and blown to bits in Palestine?  How many little Palestinian girls died with blood gushing in their father's arms, while snipers prevented them from going for medical attention, and prevented medics from going in? The propaganda we are being fed outstrips anything the old Pravda ever dished out.
    Posted by GrimFandango[/QUOTE]

    I presume you feel the same disdain for the suicide bombers that killed innocent Israelis, yes? 
     
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    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]I presume you feel the same disdain for the suicide bombers that killed innocent Israelis, yes? 
    Posted by DevilinBoston[/QUOTE]

    Shhhh!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Xaphius. Show Xaphius's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]Pray for the people of Iran? Why? Just so they can have another regime that exports violence and genocide? Do the revolutionaries support a peace pact with Israel? Will they stop their attempts to build a nuclear weapon even though Israel has one? Will the revolutionaries stop exporting weapons and money to Iraq so that the Shia can kill Sunnis and Americans? I'll hold my prayers until they prove themselves different than most of the rest of the Islamic world.
    Posted by Newtster[/QUOTE]


    The Persian peolpe are a more sophisticated lot, on average, than what you might think.  I understand your misgivings, but I very much DO think there is a healthy moderate crowd in Iran, who wants no part of a nuclear arms race, or war, with Israel - at all.

    I think it's inevitable that more countries will get nukes.  We let Israel have them, and we 'kinda-sorta' are responsible for the Pakistanis and the N.Koreans getting them, too.   I don't think we can play unending whack-a-mole, and just try to keep smacking down every country that tries to include itself in the unspoken 'mutually assured destruction' pact that comes along with having nuclear capability.

    Also, further complicating the issue, the nations of the Middle East are also well positioned to understand the coming oil crunch, and they'd be flat stupid not to develop nuclear power - just as stupid as we are for not having a bit more of it ourselves.....

    The best thing we can do to help the moderates in Iran, is to stop playing directly into the rhetoric of their loudmouth president - to stop driving voters into the arms of strong men, who always gain popularity when some great interloper starts meddling about in a nation's own affairs.... who can blame them?




     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ohhhhh-Bammy. Show Ohhhhh-Bammy's posts

    Re: Neda

    Kirkie,

    I appreciate your efforts to make her a martyr but she wasn't the brightest light bulb.

    If I lived in an oppressive military sexist Islamic state like Iran and was told not to demonstrate ... I might listen. She was a cutie though.
     
    Not sure Allah would hear prayers from swine like us.
    You might hold a different view but I say pray for America .. first.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from wallykent. Show wallykent's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]CNN just showed a video of a woman named Neda that was shot thru the heart by the goons in Iran. Her eyes rolled back, blood rushed from her nose and mouth, and she died in her father's arms. Neda and her death has become a rallying point for the Iranian opposition. Pray for the people of Iran.
    Posted by Kirk6[/QUOTE]

    It's 1953 all over again. The CIA proudly admits that it was responsible for the overthrow of the Mosadegh government. They did it by staging terror, like blowing up school buses full of kids, and passing out leaflets claiming Mosadegh was behind it.

    It's funny how the death of 1 Iranian woman is plastered across the US controlled media, when over 1 million Iraqis have been slaughtered with barely a mention.

    the US and UK are behind the violence once again. Probably, because Iran is now refusing to take our petro dollars. Bush lied about WMD's to attack Iraq as soon as they went away from he US petro dollar.

    This is disgusting war propaganda to get the sheople behind an attack on Iran.

    If you really care about Iran demand the US and UK stop their covert terror attacks over there.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ohhhhh-Bammy. Show Ohhhhh-Bammy's posts

    Re: Neda

    Geesh... Bush did it.

    I don't give a craap if your US/UK CIA (BS) conspiracy theory is true.
    I don't give a craap about Iran.

    Let the Arabs kill each other.. better than them killing us (or our allies).
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Xaphius. Show Xaphius's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]Geesh... Bush did it. I don't give a craap if your US/UK CIA (BS) conspiracy theory is true. I don't give a craap about Iran. Let the Arabs kill each other.. better than them killing us (or our allies).
    Posted by Ohhhhh-Bammy[/QUOTE]

    To be clear, the 1954 coup is not theoretical.

    Here's a link to documents about it at the

    National Security Archirves at GWU

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB28/


    I know a couple of folks who are old enough to remember the debacle that was the installation of the Shah very well - the family I know there had to flee once the Shah was toppled, and many were sent abroad, for fear of reprisals.  (Fortunately, they were not very important players, and they were spared anything too terrible.)


    Also, Iranians are much more Persian than Arab.  It sounds like me being snooty, but there really are important differences.

    That being said, overall, I agree that extricating ourselves from the region would be the best course of action - except, we have a little bitty problem with this stuff called "Oil", for now...and I can't see the folks who've been pushing to invade Iraq (for literally decades), suddenly backing off of their push. 

    If you check out Zbigniew Brzezinski's, "The Grand Chessboard", and then pause to consider his role as a top advisor to Obama, the overall gameplan is very clear.  This book is written in the matter of fact tenor of older history books, and it states quite plainly the geopolitical primacy of the Caspian Basin, and how this is because of oil and gas supplies.  It's chalk full of maps about how we will need t project force into the region, why, and a little bit of how.

    The Grand Chessboard
    http://www.takeoverworld.info/grandchessboard.html

    It's really not any different than what the Neo-Cons were blamed for concocting.  In fact, it is exactly the same plan, authored by exactly the same people...just mirror images of each other, on the left and right......who oddly enough, among them have an extremely high percentage of representation by groups such as the CFR and the Trilateral Commission. 

    Fun Cheney CFR Commet
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOAk-7F1EVU


    And it is exactly why Obamma decided to keep his energy policy meeting as secret as Cheney did.  We can not just expect the president to get on TV and say, "Here's the thing - we're running out of oil, and more people want more of the stuff, all over the world.  Everybody wants to live like us, but it may only be possible for us and a few others (who tend to look like us), to go on living anything like what we do now.  Now begins geopolitical musical chairs, and we intend to not be eliminated"


    Note of interest: Russia's energy future is looking extremely bright.  Well endowed with resources, and with not too many serious threats as neighbors.  The American designs, that led to the invasion of Iraq, and were forged in the spirit of cold-war competition with the soviets, are coming right back into play.  I suppose the wicked smaht guys already thought this thing through, and hence, the aggressive action.

    Russia is resource rich.  Hung like a Siberian Stallion.  And they're making noises now about alternate reserve currencies - even suggesting gold....  If he with control over the most oil gets to decide, they might just someday get their wish...


    We still need to import the stuff.  And the Russian's backyard is still where the most proven reserves are.  If we get too cocky about having a right to it all, they and the Chinese, by matter of proximity and size, could make life in the 'Stans tough for us down the road.  We already lost one cock-fight in Georgia....




     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]It's 1953 all over again. The CIA proudly admits that it was responsible for the overthrow of the Mosadegh government. They did it by staging terror, like blowing up school buses full of kids, and passing out leaflets claiming Mosadegh was behind it. It's funny how the death of 1 Iranian woman is plastered across the US controlled media, when over 1 million Iraqis have been slaughtered with barely a mention. the US and UK are behind the violence once again. Probably, because Iran is now refusing to take our petro dollars. Bush lied about WMD's to attack Iraq as soon as they went away from he US petro dollar. This is disgusting war propaganda to get the sheople behind an attack on Iran. If you really care about Iran demand the US and UK stop their covert terror attacks over there.
    Posted by wallykent[/QUOTE]

    Was the C.I.A. also responsible for the one man confronting the tank in Tianamen Square?   How about John Brown at Harper's ferry?   Jesus and the crucifixion?   Death of all the dinosaurs?  When does this conspiracy ever end???? 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Xaphius. Show Xaphius's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]Was the C.I.A. also responsible for the one man confronting the tank in Tianamen Square?   How about John Brown at Harper's ferry?   Jesus and the crucifixion?   Death of all the dinosaurs?  When does this conspiracy ever end???? 
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]

    To be fair, this IS Iran we're still talking about, and the first coup, IS a matter of record.

    It would be crazy to think we WEREN'T trying to use means short of war - such as tampering with elections, and fomenting discontent, which are both standard moves now- to achieve change in Iran. 

    Theoretically, this would even be a case of a good use - if they didn't have such a poor track record, and such an established mistrust with the everyday people of Iran.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Neda

    [QUOTE]To be fair, this IS Iran we're still talking about, and the first coup, IS a matter of record. It would be crazy to think we WEREN'T trying to use means short of war - such as tampering with elections, and fomenting discontent, which are both standard moves now- to achieve change in Iran.  Theoretically, this would even be a case of a good use - if they didn't have such a poor track record, and such an established mistrust with the everyday people of Iran.
    Posted by Xaphius[/QUOTE]

    The discontent in the streets is obvious.  This is clearly not a manufactured event by the C.I.A. (as if we have much influence after 1979 revolution).
    Sheepy is a one trick pony: all facts are squeezed into his pathetic global elite conspiracy.  I am reminded of having dinner with a member the American Communist Party in the 1980s.  When asked about the Solidarity workers' protest movement, he dismissed it as a C.I.A. plot.  Sure.  The more things change...   Ideologues don't really think.
     

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