The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mhc90. Show mhc90's posts

    Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting

    I don't know what this shooter's motives may have been.  He certainly seems to have targeted Rep. Giffords, so it appears to be political.  The right, especially Sarah Palin, have used violent metaphors to express their plan of attack.  ("In the crosshairs", "Don't retreat, reload", "American values under attack"). If it is determined that this man's motives were to kill Rep. Giffords because of her political views, or specifically her vote on healthcare, then folks like Palin should be held accountable for inciting people to violence.  If he's just paranoid and saw the representative as part of the government that's out to get him, the right isn't responsible for that. 

    It's a horrible sad incident, my heart goes out to all affected by this needless violence.  Worst of all may be the 9 year old girl killed--she's my niece's age.  So sad!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobinVa. Show BobinVa's posts

    Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting

    "The right, especially Sarah Palin, have used violent metaphors to express their plan of attack.  ("In the crosshairs", "Don't retreat, reload", "American values under attack")."

    The use of the term 'target' for elections has long been used by both parties. The terminology is concerning defeat in an election, and targeted candidates.  The Left has used the same terminology, it is harmless.
    The vicious lies, smears  and attacks on Sarah Palin are beyond the pale.
    There is zero evidence the motive of this nut had anything to do with politics.
    The information released showed this nut hated religion, smoked pot, and was a leftist. So by the warped views of mhc, we should blame....Democrats.
     
    The Left has used a murder for political advantage, to lie and smear opponents. A blood libel, nothng less.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting

    In Response to Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting:
    [QUOTE]"The right, especially Sarah Palin, have used violent metaphors to express their plan of attack.  ("In the crosshairs", "Don't retreat, reload", "American values under attack")." The use of the term 'target' for elections has long been used by both parties. The terminology is concerning defeat in an election, and targeted candidates.  The Left has used the same terminology, it is harmless. The vicious lies, smears  and attacks on Sarah Palin are beyond the pale. There is zero evidence the motive of this nut had anything to do with politics. The information released showed this nut hated religion, smoked pot, and was a leftist. So by the warped views of mhc, we should blame....Democrats.   The Left has used a murder for political advantage, to lie and smear opponents. A blood libel, nothng less.
    Posted by BobinVa[/QUOTE]  BOBBYV....WELL PUT.... THIS COULD BE THE RESULT OF 30 YEARS OF THE LIB/LEFT WATERING DOWN OF AMERICA. (NOW I SHOULD PREPARE MYSELF TO BE ATTACKED AS A "HATER") WHEN IN FACT ALOT OF PEOPLE SAW THIS COMING (THE SHOOTER) AND DID NOTHING !!  AS DAD WOULD SAY..... "SON, THE ARMY WON'T TAKE YOU, AND BTW, HOW DID YOU GET THROWN OUT OF A COMMUNITY COLLEGE"?? 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting

    In Response to TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting:
    [QUOTE]I'm horrified and saddened by this.  What do you all think?  Is this a result (at least in part) of just how heated -- even outright nasty -- the political divide and rhetoric has become? I think that may be one factor.  My personal opinion is that American culture has become increasingly unkind and violent over the past 20 years.  This is evidenced by everything from school bullying to Bernie Madoff.  We've even seen internet sites with names and addresses -- and target marks -- putting political leaders, doctors, and other public figures at risk.  Now this.  Am I right, or am I overreacting?  How do we calm all of this down?  Too late?
    Posted by Maldenlady[/QUOTE]

    I think you are overreacting.  This is a lone wacko, not part of the vast right wind conspiracy trying to shut down debate.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from WriterXT. Show WriterXT's posts

    Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting


    Tom Brokaw this morning on MSNBC and Howard Kurtz on CNN yesterday mentioned the quick blame game that's been played since the shooting occured early Saturday afternoon.

    If anyone started it.  It was Keith Olberman that night around 8/10pm.
    It didn't take him long on a night of tragedy involving gun violence to mention Sarah Palin's name and the supposed controversial political advertisement that used mini icons of crosshairs.


    You know something.  You can be a Keith Olberman who shoots his ugly big mouth about Sarah Palin but conveniently forget to mention someone who actually fired a weapon as part of his lame senate campaign.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIJORBRpOPM


    And people wonder why we're never going to come together and be civil. 
    Politics is a grudge match to the death.   Literally.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mhc90. Show mhc90's posts

    Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting

    BobinVA, we know you're in love with Sarah Palin.  But to use the word "target" is very different from using terms like "reload" and "in the cross hairs", and you're smart enough to know that.  That said, this guy is most likely a paranoid, mentally ill loner who thinks the government is watching his every move, and shot a Congresswoman because the opportunity came up.   When will you admit the right isn't always correct?  Oh, wait, never.

    It's one possible motive, can you admit that? The guy may be so obsessed with hatred of Obama that he shot someone Sarah Palin and others put in their "crosshairs".  And Palin used pictures.

    Speaking of smears, Palin isn't the only target--have you heard what's been said about the President in the last 2 years?  We know you love her, and think she's qualified to be President, but you're in a minority there.  Get past your personal feelings on this one and admit there's a small chance that such language could influence someone who wasn't in their right mind to start with to attack in this way.   
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mhc90. Show mhc90's posts

    Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting

    BobinVA, should have added, could you tell me where you got the information that the shooter is a "leftist"?  From what I've heard he's a generally paranoid government hater. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting

    In Response to Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting:
    [QUOTE]BobinVA, we know you're in love with Sarah Palin.  But to use the word "target" is very different from using terms like "reload" and "in the cross hairs", and you're smart enough to know that.  That said, this guy is most likely a paranoid, mentally ill loner who thinks the government is watching his every move, and shot a Congresswoman because the opportunity came up.   When will you admit the right isn't always correct?  Oh, wait, never. It's one possible motive, can you admit that? The guy may be so obsessed with hatred of Obama that he shot someone Sarah Palin and others put in their "crosshairs".  And Palin used pictures. Speaking of smears, Palin isn't the only target--have you heard what's been said about the President in the last 2 years?  We know you love her, and think she's qualified to be President, but you're in a minority there.  Get past your personal feelings on this one and admit there's a small chance that such language could influence someone who wasn't in their right mind to start with to attack in this way.   
    Posted by mhc90[/QUOTE]


    I heard Obam said something like if his opponent brings a knife, he will bring a gun.  Is that what you are referring to?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting

    In Response to Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting : I heard Obam said something like if his opponent brings a knife, he will bring a gun.  Is that what you are referring to?
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]SKEETER, THATS DIFFERENT.  IT'S OK FOR THE LEFT/LIBS TO SAY WHAT THEY WANT WHILE THE REST OF US ARE TO REMAIN  P C  !!!!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting

    In Response to Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting : SKEETER, THATS DIFFERENT.  IT'S OK FOR THE LEFT/LIBS TO SAY WHAT THEY WANT WHILE THE REST OF US ARE TO REMAIN  P C  !!!!
    Posted by Bill-806[/QUOTE]

    Obama was just illustrating a point...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mhc90. Show mhc90's posts

    Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting

    Skeeter, show me the quote.  In context.  Because the context matters.  Showing a map with crosshairs over various Democratic-held districts and urging supporters to "reload" is in the context of an election.  It's rhetoric.  Question is, did it influence this guy. He's clearly some sort of extremeist, I just can't figure out what kind--he's not acting like a  tea partier, could be a neo-nazi type?  Personally, I'd go with mentally ill and delusional about the government, not call him one thing or another.

    That said, the tone of the last election was one that frequently used violent imagery not about the wars, but about the need to "take back" America. Apparently to 1785.  Who knows if parts of that message didn't influence this guy.  A Democratic congresswoman was shot.  Who is the media going to look at? The Democrats? I don't think so!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Johnodog. Show Johnodog's posts

    Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting

    * Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
    ** Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
    ** Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
    ** Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
    ** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose as s to kick.
    ** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat
    ** Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
    ** Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
    ** Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Johnodog. Show Johnodog's posts

    Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting

    A classmate of the man accused of shooting Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords this morning describes him as "left wing" and a "pot head" in a series of posts on Twitter this afternoon.

    Caitie Parker did not immediately respond to our request for an interview, but her "tweets" in the hours after the shooting paint a picture of Jared Loughner as a substance-abusing loner who had met Giffords before the shooting. She says, Loughner described the congresswoman as "stupid and unintelligent."

    We've confirmed that Parker and Loughner went to school together at Mountain View High School in Tucson and that both attended Pima Community College, so her claims of knowing Loughner seem to be legit.

    Parker "tweets" that she and Loughner were in the band together and were friends until 2007 when he became "reclusive" after getting alcohol poisoning and dropping out of college.

    She describes him as "quite liberal" and as a "political radical."
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting

    In Response to Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting:
    [QUOTE]A classmate of the man accused of shooting Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords this morning describes him as "left wing" and a "pot head" in a series of posts on Twitter this afternoon. Caitie Parker did not immediately respond to our request for an interview, but her "tweets" in the hours after the shooting paint a picture of Jared Loughner as a substance-abusing loner who had met Giffords before the shooting. She says, Loughner described the congresswoman as "stupid and unintelligent." We've confirmed that Parker and Loughner went to school together at Mountain View High School in Tucson and that both attended Pima Community College, so her claims of knowing Loughner seem to be legit. Parker "tweets" that she and Loughner were in the band together and were friends until 2007 when he became "reclusive" after getting alcohol poisoning and dropping out of college. She describes him as "quite liberal" and as a "political radical."
    Posted by Johnodog[/QUOTE]

    More important than his alleged political leanings (one of his favorite books is Mein Kampf. hardly a liberal bestseller) is the fact that he appears to be a deluded homicidal killer.  Focus on that fact and avoid the nasty political barbs that already are too prevalent today. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Johnodog. Show Johnodog's posts

    Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting

    More important than his alleged political leanings (one of his favorite books is Mein Kampf. hardly a liberal bestseller) is the fact that he appears to be a deluded homicidal killer.  Focus on that fact and avoid the nasty political barbs that already are too prevalent today.


    Actually his reading list included the communist manifesto( hardly a rightwing bestseller) and indeed hitler was a national socialist.
     I did avoid the nasty barbs by sticking to facts without comment. How about you take your own advice? and of course none of these themes reflects the cause of the shooting. A mentally unstable jerk.
     It has been the liberals who have tried to make this a cheap politcal victory and has provided the majority of barbs and incivility. My post were rebuttals showing the calousness of their intent.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting

    Tragedy upon tragedy.

    This thread apparently attracted a bunch of the BDC Ultra-Con loonies from Politics:General, who came here for the purpose of blaming "liberals" for the terrible event and also to blame "liberals" for conservative leaders' violent political discourse.

    Oh, but Obama once said "fight", so that means we can insinuate murder!
    _________________________________________________________________

    That said, this does not presently appear to be a politically motivated shooting.

    1.  He is a liberal, so he couldn't have been motivated by "crosshairs" and other conservative insinuations of murder, unless perhaps he thought she was not liberal enough.

    2.  He is crazy:

    "A series of short videos posted on the Internet, apparently by Mr. Loughner, consist of changing blocs of text that are largely rambling and incoherent. Many take the form of stating a premise and then a logical conclusion that would follow from it.

    They speak of being a “conscience dreamer”; becoming a treasurer of a new currency; controlling “English grammar structure”; mentioned brainwashing and suggested that he believed he had powers of mind control.

    “In conclusion, my ambition — is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming!” he wrote in one video, which was uploaded to YouTube on Dec. 15.

    Still, some strands of recognizable political thought are woven among the more incoherent writings. Another video, for example, says debts should only be paid in currency that is backed by gold and silver"

     

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09shooter.html?pagewanted=2&sq=dreamer&st=cse&scp=1

     

    That's Grimfandango terroritory.

    _______________________________________________________________

     

     

    That said... 

     

    While I don't expect any BDC cons to come close to admitting it to themselves, it is unavoidably true that the right's political rhetoric has been FAR more violent, seccessionist, and militant than anything ascribed to liberals - even to nutjobs like Olbermann. 

    You're the guys talking about fighting invasions, defending 'attacks', and putting Democrats in crosshairs....  then reloading.

     



     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting


    [QUOTE]
    The vicious lies, smears  and attacks on Sarah Palin are beyond the pale.
    Posted by BobinVa[/QUOTE]

    Lies?  Smears?  Such as? 

    Did she or did she not use terms like:  "In the crosshairs", "Don't retreat, reload", "American values under attack."




    Attacks, sure.  Her public persona is that of a highly agitated airhead, ignorant but rife with hitherto suppressed violent urges. 

    She reads so many newspapers she can't name any, and loves ALL the founders so much she can't name a single one she likes.  Her publicists can't even come up with good excuses for it.  But doncha' know, she can sometimes see Russia!


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Johnodog. Show Johnodog's posts

    Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting

    I guess Nina Totenburg from NPR never wished death on anyone? Honest Liberals?
    if we could just return to the civility of Hamilton and Burr.LOL
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Johnodog. Show Johnodog's posts

    Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting

    But doncha' know, she can sometimes see Russia!

    You CAN see Russia from parts of Alaska..which is what she said.
    Of course Tina Fey...the actress, said " I can see Russia from my House" as a way of belittling Gov Palin. Liberals always confuse the two.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting

    In Response to Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting:
    [QUOTE]Skeeter, show me the quote.  In context.  Because the context matters.  Showing a map with crosshairs over various Democratic-held districts and urging supporters to "reload" is in the context of an election.  It's rhetoric.  Question is, did it influence this guy. He's clearly some sort of extremeist, I just can't figure out what kind--he's not acting like a  tea partier, could be a neo-nazi type?  Personally, I'd go with mentally ill and delusional about the government, not call him one thing or another. That said, the tone of the last election was one that frequently used violent imagery not about the wars, but about the need to "take back" America. Apparently to 1785.  Who knows if parts of that message didn't influence this guy.  A Democratic congresswoman was shot.  Who is the media going to look at? The Democrats? I don't think so!
    Posted by mhc90[/QUOTE]


    Johndog provided the quote and several others.  The context is politics.  Do you think the context is different than Palin's references?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting

    In Response to Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting : More important than his alleged political leanings (one of his favorite books is Mein Kampf. hardly a liberal bestseller) is the fact that he appears to be a deluded homicidal killer.  Focus on that fact and avoid the nasty political barbs that already are too prevalent today. 
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]

    Mein Kapmf is absolutely a liberal book, promoting a socialist agenda.  Give it a look see.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from AlleyCatBruin. Show AlleyCatBruin's posts

    Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting

    In Response to Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting:
    [QUOTE]"The right, especially Sarah Palin, have used violent metaphors to express their plan of attack.  ("In the crosshairs", "Don't retreat, reload", "American values under attack")." The use of the term 'target' for elections has long been used by both parties. The terminology is concerning defeat in an election, and targeted candidates.  The Left has used the same terminology, it is harmless. The vicious lies, smears  and attacks on Sarah Palin are beyond the pale. There is zero evidence the motive of this nut had anything to do with politics. The information released showed this nut hated religion, smoked pot, and was a leftist. So by the warped views of mhc, we should blame....Democrats.   The Left has used a murder for political advantage, to lie and smear opponents. A blood libel, nothng less.
    Posted by BobinVa[/QUOTE]
    ----
    Bob, why don't you move to where ever it is that Crosshairs Sarah is currently living so you can be closer to her? After all, its clear that you are in love with her. Otherwise, you would not be defending the indefensible.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PragmaticAmerican. Show PragmaticAmerican's posts

    Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting

    In Response to Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting:
    [QUOTE]...it to themselves, it is unavoidably true that the right's political rhetoric has been FAR more violent, seccessionist, and militant than anything ascribed to liberals...
    Posted by WhatIsItNow[/QUOTE]

    A funny thing about that...when we see rioting, property damage, people wearing masks and throwing rocks at the police - say at any G20 meeting - they're always violently on the Left.  Always.

    So your claim is Malarky.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PragmaticAmerican. Show PragmaticAmerican's posts

    Re: The Gabrielle Giffords Shooting

    Just to correct the record - while some are all flipping out over Palin's "Crosshair" map - here's one the Democrat Party used frequently for the last election cycle:




    You DO notice the symbols are all Bullseyes, yes?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from brat13. Show brat13's posts

    Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting

    In Response to Re: TheGabrielle Giffords Shooting:
    [QUOTE]BobinVA, we know you're in love with Sarah Palin.  But to use the word "target" is very different from using terms like "reload" and "in the cross hairs", and you're smart enough to know that.  That said, this guy is most likely a paranoid, mentally ill loner who thinks the government is watching his every move, and shot a Congresswoman because the opportunity came up.   When will you admit the right isn't always correct?  Oh, wait, never. It's one possible motive, can you admit that? The guy may be so obsessed with hatred of Obama that he shot someone Sarah Palin and others put in their "crosshairs".  And Palin used pictures. Speaking of smears, Palin isn't the only target--have you heard what's been said about the President in the last 2 years?  We know you love her, and think she's qualified to be President, but you're in a minority there.  Get past your personal feelings on this one and admit there's a small chance that such language could influence someone who wasn't in their right mind to start with to attack in this way.   
    Posted by mhc90[/QUOTE]
    90, in 2006 the DLC (Democrat Leadership Council) used basically the same imagery as Palin did... Funny how Chris Matthews didn't think that was bad...  And remember it was O who asked the Latino community to reward their friends and punish their ENEMIES...

    http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171
     

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