The Wisconsin Union Protests

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    The Wisconsin Union Protests

    http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/usa/news/article_1620444.php/Wisconsin-protests-escalate-over-public-worker-rights

    Forget what the governor says. Forget what the protesters say.

    Just focus on one thing.  Broke.

    When you're broke, there is no argument.  There is no negotiation.
    You start at zero and you end at zero.

    Instead of slinging mud; walking off the job and tossing criticism at each other like volleyballs over a net.  Each side might want to look at the bigger picture.

    For example 20% unemployment ( the real rate )

    China, Japan, Finland, Canada, New Zealand, Belgium all rank higher in education above The US.  in reading, math and science.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading

    Something tells me teachers in those countries spend more time in the classroom where they belong than out on a picket line screaming about money and benefits.

    And we wonder why we're flushing ourselves down the proverbial toilet.

     One of the few things we still make in America.

    Yay for us. Undecided
     
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    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    Do you think that any of the countries you name are as anti-union as the folks in Wisconsin?  I would wager it is quite the reverse.  The "Big Picture" you mention involves concessions on BOTH sides, not the destruction of the union movement. 

    But what do you care about unions, you don't even have employment.  Jealousy.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]Do you think that any of the countries you name are as anti-union as the folks in Wisconsin?  I would wager it is quite the reverse.  The "Big Picture" you mention involves concessions on BOTH sides, not the destruction of the union movement.  But what do you care about unions, you don't even have employment.  Jealousy.
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]

    You cannot have a government run by unions and remain a free society.  The union or the people will win out, but they cannot coexist.  right now, we have atwo teir society:  Theose inthe government unions, and those paying their salaries.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from topaz978. Show topaz978's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    Hey XT,
    So far from wrong. It is a classic lockout. Management declares that they do not care that you are trained and make the buisness work every day. They just want to cut your salary by 1/4. You either stand or go somewhere else. The toilet flush comes from the parents and students not having an efficient service anymore. Eventually the flush will be heard by the elected officials at the polls.
     The state could hire new workers to replace them. In the middle of the year. Then spend a lot of time training and monitoring the new workers to be sure they are not child molesters. That takes a lot of high priced outside contractors.
     The state has the option to replace the work force. But will it save money? As opposed to talking to the well trained professionals they have now? Seems to me that every employer who could not actually use nightsticks and guns to force the workers back to work always went to the table and beg the workforce back. So let the gov lock them out. Every time the state or buisness had to negociate. Even Regan with the air traffic controllers had to come to the table. In fact he had to hire so many retirees to train(at a very nice salary) new controllers that the money spent exceeded the traffic controllers salary requests. No money saved just political postureing.
     
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    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests : You cannot have a government run by unions and remain a free society.  The union or the people will win out, but they cannot coexist.  right now, we have atwo teir society:  Theose inthe government unions, and those paying their salaries.
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]

    How on earth did the unions get to the position of running the country?  They don't.  Why do you have a problem with free people organizing together to have a better life?  That would seem to be the essence of democracy.  This is just in economics not politics.  But you like to define freedom on your terms only. 
     
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    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests : How on earth did the unions get to the position of running the country?  They don't.  Why do you have a problem with free people organizing together to have a better life?  That would seem to be the essence of democracy.  This is just in economics not politics.  But you like to define freedom on your terms only. 
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]

    'Free people organizing together to have a better life?' Isn't that how the labor union movement started?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests : How on earth did the unions get to the position of running the country?  They don't.  Why do you have a problem with free people organizing together to have a better life?  That would seem to be the essence of democracy.  This is just in economics not politics.  But you like to define freedom on your terms only. 
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]

    The unions seem to be doing a pretty good job of holding a gun to the head of the people of wisconsin, so much for organizing for a better life.  While we are on the subject of organizing:  unions are by definition anti-freedom, nothing more than a protection racket.  Pay the union, they break some legs to get you more money.

    I don't have any problem with private unions, as long as it is a right to work state.  Forcing union membership is just plain evil.  Nothing more than a protection racket.

    This is not the economy or country where unions started, so spare me your waxing nostalgically about unions of the past.  Today, the public union are controlling large swaths of government, and are part of the problem.  They need to be excised form government.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from DWR1. Show DWR1's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    End of the Day
    The Pension system is a Pyramid Sceme where the next generation is either going to have to pay big time in taxes or the retirees are going to end up with nothing. Dont fool yourselves in most states these deals are beyond what anyone in the private sector could ever get their own 401k's to reach these level.  People earning 80% of their last 3 years avg pay or payments reaching from $100,000 to $300,000 annually, Come On REALLY  How can the public afford this .  Union Leaders are sucking the country dry and really dont care about the future provided they get the cash now and kick the can down the road again and again. Our Country cant survive like this. The wealth built up is from WW11 to 1980 and has been being mortgaged and spent ever since. The only way out is to stop spending and push business to lead in the world with trade.  Go USA  If we are to remain as the Leader in Life Style and Opportunity and a Strong Democracy fending off any foreign influence we need to face the piper and its the Top Feeders in these Unions that are the ones that will kill the dream of the shinning city where everyone has opportunity and the right to all the dreams the US Constitution and our Founding fathers gave us when it all started here in America.
    Even the cuts in the WI. benefits will still be 40%-50% better than any program in the private sector.  You choose where you work. No one is forcing people to take these awesome jobs with un-realistic benefits that are sending the whole country into a third world nation with debt that is beyond belief. 
    The Revolution of stop spending is here and what America needs to remain FREE!!!!!!!!!!!! God Bless America and God Bless Our Citizens   
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from WhatIsItNow. Show WhatIsItNow's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests : You cannot have a government run by unions and remain a free society.  The union or the people will win out, but they cannot coexist.  right now, we have atwo teir society:  Theose inthe government unions, and those paying their salaries.
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]

    Skeeter, does every argument you make have to be crammed into the format "X vs. The People"?

    It doesn't convince.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]Do you think that any of the countries you name are as anti-union as the folks in Wisconsin?  I would wager it is quite the reverse.  The "Big Picture" you mention involves concessions on BOTH sides, not the destruction of the union movement.  But what do you care about unions, you don't even have employment.  Jealousy.
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]REUBY  (DON'T TAKE YOUR LOVE TO TOWN)  JUST A THOUGHT, HAVE NOT SEEN MANY UNIONS GIVE ANYTHING BACK, PERIOD !!!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests : How on earth did the unions get to the position of running the country?  They don't.  Why do you have a problem with free people organizing together to have a better life?  That would seem to be the essence of democracy.  This is just in economics not politics.  But you like to define freedom on your terms only. 
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE] REUBY, PLEASE.........  THE "BIG O" IS IN BED WITH THE UNIONS AND ARE JOINED AT THE HIP !!!!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests : Skeeter, does every argument you make have to be crammed into the format "X vs. The People"? It doesn't convince.
    Posted by WhatIsItNow[/QUOTE]

    that's becasue you lack the ability to think and change your mind when presented with new facts.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from topaz978. Show topaz978's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests : that's becasue you lack the ability to think and change your mind when presented with new facts.
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]

    It is so anti democracy that the freedom of association is in the bill of rights also known as the first ten amendments to the constitution. Unions do not hold a gun. They hold the power of free people joining together to make things better for themselves. The wisconsin employers are not negotiating and this is called a lock out.  The point is without the freedom to join a group like the republican or democratic party or the tea party we will have a sham democracy. It is an easy step from the state failing to recognize a group of employees to failing to recognise a group of voters. It is just a small step to say they will not let you on the ballot unless you are 2/3 majority as a group.  It has been done.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests : It is so anti democracy that the freedom of association is in the bill of rights also known as the first ten amendments to the constitution. Unions do not hold a gun. They hold the power of free people joining together to make things better for themselves. The wisconsin employers are not negotiating and this is called a lock out.  The point is without the freedom to join a group like the republican or democratic party or the tea party we will have a sham democracy. It is an easy step from the state failing to recognize a group of employees to failing to recognise a group of voters. It is just a small step to say they will not let you on the ballot unless you are 2/3 majority as a group.  It has been done.
    Posted by topaz978[/QUOTE]

    Everything changes when it comes to government workers.  The government must operate:  it is an imperative.  It is part of the grand bargain that allows the government to raise taxes.  It goes to the core of the legitimacy of government.

    The people of Wisconsin held an election.  The positions the unions are hold lost that election.  The unions and the democrat lawmakers are acting willfully and illegally, preventing the lawfull will of the people to be enacted.

    The unions are acting outside the law and the constitution.
     
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    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests


    If unions were as free as some people believe it is; then we wouldn't have this:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFeUhSlHiUQ
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests : It is so anti democracy that the freedom of association is in the bill of rights also known as the first ten amendments to the constitution. Unions do not hold a gun. They hold the power of free people joining together to make things better for themselves. The wisconsin employers are not negotiating and this is called a lock out.  The point is without the freedom to join a group like the republican or democratic party or the tea party we will have a sham democracy. It is an easy step from the state failing to recognize a group of employees to failing to recognise a group of voters. It is just a small step to say they will not let you on the ballot unless you are 2/3 majority as a group.  It has been done.
    Posted by topaz978[/QUOTE]

    How on Earth do you get unions and their democrat co-conspirators holding up the state of Wisconsin as in the bill of rights?

    So, RIGHT NOW, the unions and the democrats are DOING what you claim is the moral hazard of moving forward with the democratic process, and somehow you see the risk to voters, who are currently being held up?




     
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    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests : How on earth did the unions get to the position of running the country?  They don't.  Why do you have a problem with free people organizing together to have a better life?  That would seem to be the essence of democracy.  This is just in economics not politics.  But you like to define freedom on your terms only. 
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]

    When a public union walks off the job, the needs of the government, i.e. you and I, are not being met,  This is why public unions are an anathema to us all.

    Private unions, don't like them, but as long as you have the right to work and not be part of a union, that's fair.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]If unions were as free as some people believe it is; then we wouldn't have this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFeUhSlHiUQ
    Posted by WriterXT[/QUOTE]

    Yep.  The progressives don't want to acknowledge the illegal, thuggish tactics being used by the Obama administration and its favorite union.  More third world than freedom living, I think.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from undead. Show undead's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

     Is the total abandomnent of the democratic posts not enough to shut down the government? 

     Fact: There is no money left in the bank to pay the unions in WI.
     Fact: Voters voted in the person they wanted, which stated publicly throughout his campaign that he was not on the side of the unions.
     Fact: Said governor tries, not to shut down the union, but simply to get the union workers to, rightfully, pay their, ahem, fair share for their benefits, never mind that, compared to the private sector workers, the unions members are still getting everything for half the price.
     Fact: Democrats, in order to stop a vote, leave their post and cross state lines to abandon their post. 

     I don't know about the rest of you but the fact that state lines were crossed then this should be nothing short of a fed crime. They should be arrested, not welcomed back. If they do not want to take part in the government they were ellected to, then they should leave and not look back.
     It is one thing to stall in-house. It is quite another to conspire and abandon not only the people who voted you in, but the country you swore to protect.
     
     
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    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    The left wing whack jobs have all come out of the closet on Wisconsin. Quietly, the Federal Government is approving another bailout to help those hurt in the Bernie Madoff fiasco. Don’t worry. If you lose money, we’ll turn the printing press on and try to buy some more votes. Unions? Don’t worry, we’ll create more bailouts for you. Remember, you’ve already got waivers from Obamacare so we’ll have to subsidize your health insurance anyway. Dear Democrats, learn to take care of yourselves and stop asking for the government to spoon feed you. Those of us that pay for you are fed up.
     
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    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]About the budget shortfall: What Gov. Walker Won't Tell You www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Important" />Important www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Funny">Funny www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Typical">Typical www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Scary">Scary www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Outrageous">Outrageous www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Amazing">Amazing www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Innovative">Innovative www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Finally">Finally Read More:   Collective Bargaining  ,  Governor Scott Walker  ,  Union Busting  ,  Politics News SHARE THIS STORY 476 44 96 www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html " class="badge_v2_comments"> 447 Get Politics Alerts   Sign Up Submit this story There is a kernel of truth in Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's claim of a "budget shortfall" of $137 million. But Walker, a Republican, failed to tell the state that less than two weeks into his term as governor, he, with his swollen Republican majorities in the Wisconsin legislature, pushed through $117 million in tax breaks for business allies of the GOP. There is your crisis. The state Legislature's Legislative Fiscal Bureau -- Wisconsin's equivalent of the Congressional Budget Office and a refuge for professional expertise and nonpartisanship -- warned Walker and the legislature that the measure would create a budget gap. There is your shortfall -- and not one resulting from established public employee benefits. Before the tax giveaways, the fiscal agency predicted a surplus for the state. Now the governor has offered a proposal simple and clear in its intent, and patently dishonest. Walker wants state workers to contribute to their pension fund and is calling for an increase in their payments for medical insurance. Make no mistake: The governor's "budget repair bill" has little to do with a budget shortfall and everything to do with breaking unions, starting with public employees and then perhaps moving on to others as well. During his run for governor, Walker had substantial financial support from the Koch brothers, billionaire industrialists who have funded various anti-Obama, anti-science, and anti-national government movements. In short, they are opposed to anyone and anything that might diminish their exorbitant profits. And for the Kochs, destroying labor unions is in the top tier of their to-get-rid-of list. Walker's own hostility to labor unions is a touchstone of his prior political experience. He is out to realize his every long-held political fantasy, with the help of such allies as the National Association of Manufacturers; Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce; and the Chamber of Commerce. Ever since the 1930s, when national law recognized the right of workers to organize and bargain collectively, that gain has been under assault from right-wing ideologues and much of the business community. Public employees in Wisconsin, as elsewhere, do not have a recognized "right to strike." But they have a right to a union, with the power to negotiate wages and the conditions of work. That is Walker's real target, and after he deals with it perhaps he can move to make Wisconsin a "right-to-work" state, devoid of any protections for labor unions, just like Mississippi. Now we can understand Walker's mantra: "Wisconsin is open for business." What a "popular," appealing position! Everyone likes to complain about bureaucrats and teachers -- lazy, incompetent and, withal, overpaid. Never mind that studies portray a public work force earning 8 to 15 percent less than similarly situated private sector employees, with the spread even wider among more educated workers. The governor and his allies like to frame their goal as one that would destroy the special privileges of public employees -- as if a Cadillac class of public workers exists in the state. In truth, many public employees secured increased benefits in the 1970s, a time which saw the notion of a "budget crunch" come into play, and the state bargained its way out of salary increases (incidentally, during a time of rising inflation) in exchange for increased employee benefits. The "February Thaw" brought out an estimated 50,000 or more public employees, teachers, ordinary citizens and students to demonstrate against Walker's budget repair bill. Montesquieu, the 18th century French political philosopher, wrote about the impact of environment on human and societal behavior. Cold, icy climates, he said, generally dampened human passions, thus lessening chances of "public disorder." Walker should have offered his legislation during the first three weeks of January, when temperatures hovered just above zero. Confronting the protests, Walker has framed the issue in stark, simple terms. It is, he said, a battle between "protesters" and "taxpayers." That followed the obligatory remarks about outside agitators -- shades of Mississippi governors in the 1960s. Indeed, the media obliged him by making the increasingly marginalized Jesse Jackson the centerpiece of the protests, thus seeming to confirm Walker's contention about outside agitators. After three days of protests, the largest union offered to concede the pension and health insurance payments in exchange for continued recognition of the right to negotiate wage and working conditions. The governor bluntly replied that the time for negotiations had passed, but the truth is that at no time did he offer any negotiation on these matters. If your ideological baggage has no room for workers' rights, then you will rule by dictate and fiat. Walker's baggage overflows with hostility for workers. Walker insists that the budget shortfall requires that state workers, like everyone else in society, must carry their fair share of the burden. But the governor is causing pain to no one else to remedy the situation. Michigan's Republican Gov. Rick Snyder offered a $45 billion cost-cutting budget, but he said he would take only $1 in salary as part of the "shared sacrifice." Meanwhile, Snyder, unlike Walker, has begun negotiations with public employees unions to increase workers' shares of pension and health care costs. Wisconsin state revenues are down as statewide unemployment largely reflects the national picture. Furthermore, there is justifiable despair among the unemployed that their jobs may never return. And if they are over 50, there is only a small chance that they ever will have any job comparable to those they held prior to 2007. Little do they understand that companies continue to enjoy swollen revenues, income that inflates the profit side of their ledgers as they reap benefits from "restructuring" -- today's fashionable euphemism for dropping jobs and employees. The business community now sits on the sidelines, hoarding capital, and workers have little work. The governor claims he has traveled around the state talking to factory workers and others who say they support him because they must spend 25 to 50 percent of their income on health insurance. Well, if that is the case, and such folks are his supporters, perhaps it is time for Walker to rise to their defense and rein in the gouging health insurers. Budgets are a mysterious maze. Legislators -- let alone a citizenry dependent on a largely incompetent, ill-informed media -- rarely know the intricacies of a budget and how it may cause a seismic change in public policy. (For examples of the Republicans' tactics illustrating their belief that democracy is fine for Egypt but another matter for this country, see this.) Walker himself precipitated the "budget crisis," necessitating a "repair bill" that gave him and his allies what they really wanted. The governor pursues an agenda backed by the tea party's financial angels. Public employees and other workers down the line will pay the freight for such folly. The governor lies. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html
    Posted by Ergoetal[/QUOTE]
    ===============================================================

      AMEN BROTHER! The wealthy elite (ie the Koch Brothers) have conspired to create class conflict that will benefit them....

    Americans are so  pathetically stupid they can't figure this out. They'd rather tune into fair and balanced Fox News to be "informed".

     There's a reason that China is kickin'g our as5 and it's directly related to our own stupidity and laziness!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests : ===============================================================   AMEN BROTHER! The wealthy elite (ie the Koch Brothers) have conspired to create class conflict that will benefit them.... Americans are so  pathetically stupid they can't figure this out. They'd rather tune into fair and balanced Fox News to be "informed".  There's a reason that China is kickin'g our as5 and it's directly related to our own stupidity and laziness!
    Posted by kelldog1[/QUOTE]

    There are no unions in china.  China woops us because they have a much lower labor cost.  Working in China is not picinic.  No leaving work to protest government cuts in China.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]About the budget shortfall: What Gov. Walker Won't Tell You www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Important" />Important www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Funny">Funny www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Typical">Typical www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Scary">Scary www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Outrageous">Outrageous www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Amazing">Amazing www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Innovative">Innovative www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html# " title="Finally">Finally Read More:   Collective Bargaining  ,  Governor Scott Walker  ,  Union Busting  ,  Politics News SHARE THIS STORY 476 44 96 www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html " class="badge_v2_comments"> 447 Get Politics Alerts   Sign Up Submit this story There is a kernel of truth in Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's claim of a "budget shortfall" of $137 million. But Walker, a Republican, failed to tell the state that less than two weeks into his term as governor, he, with his swollen Republican majorities in the Wisconsin legislature, pushed through $117 million in tax breaks for business allies of the GOP. There is your crisis. The state Legislature's Legislative Fiscal Bureau -- Wisconsin's equivalent of the Congressional Budget Office and a refuge for professional expertise and nonpartisanship -- warned Walker and the legislature that the measure would create a budget gap. There is your shortfall -- and not one resulting from established public employee benefits. Before the tax giveaways, the fiscal agency predicted a surplus for the state. Now the governor has offered a proposal simple and clear in its intent, and patently dishonest. Walker wants state workers to contribute to their pension fund and is calling for an increase in their payments for medical insurance. Make no mistake: The governor's "budget repair bill" has little to do with a budget shortfall and everything to do with breaking unions, starting with public employees and then perhaps moving on to others as well. During his run for governor, Walker had substantial financial support from the Koch brothers, billionaire industrialists who have funded various anti-Obama, anti-science, and anti-national government movements. In short, they are opposed to anyone and anything that might diminish their exorbitant profits. And for the Kochs, destroying labor unions is in the top tier of their to-get-rid-of list. Walker's own hostility to labor unions is a touchstone of his prior political experience. He is out to realize his every long-held political fantasy, with the help of such allies as the National Association of Manufacturers; Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce; and the Chamber of Commerce. Ever since the 1930s, when national law recognized the right of workers to organize and bargain collectively, that gain has been under assault from right-wing ideologues and much of the business community. Public employees in Wisconsin, as elsewhere, do not have a recognized "right to strike." But they have a right to a union, with the power to negotiate wages and the conditions of work. That is Walker's real target, and after he deals with it perhaps he can move to make Wisconsin a "right-to-work" state, devoid of any protections for labor unions, just like Mississippi. Now we can understand Walker's mantra: "Wisconsin is open for business." What a "popular," appealing position! Everyone likes to complain about bureaucrats and teachers -- lazy, incompetent and, withal, overpaid. Never mind that studies portray a public work force earning 8 to 15 percent less than similarly situated private sector employees, with the spread even wider among more educated workers. The governor and his allies like to frame their goal as one that would destroy the special privileges of public employees -- as if a Cadillac class of public workers exists in the state. In truth, many public employees secured increased benefits in the 1970s, a time which saw the notion of a "budget crunch" come into play, and the state bargained its way out of salary increases (incidentally, during a time of rising inflation) in exchange for increased employee benefits. The "February Thaw" brought out an estimated 50,000 or more public employees, teachers, ordinary citizens and students to demonstrate against Walker's budget repair bill. Montesquieu, the 18th century French political philosopher, wrote about the impact of environment on human and societal behavior. Cold, icy climates, he said, generally dampened human passions, thus lessening chances of "public disorder." Walker should have offered his legislation during the first three weeks of January, when temperatures hovered just above zero. Confronting the protests, Walker has framed the issue in stark, simple terms. It is, he said, a battle between "protesters" and "taxpayers." That followed the obligatory remarks about outside agitators -- shades of Mississippi governors in the 1960s. Indeed, the media obliged him by making the increasingly marginalized Jesse Jackson the centerpiece of the protests, thus seeming to confirm Walker's contention about outside agitators. After three days of protests, the largest union offered to concede the pension and health insurance payments in exchange for continued recognition of the right to negotiate wage and working conditions. The governor bluntly replied that the time for negotiations had passed, but the truth is that at no time did he offer any negotiation on these matters. If your ideological baggage has no room for workers' rights, then you will rule by dictate and fiat. Walker's baggage overflows with hostility for workers. Walker insists that the budget shortfall requires that state workers, like everyone else in society, must carry their fair share of the burden. But the governor is causing pain to no one else to remedy the situation. Michigan's Republican Gov. Rick Snyder offered a $45 billion cost-cutting budget, but he said he would take only $1 in salary as part of the "shared sacrifice." Meanwhile, Snyder, unlike Walker, has begun negotiations with public employees unions to increase workers' shares of pension and health care costs. Wisconsin state revenues are down as statewide unemployment largely reflects the national picture. Furthermore, there is justifiable despair among the unemployed that their jobs may never return. And if they are over 50, there is only a small chance that they ever will have any job comparable to those they held prior to 2007. Little do they understand that companies continue to enjoy swollen revenues, income that inflates the profit side of their ledgers as they reap benefits from "restructuring" -- today's fashionable euphemism for dropping jobs and employees. The business community now sits on the sidelines, hoarding capital, and workers have little work. The governor claims he has traveled around the state talking to factory workers and others who say they support him because they must spend 25 to 50 percent of their income on health insurance. Well, if that is the case, and such folks are his supporters, perhaps it is time for Walker to rise to their defense and rein in the gouging health insurers. Budgets are a mysterious maze. Legislators -- let alone a citizenry dependent on a largely incompetent, ill-informed media -- rarely know the intricacies of a budget and how it may cause a seismic change in public policy. (For examples of the Republicans' tactics illustrating their belief that democracy is fine for Egypt but another matter for this country, see this.) Walker himself precipitated the "budget crisis," necessitating a "repair bill" that gave him and his allies what they really wanted. The governor pursues an agenda backed by the tea party's financial angels. Public employees and other workers down the line will pay the freight for such folly. The governor lies. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html

    Need a referesher in cut n' paste basics?
    Posted by Ergoetal[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests

    In Response to Re: The Wisconsin Union Protests:
    [QUOTE]skeeter said "There are no unions in china.  China woops us because they have a much lower labor cost.  Working in China is not picinic.  No leaving work to protest government cuts in China."     Stupid idiot.
    Posted by jedwardnicky[/QUOTE]

    I guess calling me an idiot automagically creates unions in China?  Just more of how the left is unable to a)make clear points, and b) resort to the politics of personal destruction from the get-go.

    Show me the unions.

    You are clearly in the dark. 


     

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