Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bobcatsr. Show bobcatsr's posts

    Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    Of all the deployments of U.S. combat troops this one seems to make the least sense.  This is a fanatically Muslim country with a deep history of distrust for outsiders.  Ask the Russians, they'll gladly tell you that inspite of having over a half million troops, modern weapons and a clear military advantage over the Afghans they had to leave there in total frustration and with heavy losses and huge financial expenditures.  Now, we're doing the same and for what?  It's pretty clear to most of us that we don't belong there.  We can win the military confrontations but we will never gain the trust of the population.  Just like Vietnam, the locals will patronize us, take our money and other gestures of goodwill, but when night comes they will put on their gear and fight us to the death.  If our only goal is to "Americanize" the people there then we have failed and will continue to fail.  Afghanistan is best left to the people who live there.  Gone are the days when we can impose our will and way of life over others.  The problems that the Afghans face are their own and can only be solved by them.  To continue to see our money and the lives of our soldiers wasted on this country is a travesty.  We have much more pressing issues right on our own border that need attention and our army that is now stationed overseas should be brought home and redeployed to our southern border and stop this insane invasion of our country that continues unabated to this very day.  When are we going to smarten up?  It seems to me that everything about the Middle East is linked to the oil fields because we've left ourselves so dependent on the oil there that we've literally shaped our foreign policy around the need to protect the oil.  In the meantime we have so much untapped oil reserves that we'd be swimming in it if only we'd adopt a comprehensive plan to free ourselves from dependence on Middle East Oil.  I'm not suggesting that those who wish to protect the environment are wrong but there has to be some common sense intertwined with this need also.  Whether we like it or not we are a country whose economy depends upon oil and that must be the overriding consideration when planning for the future.  We have the ability to free ourselves from this dependence and hence the need to station large military forces overseas where they're not wanted or welcomed.  Just do it!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    It's a war for oil. At least, that's what I was told ten years ago.
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    In Response to Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan? : Why do some conservatives feel the need to lie in order to snark about "liberals"? Oh right. Because that wasn't said about Afghanistan. They said it about Iraq. Which was wrong and stupid. But it wasn't said about Afghanistan.
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    Actually it was. Back in the good old days of the "Southcoast Forums" (or whatever it was, it was run by the New Bedford Standard Times) I was told by a number of self-identified liberals that the only reason that we were going to Afghanistan was to build a pipeline to move Caspian Sea oil to the Indian Ocean.

    I kid you not.

     
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    In Response to Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan? : Well then I apologize if true. I am sorry to hear it. I do not recall hearing that about Afghanistan, at least. A U.S. Pipeline across afghanistan. ROFL^100!
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    No sweat G.I. (as we used to say!)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    We would have been out of Afghanistan if all young Americans males were required to serve !

    SEMPER FI !
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    In Response to Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan? : Why do some conservatives feel the need to lie in order to snark about "liberals"? Oh right. Because that wasn't said about Afghanistan. They said it about Iraq. Which was wrong and stupid. But it wasn't said about Afghanistan.
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    What I recollect is that Afghanistan was the justified war according to liberals.

    The truth is the military won the war in about twenty minutes, and the politicians have been losing it ever since.  Nice touch at the end game here to disarm the marines prior to Panetta speaking.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    What I recollect is that in February of this year the conservatives criticized Obama for drawing US troops out Afghanistan over a three year period saying that time table was too quick !

    I thought we were in Afghanistan to kill bin Laden, to deny al Qeada a home base, to deny the Taliban a chance to over throw the Afghan government and to deter Pakistan from making a move on Afghanistan.

    The US military isn't just going to pack up and come home to the LAND of the BIG PX without a workable plan in place in Afghanistan ! I can hear the gop hooting and hollering now if we do leave without a plan !

    Anyway,  where will we station our troops for the invasion of Iran that the conservatives want?




     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    In Response to Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?:
    [QUOTE]What I recollect is that in February of this year the conservatives criticized Obama for drawing US troops out Afghanistan over a three year period saying that time table was too quick ! I thought we were in Afghanistan to kill bin Laden, to deny al Qeada a home base, to deny the Taliban a chance to over throw the Afghan government and to deter Pakistan from making a move on Afghanistan. The US military isn't just going to pack up and come home to the LAND of the BIG PX without a workable plan in place in Afghanistan ! I can hear the gop hooting and hollering now if we do leave without a plan ! Anyway,  where will we station our troops for the invasion of Iran that the conservatives want?
    Posted by Sistersledge[/QUOTE]

    Well, Afghanistan isn't going the way anyone wanted.  I guess at this point, it has been made clear that they want to slide into a morass of evil, corrupt violence, so let;s get out of the way.

    This isn't my first choice, but given the weak leadership in Washington, I don't see any other reasonable choice.
     
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    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    In Response to Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan? : Woweee we can actually agree. Except: It was a justified war according too EVERYONE. The Taliban happily sheltered people who killed 3,500+ of us. Taliban must die. As for winning hearts, mm..... no
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    A rare, mostly agreement.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    skeeter weak leadership in DC is your opinion . dubya let bin Laden escape our troops in Dec 01 at Tora Bora and into Pakistan. That lack of LEADERSHIP or  JUST PLAIN INCOMPETENCE in DC at that time laid the ground work for today's mess in Afghanistan. If dubya concentrated(more troops) on bin Laden instead of attacking Iraq and breaking the back of our military we would have been long gone from Afghanistan by now.

    dubya on 9/13/01," The most important thing for us is to find bin Laden. It's our number one priority, we will not rest until we find him.

    dubya on 3/13/02, " I don't know where bin Laden is. I don't have an idea where he is and really don't care. IT'S NOT THAT IMPORTANT. IT"S NOT OUR PRIORITY!

    dubya on 3/13/02, " I'm not truely concerned about him ( bin Laden ) " .

    dubya dropped the ball  when it came to Afghanistan . He never intended to finished the job in Afghanistan. He always intended to leave the mess for the next guy.

    In my opinion Afghanistan is not ready or willing to become a peaceful state yet and they are not worth the life and limbs of our kids. We have given the people of that country the tools to shape their future. All we can do now is hope that the Afghani people will chose to be reasonable and not radical.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bobcatsr. Show bobcatsr's posts

    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    Sister, your points are well taken but my memory serves me well, and it usually does, Bill Clinton originally dropped the ball on Osama when he could have killed him in the Sudan.  So in reality there's enough blame on this one to go around and it's not just a democrat or republican issue.  He was finally killed on Obama's watch and therefore the credit goes to him and rightfully so.  To those who don't know, seven U.S. soldiers were murdered last month by "friendly" Afghan soldiers!  What's wrong with this picture?  We are spending our money and shedding our blood in a country that doesn't want us there and we need an end game in order to get the hell out of that godforsaken place.  Karzai is no friend of America.  I compare him to the Vietnamese President that we propped up in office for many years, 57,000 American lives and hundreds of billions of our dollars only to leave there with our tail between our legs.  Afghanistan is a quagmire and we're stuck in it while other countries, notably, Britain, have openly declared their end of involvement.  We need to do the same and leave them to whoever takes control.  But unlike Vietnam, there is one thing that I'd do on the way out the door.  I'd destroy the Poppy fields once and for all and leave them unplantable forever.  I'm sick to death of young American service men and women being used as implements of rich white men's foreign policy follies.  It has to stop. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    Flame the poppy fields and depart.

    See how Allah likes that.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    bobcastsr I agree with you there is alot of blame to go around, there's a book called The Looming Tower by Lawerence Wright. It's the history of Al Qaeda. It's not a bad read.

    I served in the Middle East in the early 80's. When I first enlisted in the Corp we would always train for tank battles and small unit tactics such as house to house and other type of movements in urban setting in Germany against Ivan. Then all are training became desert warfare and more blitz type i.e. helicopter assaults into complexes like embassies, using long range hand held weapons against armor like LAWs and TOWs. We had to train on cover and concealment in desert enviroments, we had to develop confidence with our skills using maps and compasses, there was hardly any landmarks to use. We spend time and time and time and time cleaning our rifles and other equipments.

    I have alot of respect for the foot soldier who serve in a rifle company !
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    In Response to Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?:
    [QUOTE]skeeter weak leadership in DC is your opinion . dubya let bin Laden escape our troops in Dec 01 at Tora Bora and into Pakistan. That lack of LEADERSHIP or  JUST PLAIN INCOMPETENCE in DC at that time laid the ground work for today's mess in Afghanistan. If dubya concentrated(more troops) on bin Laden instead of attacking Iraq and breaking the back of our military we would have been long gone from Afghanistan by now. dubya on 9/13/01," The most important thing for us is to find bin Laden. It's our number one priority, we will not rest until we find him. dubya on 3/13/02, " I don't know where bin Laden is. I don't have an idea where he is and really don't care. IT'S NOT THAT IMPORTANT. IT"S NOT OUR PRIORITY! dubya on 3/13/02, " I'm not truely concerned about him ( bin Laden ) " . dubya dropped the ball  when it came to Afghanistan . He never intended to finished the job in Afghanistan. He always intended to leave the mess for the next guy. In my opinion Afghanistan is not ready or willing to become a peaceful state yet and they are not worth the life and limbs of our kids. We have given the people of that country the tools to shape their future. All we can do now is hope that the Afghani people will chose to be reasonable and not radical.
    Posted by Sistersledge[/QUOTE]

    Why does everything for you come back to Bush?  Are you that much of a partisan hack?

    Independent of any weakness on Bush's part, during his administration,  Obama has pursued four wars with incredible weakness, described even by his supporters as leading from behind.

    We have been kicked out of Iraq two years early, have a muddled strategy in Afghanistan, turned over Libya to al queda, turned Egypt over to the equally rancid Muslim Brotherhood, and twiddle out finger over Syria and Iran.

    That's Obama's weakness.
     
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    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    In Response to Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?:
    [QUOTE]It's a war for oil. At least, that's what I was told ten years ago.
    Posted by StalkingButler[/QUOTE]
    That is correct! In fahrenheit 911 Mr. Moore told us all about it! He won an Oscar for Documentary so it HAD to be true!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    skeeter, I would like to ask you if you consider these events and programs that were enacted years ago still having an influence on our lives today years after the facts, FDR's New Deal, Truman's decision to dropped the A-Bomb, The Korean War, The Bay of Tonkin Resolution, Johnson's Great society, The Civil Rights Act of 1964, NAFTA ,  dubya's policies and Obama's policies that will  still have an effect 10 years from now ? 

    Actions and decisions made by the most powerful man on earth have long lasting effects years after he leaves office. There is no denying that fact and quit living in denial !

    Again skeeter that is your impression of Obama who had to deal with the biggest mess left behind by any administration since presidents Ford or Carter had to deal with the after effects of the Viet Nam War !

    BTW if anybody on this board in a partisan it's you !!!!!!!!
     
    Now go and polish your pennies that you have saved from selling your blueberries during the 1950's !!!!!!!!

     
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    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    In Response to Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?:
    [QUOTE]Of all the deployments of U.S. combat troops this one seems to make the least sense.  This is a fanatically Muslim country with a deep history of distrust for outsiders.  Ask the Russians, they'll gladly tell you that inspite of having over a half million troops, modern weapons and a clear military advantage over the Afghans they had to leave there in total frustration and with heavy losses and huge financial expenditures.  Now, we're doing the same and for what?  It's pretty clear to most of us that we don't belong there.  We can win the military confrontations but we will never gain the trust of the population.  Just like Vietnam, the locals will patronize us, take our money and other gestures of goodwill, but when night comes they will put on their gear and fight us to the death.  If our only goal is to "Americanize" the people there then we have failed and will continue to fail.  Afghanistan is best left to the people who live there.  Gone are the days when we can impose our will and way of life over others.  The problems that the Afghans face are their own and can only be solved by them.  To continue to see our money and the lives of our soldiers wasted on this country is a travesty.  We have much more pressing issues right on our own border that need attention and our army that is now stationed overseas should be brought home and redeployed to our southern border and stop this insane invasion of our country that continues unabated to this very day.  When are we going to smarten up?  It seems to me that everything about the Middle East is linked to the oil fields because we've left ourselves so dependent on the oil there that we've literally shaped our foreign policy around the need to protect the oil.  In the meantime we have so much untapped oil reserves that we'd be swimming in it if only we'd adopt a comprehensive plan to free ourselves from dependence on Middle East Oil.  I'm not suggesting that those who wish to protect the environment are wrong but there has to be some common sense intertwined with this need also.  Whether we like it or not we are a country whose economy depends upon oil and that must be the overriding consideration when planning for the future.  We have the ability to free ourselves from this dependence and hence the need to station large military forces overseas where they're not wanted or welcomed.  Just do it!
    Posted by bobcatsr[/QUOTE]Good Post..... This is the "BIG O's" war, he can't blame this one on George W'a.......  What a God-forsaken country to be in...Heck, nobody ever wins there !!!   Just plain stupid to be there !!!
     
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    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    In Response to Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan? : Well put!
    Posted by jedwardnicky[/QUOTE]

    Agreeing with yourself again?

    it's been three years, and two more wars, and you STILL blame Bush?

    Face it, Obama is a failure, unable to untie the knot you all claim Bush put in the rope.  At this point, even if I stipulate that knot, the problem is that Obama can't untie it, because he is a complete incompetent.
     
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    Re: Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?

    In Response to Why Are We Fighting A War In Afghanistan?:
    [QUOTE]Of all the deployments of U.S. combat troops this one seems to make the least sense.   Posted by bobcatsr[/QUOTE]
    bobcatsr,
    You show a stunning level of ignorance when it comes to Afghanistan. For you to state that "of all the deployments of U.S. combat troops this one seems to make the least sense" is almost comical. Have you forgotten that the attack on 9-11 came from Afghanistan? The real non-sensical deployment was in Iraq. That will go down in history as one of the biggest military blunders in modern warfare. The real question in Afghanistan is why haven't we finished the job by now and gotten out of there. You can begin with the republicans in Congress - they don't want to get out of either Iraq or Afghanistan. How quickly you forget their accusations that President Obama was waving the white flag of surrender. And Willard Romney has made it clear that he would re-deploy troops to Iraq and stay in Afghanistan. Not only do the rightwingers in Congress want to stay in Afghanistan, our generals want to as well. Yes, our military would like to stay there. Why? It's good for their careers. Officers are getting combat commands and quick promotions. Defense contractors want us to stay too. Why? It is good business for them. And now we have republicans suggesting that we should get involved in Syria and Iran. News flash for those chickenhawks - our military is worn out. Our soldiers are burned out. The officers get their command time and then rotate out to staff jobs while the enlisted types (privates, corporals and sergeants) are stuck in combat units that deploy over and over again. The Staff Sergeant that whacked 16 civilians is the perfect, yet tragic example. Back to your "Why are we fighting in Afghanistan" question. We had no choice but to invade after 9-11. The problem is that we didn't invade properly. We should have started a draft on 9-12. We should have planned, prepared and carried it out like it was Normandy on D-Day. Instead, our President at the time cut taxes, closed bases and told us to go shopping. No military draft, no shared sacrifices. One can ask what is the mission in Afghanistan now? Is it nation building? Is it preventing another Taliban take over? Nobody seems to know. This is why its time to get out. You cannot look at a Soldier or Marine and tell them exactly why or how they are defending our freedom over there - unless you are a chickenhawk republican in congress, an Army or Marine general, or a defense contractor.
     
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