MoveOn.org friend or foe?

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    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    So, the group runs a controversial ad in the NYT yesterday, slamming General Patraeus for a report that hadn't even been released. I'm curious about the reaction from it's local members. Do you think this was over the top or are you happy that your donations are being spent this way?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mtbr1975. Show mtbr1975's posts

    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    Not nearly as bad as the lies Swift Boaters for "Truth" perpertrated on John Kerry, where was your outrage then?
     
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    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    That was almost 4 years ago and has nothing to do with this topic.
     
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    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    So, in your opinion, you don't think there will be any backlash for the ad from its members?
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fortysomething. Show fortysomething's posts

    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    Thanks for your input. In today's email, Eli et al defend their actions and refuse to admit it was a bad idea. I think that this type of behavior is too extreme and they are losing perspective.
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kmatthew68. Show kmatthew68's posts

    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    Peter Feaver's argument that Moveon is attacking General Patraeus's patriotism with their play on words is ridiculous.

    What evidence does Feaver offer that Moveon is engaging in a McCarthy type smear? In short, there is none.In his breathless attack on Moveon's credibility, Feaver demonstratesthat he knows neither the meaning of Mccarthyism, nor the meaning ofevidence. To see Moveon's ad and evidence you can go here

    Steven Benen notes thatthere have been four recent reports by independent Government agenciesthat directly contradict General Petraeus's, and the BushAdministrations, rosy outlook for success in Iraq. Despite the factthat Petraeus's past assessments have been questionable, and the Military refuses to be forth coming with their own accounting methods, you would think skepticism of Petraues's report would only be natural. In fact the L.A. Times reported that the White House would in fact be writing Petreaus's report, despite claims of independence from political inteference.

    But none of this matters to Feaver. His only complaint is that bycalling General Petraeus by his nickname "Betray Us", a term that evenhis fellow soldiers are using, that Moveon has moved from civil debate to calling Petraeus a traitorto his country. This of course is a laughable assertion and one canonly assume that Mr. Feaver is incompetent in his analysis or isdeliberately lying in an attempt to smear Moveon and its allies. Mosthilariously, Feaver argues,

    It is not legitimate,however, and it is exceedingly corrosive of healthy civil-militaryrelations to question the general's patriotism when his views differfrom yours and are inconvenient for one's political agenda.

    This is of course true. However, considering Feaver's past assertions that the Bush Administration has not questioned the patriotism or loyalty of it's many critics, an argument that is easily shot down, I think it's only fair to question his motives.


     
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    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    Bizona
    BINGO, that's my point. by using the word BETRAY, I think they have moved the spotlight off the discussion of extracating ourselves from Iraq. Shame on them.
     
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    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    kmathew68 - cutting and pasting other peoples opinions off a variety of websites is your idea of a discussion?
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mtbr1975. Show mtbr1975's posts

    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    Did you?
     
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    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    It has everything to do with it. People are trashing Moveon for calling someone who has served heroically in the military General Betrayus... yet those same people who are so angry at Moveon, were silent or supported the efforts when another group did exactly the same thing to John Kerry. It goes to show it all depends on what side of the fence people sit on. Its nothing to do with what is good for the country, only what is good for our party û its no different than the way people root for sports teams.

     
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    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    See Message #1468.16
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kmatthew68. Show kmatthew68's posts

    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    kmathew68 - cutting and pasting other peoples opinions off a variety of websites is your idea of a discussion?

    It is my way of making an argument that is sourced with facts. You may need to look up the definition of opinion.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mtbr1975. Show mtbr1975's posts

    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    Oh I agree, I do think the Moveon ad was outrageous and disgraceful, I just find it rather interesting that many of the same people that are calling for the Democrats to apologize for it (even though they had nothing to do with it) were mute on the Swift Boaters...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from fortysomething. Show fortysomething's posts

    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    well, i suppose if you want to base your assessment of what is appropriate behavior based on what other people are doing that is your right.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mtbr1975. Show mtbr1975's posts

    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    Its a matter of the pot calling the kettle black, people are outraged when China incarcerates people without a fair trial, but those same people say its in the matter of national security when the US does the same exact thing in Gitmo.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kmatthew68. Show kmatthew68's posts

    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    Many who advocate for some of the interrogation tactics endorsed by theBush administration (i.e., torture) point to the behavior of religiousextremists and terrorists who, they say, would do a lot worse to us ifgiven the chance. That's true, but should we really be using theirbehavior as a yardstick to judge what is appropriate behavior for us toengage in? I think not and if that's the point we've come to that weneed to look to the extreme behavior of terrorists to justify our ownbad behavior, then we've got much bigger problems than the next terrorattack.

    I think you are following into the trap that they are laying for you. The suggestion that Moveon is questioning General Petraeus's patriotism through their use of play on words is ridiculous. Moveon is not attacking his patriotism, they are attacking his credibility. Considering just how questionable Petraeus's past and present assertions regarding Iraq have been, that is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from fortysomething. Show fortysomething's posts

    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    Bizona, Agreed - 100%
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from fortysomething. Show fortysomething's posts

    MoveOn.org friend or foe?

    I haven't seen or heard of too many people actually blaming the democratic party for the actions of Moveon.org and I think it is a stretch to say these same people (again who are THEY) were silent regarding the Swift Boat controversy. I'm sure there are some talk show hosts and political commentators that might have done exactly what you describe, but I think you need to consider the source.
    My point is, when I see actions like this from any group I tend to dismiss them immediately and wonder what the real agenda is. I may not agree with everything the General said, but I don't believe for one minute that he has betrayed his country and is a bad person.
     
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