1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jedwardnicky. Show jedwardnicky's posts

    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
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    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    85% of the world has religion. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Indeed, they have it.

    But maybe some of them don't want it (or want another flavor).  In many places, that's simply not allowed.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    if you read the polling, the data, and the factual information available, you will find that religious beliefs worldwide and belief in god is going no where.  in fact, the available data shows only a tiny drop off in belief over the last 50 years.

    i agree that some faiths are hoist upon people with death as a penalty for non belief or blasphemy but the numbers still have changed less than 1% approximately since 1940.

    religion is not going away as was suggested. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, the title of this thread is "1 In 5  Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them".

    You too get a participation ribbon.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    85% of the world has religion. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Indeed, they have it.

    But maybe some of them don't want it (or want another flavor).  In many places, that's simply not allowed.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    if you read the polling, the data, and the factual information available, you will find that religious beliefs worldwide and belief in god is going no where.  in fact, the available data shows only a tiny drop off in belief over the last 50 years.

    i agree that some faiths are hoist upon people with death as a penalty for non belief or blasphemy but the numbers still have changed less than 1% approximately since 1940.

    religion is not going away as was suggested. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Who suggested that?

    Again, the point is in allowing the at-least 15% of non-believers to have their rightful say in the public square.  That some believers feel so mortally threatened by this is telling.

    No doubt, the U.S. is much more lenient on this score, and yet very few american politicians are openly non-theist; indeed, such a view would be political suicide in large swaths of the country. (to say nothing of believing in a god other than the christian one)

    My view is that religion is not a prerequisite for moral authority, much less sage political leadership.  Nor should it be.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    85% of the world has religion. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Indeed, they have it.

    But maybe some of them don't want it (or want another flavor).  In many places, that's simply not allowed.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    if you read the polling, the data, and the factual information available, you will find that religious beliefs worldwide and belief in god is going no where.  in fact, the available data shows only a tiny drop off in belief over the last 50 years.

    i agree that some faiths are hoist upon people with death as a penalty for non belief or blasphemy but the numbers still have changed less than 1% approximately since 1940.

    religion is not going away as was suggested. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Who suggested that?

    Again, the point is in allowing the at-least 15% of non-believers to have their rightful say in the public square.  That some believers feel so mortally threatened by this is telling.

    No doubt, the U.S. is much more lenient on this score, and yet very few american politicians are openly non-theist; indeed, such a view would be political suicide in large swaths of the country. (to say nothing of believing in a god other than the christian one)

    My view is that religion is not a prerequisite for moral authority, much less sage political leadership.  Nor should it be.

     [/QUOTE]

    "Again, the point is in allowing the at-least 15% of non-believers to have their rightful say in the public square"

    Kind of strange to say that, since the progressive view is that religion doesnt belong in the political realm at all, and religious belief doesnt have a political "rightful say"....is there a general "non-religious" atheist viewpoint? What political beliefs does it entail?

    Having it both ways here, arent we?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    In response to jedwardnicky's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    85% of the world has religion. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Indeed, they have it.

    But maybe some of them don't want it (or want another flavor).  In many places, that's simply not allowed.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    if you read the polling, the data, and the factual information available, you will find that religious beliefs worldwide and belief in god is going no where.  in fact, the available data shows only a tiny drop off in belief over the last 50 years.

    i agree that some faiths are hoist upon people with death as a penalty for non belief or blasphemy but the numbers still have changed less than 1% approximately since 1940.

    religion is not going away as was suggested. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, the title of this thread is "1 In 5  Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them".

    You too get a participation ribbon.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm actually surprised it's not higher.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
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    In response to jedwardnicky's comment:
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    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    85% of the world has religion. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Indeed, they have it.

    But maybe some of them don't want it (or want another flavor).  In many places, that's simply not allowed.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    if you read the polling, the data, and the factual information available, you will find that religious beliefs worldwide and belief in god is going no where.  in fact, the available data shows only a tiny drop off in belief over the last 50 years.

    i agree that some faiths are hoist upon people with death as a penalty for non belief or blasphemy but the numbers still have changed less than 1% approximately since 1940.

    religion is not going away as was suggested. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, the title of this thread is "1 In 5  Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them".

    You too get a participation ribbon.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm actually surprised it's not higher.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm curious.  Why do you say that?

    Everyone has a crisis of faith in their lives; it's part of what makes us human, to doubt our instincts now and then.

    I would also wager the term "religion" vs. "spirituality" might distort the stats somewhat.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    There are so many variations of Christianity in the US that in my opinion the overall message and tenets of the faith have been too diluted and watered down and people are drifting away from the faith.  

    We have everything from the tent revivalists (including odd offshoots like the snake handlers) to the somewhat strange Jehovah's Witnesses, to closed cultish sects like Westboro Baptist, churches that cater exclusively to bigots, black churches, white churches, churches that are nondenominational, Christian Scientists, Catholics, and the list goes on and on.  Add to that the political appropriation of Christianity in general by craven scoundrels running for office, church leadership that turned a blind eye to sexual abuse of children, church leaers who have built multi million dollar empires on the backs of their congregations, and the church acting as a political social entity and the whole thing begins to lose appeal.   There are too many mixed messages, too much hypocrisy, too much greed and intolerance, and so its not surprising that people are finding that faith and religion are unnecessary.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are so many variations of Christianity in the US that in my opinion the overall message and tenets of the faith have been too diluted and watered down and people are drifting away from the faith.  

    We have everything from the tent revivalists (including odd offshoots like the snake handlers) to the somewhat strange Jehovah's Witnesses, to closed cultish sects like Westboro Baptist, churches that cater exclusively to bigots, black churches, white churches, churches that are nondenominational, Christian Scientists, Catholics, and the list goes on and on.  Add to that the political appropriation of Christianity in general by craven scoundrels running for office, church leadership that turned a blind eye to sexual abuse of children, church leaers who have built multi million dollar empires on the backs of their congregations, and the church acting as a political social entity and the whole thing begins to lose appeal.   There are too many mixed messages, too much hypocrisy, too much greed and intolerance, and so its not surprising that people are finding that faith and religion are unnecessary.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Good points.

    Often, the phrase I hear is, "I didn't leave the church; the church left me."

    Catholicism, especially, has been hemhorraging parishoners these past few decades.

    Pope Francis seems to be trying to change that.

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from babytut. Show babytut's posts

    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    85% of the world has religion. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Indeed, they have it.

    But maybe some of them don't want it (or want another flavor).  In many places, that's simply not allowed.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    if you read the polling, the data, and the factual information available, you will find that religious beliefs worldwide and belief in god is going no where.  in fact, the available data shows only a tiny drop off in belief over the last 50 years.

    i agree that some faiths are hoist upon people with death as a penalty for non belief or blasphemy but the numbers still have changed less than 1% approximately since 1940.

    religion is not going away as was suggested. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Who suggested that?

    Again, the point is in allowing the at-least 15% of non-believers to have their rightful say in the public square.  That some believers feel so mortally threatened by this is telling.

    No doubt, the U.S. is much more lenient on this score, and yet very few american politicians are openly non-theist; indeed, such a view would be political suicide in large swaths of the country. (to say nothing of believing in a god other than the christian one)

    My view is that religion is not a prerequisite for moral authority, much less sage political leadership.  Nor should it be.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    one poster here said that

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
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    In response to jedwardnicky's comment:
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    In response to babytut's comment:
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    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    85% of the world has religion. 



    Indeed, they have it.

    But maybe some of them don't want it (or want another flavor).  In many places, that's simply not allowed.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    if you read the polling, the data, and the factual information available, you will find that religious beliefs worldwide and belief in god is going no where.  in fact, the available data shows only a tiny drop off in belief over the last 50 years.

    i agree that some faiths are hoist upon people with death as a penalty for non belief or blasphemy but the numbers still have changed less than 1% approximately since 1940.

    religion is not going away as was suggested. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, the title of this thread is "1 In 5  Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them".

    You too get a participation ribbon.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm actually surprised it's not higher.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm curious.  Why do you say that?

    Everyone has a crisis of faith in their lives; it's part of what makes us human, to doubt our instincts now and then.

    I would also wager the term "religion" vs. "spirituality" might distort the stats somewhat.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I wasn't cueing in so much on "religion" vs. "spirituality", that's an interesting point.  I guess I was thinking of it somewhat parochial:  We live in a christain-dominated country where the key tenets of christianity are not really followed.  I guess that's why I said what I said.  Not saying I am right, just explaining why the number surprised me.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
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    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

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    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
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    In response to jedwardnicky's comment:
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    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    85% of the world has religion. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Indeed, they have it.

     

    But maybe some of them don't want it (or want another flavor).  In many places, that's simply not allowed.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    if you read the polling, the data, and the factual information available, you will find that religious beliefs worldwide and belief in god is going no where.  in fact, the available data shows only a tiny drop off in belief over the last 50 years.

    i agree that some faiths are hoist upon people with death as a penalty for non belief or blasphemy but the numbers still have changed less than 1% approximately since 1940.

    religion is not going away as was suggested. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, the title of this thread is "1 In 5  Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them".

    You too get a participation ribbon.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm actually surprised it's not higher.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm curious.  Why do you say that?

    Everyone has a crisis of faith in their lives; it's part of what makes us human, to doubt our instincts now and then.

    I would also wager the term "religion" vs. "spirituality" might distort the stats somewhat.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I wasn't cueing in so much on "religion" vs. "spirituality", that's an interesting point.  I guess I was thinking of it somewhat parochial:  We live in a christain-dominated country where the key tenets of christianity are not really followed.  I guess that's why I said what I said.  Not saying I am right, just explaining why the number surprised me.

    [/QUOTE]

    And yet there is certainly much debate over exactly what the 'key tenets of christianity' are and how they should be followed.  Best as I can tell, there are no direct answers, and dogma fills in the gaps between scripture and doctrine.

    The nature of parochialism is that it emphasizes the local over the regional or national, so by those terms, there exists a wide variation of christian identity even within a given denomination.

    Of course, when people say something like religion is 'not that important' to them, their perceptions are entirely relative.

     

     

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    Well I hate to be construed as a contrarian but in my optimistic view point is that based on the poll that the remainder or 79% feel that religion is important in their lives.

     
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    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
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    In response to ronreganfan's comment:
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    In response to babytut's comment:
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    85% of the world has religion. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Indeed, they have it.

     

    But maybe some of them don't want it (or want another flavor).  In many places, that's simply not allowed.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    if you read the polling, the data, and the factual information available, you will find that religious beliefs worldwide and belief in god is going no where.  in fact, the available data shows only a tiny drop off in belief over the last 50 years.

    i agree that some faiths are hoist upon people with death as a penalty for non belief or blasphemy but the numbers still have changed less than 1% approximately since 1940.

    religion is not going away as was suggested. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, the title of this thread is "1 In 5  Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them".

    You too get a participation ribbon.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm actually surprised it's not higher.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm curious.  Why do you say that?

    Everyone has a crisis of faith in their lives; it's part of what makes us human, to doubt our instincts now and then.

    I would also wager the term "religion" vs. "spirituality" might distort the stats somewhat.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I wasn't cueing in so much on "religion" vs. "spirituality", that's an interesting point.  I guess I was thinking of it somewhat parochial:  We live in a christain-dominated country where the key tenets of christianity are not really followed.  I guess that's why I said what I said.  Not saying I am right, just explaining why the number surprised me.

    [/QUOTE]

    And yet there is certainly much debate over exactly what the 'key tenets of christianity' are and how they should be followed.  Best as I can tell, there are no direct answers, and dogma fills in the gaps between scripture and doctrine.

    The nature of parochialism is that it emphasizes the local over the regional or national, so by those terms, there exists a wide variation of christian identity even within a given denomination.

    Of course, when people say something like religion is 'not that important' to them, their perceptions are entirely relative.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Sure, plenty of debate over what the some non-key tenets of Christianity are.  However, the fathers of the faith are probably not that much in disagreement on the key tenets, such as there being only one God.  You can believe in many Gods, but by doing so, you fall outside a belief system that can be defined as Christian.  I'm not saying there is absolute conformity on every issue, just that it is more nailed down than you probably think.

    I take the original statement to be more about people running away from whatever tenets they are exposed to, as in people just going all new age, or just read the newspaper in a coffee shop on Sundays, rather than engage in a church worship experience.

    However, most people don't engage in Christian worship.  Part of the same survey say that about half regularly go to church.  I find even that hard to believe.  Not enough churches to account for half of the population going to church any given Sunday.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    In response to andiejen's comment:
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    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
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    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    85% of the world has religion. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Indeed, they have it.

    But maybe some of them don't want it (or want another flavor).  In many places, that's simply not allowed.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    if you read the polling, the data, and the factual information available, you will find that religious beliefs worldwide and belief in god is going no where.  in fact, the available data shows only a tiny drop off in belief over the last 50 years.

    i agree that some faiths are hoist upon people with death as a penalty for non belief or blasphemy but the numbers still have changed less than 1% approximately since 1940.

    religion is not going away as was suggested. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Who suggested that?

    Again, the point is in allowing the at-least 15% of non-believers to have their rightful say in the public square.  That some believers feel so mortally threatened by this is telling.

    No doubt, the U.S. is much more lenient on this score, and yet very few american politicians are openly non-theist; indeed, such a view would be political suicide in large swaths of the country. (to say nothing of believing in a god other than the christian one)

    My view is that religion is not a prerequisite for moral authority, much less sage political leadership.  Nor should it be.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    In other words, you do not need god to be a good person. 

    But given the most recent polls on religion in America, you are correct. It is indeed political suicide to be an open agnostic or athesist.

    In my post above are the details of how this breaks down in America.

    [/QUOTE]

    Depends on what you mean by good.  I don't think Christianity is about being or doing good, per se.  It is about getting real with our relationship with God.

    i don't know about being agnostic or atheist as political suicide.  Sure, many politicians talk a good game on faith, but their actions generally indicate that they are just talk.  People put blinders on.  Example, Biden and Pelosi being pro abortion and claiming to be good Catholics.  That doesn't work, but their supporters and the press let them get away with it.

    i enjoyed the article above, BTW.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    In response to WhatNowDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Was the question phrased as just religion...or belief in God?

     

    Because there are people for whom religion, as in organized religion, plays a role who do not necessarily have some absolute faith in God or any particular deity.

    (ie, AA - surrender yourself to a "higher power" because for some people, convincing themselves they're being helped by a magical being is the only way to trick themselves into exercising their own very real will power; etc.)

     One could even imagine an old lonely person who would say "yes, religion is important" when they're thinking of how church events are their only remaining social gatherings - and yet maybe they don't believe in a God.

     

    Etc.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes.  I think we all bring our bias to this survey question, which is not specific enough to make any real conclusions.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronreganfan. Show ronreganfan's posts

    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

    In response to andiejen's comment:
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    85% of the world has religion. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Indeed, they have it.

    But maybe some of them don't want it (or want another flavor).  In many places, that's simply not allowed.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    if you read the polling, the data, and the factual information available, you will find that religious beliefs worldwide and belief in god is going no where.  in fact, the available data shows only a tiny drop off in belief over the last 50 years.

    i agree that some faiths are hoist upon people with death as a penalty for non belief or blasphemy but the numbers still have changed less than 1% approximately since 1940.

    religion is not going away as was suggested. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Who suggested that?

    Again, the point is in allowing the at-least 15% of non-believers to have their rightful say in the public square.  That some believers feel so mortally threatened by this is telling.

    No doubt, the U.S. is much more lenient on this score, and yet very few american politicians are openly non-theist; indeed, such a view would be political suicide in large swaths of the country. (to say nothing of believing in a god other than the christian one)

    My view is that religion is not a prerequisite for moral authority, much less sage political leadership.  Nor should it be.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    In other words, you do not need god to be a good person. 

    But given the most recent polls on religion in America, you are correct. It is indeed political suicide to be an open agnostic or athesist.

    In my post above are the details of how this breaks down in America.

    [/QUOTE]

    Depends on what you mean by good.  I don't think Christianity is about being or doing good, per se.  It is about getting real with our relationship with God.

    i don't know about being agnostic or atheist as political suicide.  Sure, many politicians talk a good game on faith, but their actions generally indicate that they are just talk.  People put blinders on.  Example, Biden and Pelosi being pro abortion and claiming to be good Catholics.  That doesn't work, but their supporters and the press let them get away with it.

    i enjoyed the article above, BTW.

    [/QUOTE]

    ron,

    I am glad you enjoyed the article.

    One reason I believe being an open agnostic or atheist is political suicide comes right from that article.

     

    "So what of the U.S.? A comparatively eye-popping 53 percent of Americans essentially believe atheists and agnostics are living in sin. Despite the fact that a research analyst at the Federal Bureau of Prisons determined that atheists are thoroughly under-represented in the places where rapists, thieves and murders invariably end up: prisons. While atheists make upward of 15 percent of the U.S. population, they only make up 0.2 percent of the prison population."

     

    With research numbers like the above I cannot think of many political positions one could attain right now.

    [/QUOTE]

    Interesting, the athiest stat.  Good for them.

    You would think athiests would be less tied to some sense of moral standards.  Not poking fun, but it just doesn't make sense. I would have to ask:  Where do they think morality comes from?

    Maybe the prison population is not resepctive of religion.  Or athiests are better at not getting caught!

     
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    Re: 1 In 5 Americans Say Religion Is 'Not That Important' To Them

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    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to babytut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    85% of the world has religion. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Indeed, they have it.

    But maybe some of them don't want it (or want another flavor).  In many places, that's simply not allowed.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    if you read the polling, the data, and the factual information available, you will find that religious beliefs worldwide and belief in god is going no where.  in fact, the available data shows only a tiny drop off in belief over the last 50 years.

    i agree that some faiths are hoist upon people with death as a penalty for non belief or blasphemy but the numbers still have changed less than 1% approximately since 1940.

    religion is not going away as was suggested. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Who suggested that?

    Again, the point is in allowing the at-least 15% of non-believers to have their rightful say in the public square.  That some believers feel so mortally threatened by this is telling.

    No doubt, the U.S. is much more lenient on this score, and yet very few american politicians are openly non-theist; indeed, such a view would be political suicide in large swaths of the country. (to say nothing of believing in a god other than the christian one)

    My view is that religion is not a prerequisite for moral authority, much less sage political leadership.  Nor should it be.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    In other words, you do not need god to be a good person. 

    But given the most recent polls on religion in America, you are correct. It is indeed political suicide to be an open agnostic or athesist.

    In my post above are the details of how this breaks down in America.

    [/QUOTE]

    Depends on what you mean by good.  I don't think Christianity is about being or doing good, per se.  It is about getting real with our relationship with God.

    i don't know about being agnostic or atheist as political suicide.  Sure, many politicians talk a good game on faith, but their actions generally indicate that they are just talk.  People put blinders on.  Example, Biden and Pelosi being pro abortion and claiming to be good Catholics.  That doesn't work, but their supporters and the press let them get away with it.

    i enjoyed the article above, BTW.

    [/QUOTE]

    ron,

    I am glad you enjoyed the article.

    One reason I believe being an open agnostic or atheist is political suicide comes right from that article.

     

    "So what of the U.S.? A comparatively eye-popping 53 percent of Americans essentially believe atheists and agnostics are living in sin. Despite the fact that a research analyst at the Federal Bureau of Prisons determined that atheists are thoroughly under-represented in the places where rapists, thieves and murders invariably end up: prisons. While atheists make upward of 15 percent of the U.S. population, they only make up 0.2 percent of the prison population."

     

    With research numbers like the above I cannot think of many political positions one could attain right now.

    [/QUOTE]

    Interesting, the athiest stat.  Good for them.

    You would think athiests would be less tied to some sense of moral standards.  Not poking fun, but it just doesn't make sense. I would have to ask:  Where do they think morality comes from?

    Maybe the prison population is not resepctive of religion.  Or athiests are better at not getting caught!

    [/QUOTE]

    ron,

    I do not know if your last sentence is an example of your wit or not. Still trying to catch on to that.

    A short answer is since atheists do not believe in an afterlife, they put an even stronger emphasis on their morality in this life...the only life they believe in. So atheists are in fact more tied to moral standards than less so.

    As for where do they think morality comes from...people, including atheists, do not need a god or religion to know what core values are. Fairness, avoidnes of harm, loyalty, honesty, authority, etc.

    Since they do not have a god to fall back on and say it was god's will when bad things happen, they do not have a god to square things with. They take on the bad directly all the while leaving people of faith free to lean on their faith in the bad times.

    I believe atheists are very moral people...often more moral than those who follow one religion or not. Atheists usually have given much more thought to arriving at the decision to be an athesist while many who follow a religion are simply following whatever religion they were born into.

    That is my short answer to your question ron. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, I beleive athiests can be moral people as well, thoughtful, and intelligent.  Wouldn't want to suggest otherwise.  I am just curious how they arrive, philosophically, at moral positions, i.e. how to they arrive at do no harm, be good to others.  Is the athiest position thatthese are the result of the randomness that lead totheir life to begin with?  That's where I'm heading.

     
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