14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    Except that criminals don't buy guns through legal process. So there's that

    Where do criminals get their guns?

     



    Black market; theft etc.

     



    Unfortunately you are mistaken about gun violence.  Many of these perpetrators are not criminals until after they use the gun in a wrongful way.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    Except that criminals don't buy guns through legal process. So there's that

     

     



    Where do criminals get their guns?



    Some examples...

    Crooked gun dealers who sell guns illegal in back alleys

    Straw purchasing

    Gunrunners who bring in weapons bought in suburbs or out of state for example

    Burglarized homes

    Flea-market traders

    Gun shows where no background check is done

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    Except that criminals don't buy guns through legal process. So there's that

    Where do criminals get their guns?

     



    Black market; theft etc.

     

     



    Unfortunately you are mistaken about gun violence.  Many of these perpetrators are not criminals until after they use the gun in a wrongful way.

     



    Anyone who obtains a gun illegally is a criminal. Why else would they obtain one illegally?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    Except that criminals don't buy guns through legal process. So there's that

    Where do criminals get their guns?

     



    Black market; theft etc.

     

     




     

    What type of 'black market'?

    Doesn't every purchase have to be legal at some point?

     



    No. See my first example a few posts up.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    This stuff about "don't blame the innanimate object" is foolishness.  The law is full of innanimate objects that are regulated through criminal statutes.  Simple possession of heroin is a crime to the person who possesses it.  Use of a firearm in a robbery is punished more severely than without one. Even the use of cars (despite their obvious utilitarian purpose) is regulated by the state.  Why?  Because society recognizes them as being potentially dangerous instrumentalities requiring additional restrictions to keep society safe.  Finding the right balance between the freedom of the individual and social safety concerns is the issue.  But idiot ideologues pretend it is not there... 

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    Except that criminals don't buy guns through legal process. So there's that

    Where do criminals get their guns?

     



    Black market; theft etc.

     

     



    Unfortunately you are mistaken about gun violence.  Many of these perpetrators are not criminals until after they use the gun in a wrongful way.

     

     



    Anyone who obtains a gun illegally is a criminal. Why else would they obtain one illegally?

     

     



    A lot of gun violence comes from people who legally possess them and wrongfully use them.  That is a given.  

    Still, limiting people from obtaining guns they legally cannot possess should be a no-brainer... unless your in the leadership of the N.R.A., a gun manufacturer or otherwise an idiot ideologue..

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    This stuff about "don't blame the innanimate object" is foolishness.

     

    If killing people were entirely the fault of guns no one would ever leave a gun show alive, now would they?

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    Where do criminals get their guns?

     

    Well, if you're a violent criminal Mexican drug lord you can get them directly from the Obama administration.


    Sweet, eh?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    Except that criminals don't buy guns through legal process. So there's that

    Where do criminals get their guns?

     



    Black market; theft etc.

     

     




     

    What type of 'black market'?

    Doesn't every purchase have to be legal at some point?

     

     



    No. See my first example a few posts up.

     

     




    Looking at your list of sources wouldn't background checks AND mandatory federal gun registration all but eliminate these sources?

    No really

    Registration would trace the gun back to "crooked gun dealers" which you could then prosecute. The same would be true for straw purchases.

    Already do now. Gun dealers have inventory of all guns. Doesn't stop stupid people from trying to sell them

    You do realize serial numbers can be tampered with so it wouldn't stop straw purchases either.

     

    I assume registration would also help tracking gun runners because they must have purchased the guns legally somewhere.

    Why would you assume gunrunners bought them legally? Remember the first example? 

    Closing the private-sale/gun-show loophole for background checks would most likely close that source of guns for criminals.

    This one would work. But it also accounts for small percentage of guns.

     

    It would seem that federal registration and closing the gun-show loophole would be commonsense ideas that the NRA opposes.

     




     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    Except that criminals don't buy guns through legal process. So there's that

    Where do criminals get their guns?

     



    Black market; theft etc.

     

     



    Unfortunately you are mistaken about gun violence.  Many of these perpetrators are not criminals until after they use the gun in a wrongful way.

     

     



    Anyone who obtains a gun illegally is a criminal. Why else would they obtain one illegally?

     

     



    A lot of gun violence comes from people who legally possess them and wrongfully use them.  That is a given.  

    Still, limiting people from obtaining guns they legally cannot possess should be a no-brainer... unless your in the leadership of the N.R.A., a gun manufacturer or otherwise an idiot ideologue..

     



    True...look at how no one has been able to obtain illegal drugs...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

     

    This stuff about "don't blame the innanimate object" is foolishness.

     

     

    If killing people were entirely the fault of guns no one would ever leave a gun show alive, now would they?

     



    If guns kill people then my dads guns were defective. Thank god for that.

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

     

     

    This stuff about "don't blame the innanimate object" is foolishness.

     

     

    If killing people were entirely the fault of guns no one would ever leave a gun show alive, now would they?

     

     



    Huh?  Who said that gun violence is entirely the fault of guns?  Answer: your make believe lefty opponent.  Can you formulate an actual intelligent response?  Pretend conversations don't interest me.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    Except that criminals don't buy guns through legal process. So there's that

    Where do criminals get their guns?

     



    Black market; theft etc.

     

     




     

    What type of 'black market'?

    Doesn't every purchase have to be legal at some point?

     

     



    No. See my first example a few posts up.

     

     




    Looking at your list of sources wouldn't background checks AND mandatory federal gun registration all but eliminate these sources?

    No really

    Registration would trace the gun back to "crooked gun dealers" which you could then prosecute. The same would be true for straw purchases.

    Already do now. Gun dealers have inventory of all guns. Doesn't stop stupid people from trying to sell them

    You do realize serial numbers can be tampered with so it wouldn't stop straw purchases either.

     

    I assume registration would also help tracking gun runners because they must have purchased the guns legally somewhere.

    Why would you assume gunrunners bought them legally? Remember the first example? 

    Closing the private-sale/gun-show loophole for background checks would most likely close that source of guns for criminals.

    This one would work. But it also accounts for small percentage of guns.

     

    It would seem that federal registration and closing the gun-show loophole would be commonsense ideas that the NRA opposes.

     



    Already do now. Gun dealers have inventory of all guns. Doesn't stop stupid people from trying to sell them.

     

    Inventory is not the same as registration.

    I don't believe that a federally licensed gun dealer can be selling weapons in back alleys, or anywhere, without a Form 4473. They have to account for the weapon in their inventory somehow.

    Are you saying that they forge the forms?

    There is no federal registration that I know of where law enforcement can track every weapon.

     



    You do realize we're talking about "crooked" gun dealers right? Of course a federally licensed gun dealer who follows the law wouldn't be selling guns in back alleys...but we're not talking about those that follow the law. We're talking about those who break the law.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    Momentum grew for Senate passage of gun legislation when a bipartisan group of senators on Wednesday announced agreement on deals to expand background checks and tighten laws against gun trafficking.

    The first breakthrough came in a deal on background checks announced by Sens. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) and Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), who agreed on an amendment that would exempt all "personal" transfers of weapons between individuals, but would close the infamous gun show loophole and also require background checks on Internet sales.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    If guns kill people then my dads guns were defective.



    This is beyond ret@rded and everyone who says it knows it perfectly damn well.

     

    You could same the exact same thing about nuclear weapons, or fully armed submarines, or flame-throwers.

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    True...look at how no one has been able to obtain illegal drugs.

     

    Well I guess we better not have any laws then. After all, every law has been broken.

    Nevermind that guns are quite different from drugs....  

     

    Right because that's what I said...you were mentioning something about hair pulling...ahem.

     

    Listen, oh ye dedicated fools:  People kill people WITH guns.

     

    And people kill people with hammers, cars, bats, knives, fists, and on and on.

    The person is bad, and the gun makes it easier for them to express their badness.

    That's why the most practical approach will be a combination of things that focus on both people, and on the guns in question.

     

     

    Saying "guns don't kill people" is simply your way of avoiding having to justify your position and you know it.

     




     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE] 

    Saying "guns don't kill people" is simply your way of avoiding having to justify your position and you know it.

    [QUOTE]

    Ignoring that many things kill, knives, bats, pipes,  and that abortion and car accidents kill many more than guns is you way of just trying to make a political gain.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    Inventory is not the same as registration.

    I don't believe that a federally licensed gun dealer can be selling weapons in back alleys, or anywhere, without a Form 4473. They have to account for the weapon in their inventory somehow.

    Are you saying that they forge the forms?

    There is no federal registration that I know of where law enforcement can track every weapon.

     



    Guns are as fluid as anything and making them illegal does nothing but, restrict law abiding citizens freedom.

    Cocaine and heroin are illegal but somehow still readily available and kill way more people than guns!!

    GUns are made in Mexico, south america, china etc, saying YOU (the honest American citizen) can't manufacture, sell or own them is just BS!!

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    Except that criminals don't buy guns through legal process. So there's that

    Where do criminals get their guns?

     



    Black market; theft etc.

     

     




     

    What type of 'black market'?

    Doesn't every purchase have to be legal at some point?

     

     



    No. See my first example a few posts up.

     

     




    Looking at your list of sources wouldn't background checks AND mandatory federal gun registration all but eliminate these sources?

    No really

    Registration would trace the gun back to "crooked gun dealers" which you could then prosecute. The same would be true for straw purchases.

    Already do now. Gun dealers have inventory of all guns. Doesn't stop stupid people from trying to sell them

    You do realize serial numbers can be tampered with so it wouldn't stop straw purchases either.

     

    I assume registration would also help tracking gun runners because they must have purchased the guns legally somewhere.

    Why would you assume gunrunners bought them legally? Remember the first example? 

    Closing the private-sale/gun-show loophole for background checks would most likely close that source of guns for criminals.

    This one would work. But it also accounts for small percentage of guns.

     

    It would seem that federal registration and closing the gun-show loophole would be commonsense ideas that the NRA opposes.

     



    Already do now. Gun dealers have inventory of all guns. Doesn't stop stupid people from trying to sell them.

     

    Inventory is not the same as registration.

    I don't believe that a federally licensed gun dealer can be selling weapons in back alleys, or anywhere, without a Form 4473. They have to account for the weapon in their inventory somehow.

    Are you saying that they forge the forms?

    There is no federal registration that I know of where law enforcement can track every weapon.

     

     



    You do realize we're talking about "crooked" gun dealers right? Of course a federally licensed gun dealer who follows the law wouldn't be selling guns in back alleys...but we're not talking about those that follow the law. We're talking about those who break the law.

     

     

     




     

    I was just running the logic to try and find the flaws in the current system.

    It would seem that the flaw is no federal gun registration.

    If every gun is registered then cops would be able to trace it back to it's original source. That source would have to be legal at some point. The gun has to get from the manufacturer to the public legally. If there was a registration paper trail then one could find where the legal sale became illegal.

    If a gun used in a crime comes back to a gun dealer then the cops would simply ask for the 4473 and see it was a forgery.

    It doesn't seem logical that a gun dealer, the one entity who is the most regulated would risk his business over a few hundred dollar illegal sale when there are plenty of legal purchasers to buy the same gun.

    And with the advances in forensics, it's almost impossible to file the serial number down to a point where it can't be recovered. At least it's beyond what a run-of-the-mill criminal is able to do and takes more effort than what he/she would be willing put in.



    Name me one criminal who IS logical

    There is a reason the FBI has statistics on guns that were ILLEGALLY sold by FEDERALLY LICENSED GUN DEALERS....

    You're trying to use logic on illogical acts. 

     

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    I was just running the logic to try and find the flaws in the current system.

    It would seem that the flaw is no federal gun registration.

    If every gun is registered then cops would be able to trace it back to it's original source. That source would have to be legal at some point. The gun has to get from the manufacturer to the public legally. If there was a registration paper trail then one could find where the legal sale became illegal.

    If a gun used in a crime comes back to a gun dealer then the cops would simply ask for the 4473 and see it was a forgery.

    It doesn't seem logical that a gun dealer, the one entity who is the most regulated would risk his business over a few hundred dollar illegal sale when there are plenty of legal purchasers to buy the same gun.

    And with the advances in forensics, it's almost impossible to file the serial number down to a point where it can't be recovered. At least it's beyond what a run-of-the-mill criminal is able to do and takes more effort than what he/she would be willing put in.



    In a perfect world that would be workable to some extent. The problems is all guns are not made in the USA and come here illegally.

    In my opinion if, the USA outlaws the manufacture or sale of a certain gun ,mod package or magazine it just opens up a new black market and will have no affect on CRIMINALS but, will restrict the rights of law abiding citizens who are collectors or enthusiast!

     

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    But I thought we were the ones illegally smuggling guns into othercountries aka Holder. 

    It seems counter-intuitive that smuggling weapons into the most weaponized country on earth would be a lucrative business idea.

     




    You do know that it is illegal for felons or domestic abusers to buy guns and that background checks in this area work?

    It is also illegal to manufacture, sell or own fully automatic weapons so, criminals have to get them elsewhere!

    aka gun smugglers!!

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share