14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

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    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

    Momentum grew for Senate passage of gun legislation when a bipartisan group of senators on Wednesday announced agreement on deals to expand background checks and tighten laws against gun trafficking.

    The first breakthrough came in a deal on background checks announced by Sens. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) and Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), who agreed on an amendment that would exempt all "personal" transfers of weapons between individuals, but would close the infamous gun show loophole and also require background checks on Internet sales.



    And lo, nobody's freedomz were hindered or harmed in any way.

    Yet, sadly, the extremists at the NRA opposed even this commonsense reform.

     

     
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    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to Newtster's comment:

    Speak to them, they are the ones ignoring the mental health side completely. 



    Stop pretending that gopers want to pay for it.  They don't...and those are the ones who even acknowledge the problem.  

    The way they fight tooth and nail against any sort of meaningful health care reform, it's a wonder they care at all.

    Instead, they'll open more crony capitalist privatized prisons with their slave labor and abhorrent conditions and zero savings to the taxpayer.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    I was just running the logic to try and find the flaws in the current system.

    It would seem that the flaw is no federal gun registration.

    If every gun is registered then cops would be able to trace it back to it's original source. That source would have to be legal at some point. The gun has to get from the manufacturer to the public legally. If there was a registration paper trail then one could find where the legal sale became illegal.

    If a gun used in a crime comes back to a gun dealer then the cops would simply ask for the 4473 and see it was a forgery.

    It doesn't seem logical that a gun dealer, the one entity who is the most regulated would risk his business over a few hundred dollar illegal sale when there are plenty of legal purchasers to buy the same gun.

    And with the advances in forensics, it's almost impossible to file the serial number down to a point where it can't be recovered. At least it's beyond what a run-of-the-mill criminal is able to do and takes more effort than what he/she would be willing put in.

     



    In a perfect world that would be workable to some extent. The problems is all guns are not made in the USA and come here illegally.

     

    In my opinion if, the USA outlaws the manufacture or sale of a certain gun ,mod package or magazine it just opens up a new black market and will have no affect on CRIMINALS but, will restrict the rights of law abiding citizens who are collectors or enthusiast!

     
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    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

     

    How many people here would pick up a gram of 75% pure cocaine on the way home if it were legal?

    ...



    Not me; would you?

     
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    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    Background checks are only required for FFL sales.

    It is not illegal to own machine guns.

    In 2005 there were over 330,000 machine guns registered with the ATF. About half are owned by civilians and the other half by police departments and other governmental agencies


    It is not illegal to manufacture machine guns in the US  They are manufactured in the US every day by Class II FFL's.  



    We are talking about private citizens maybe collectors not FFLs holders.

    Its illegal for an ordinary law abiding private citizen to buy or own a fully automatic weapon, it's illegal for a felon or someone accused or convicted of domestic abuse to own or buy any firearm.

    So the fact that FFL's can make and sell to military, security and govt agencies is irrelevent.

    Getting a FFLS's is pretty stringent!

    How to Become a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL)

    Once you have decided to make an application for a federal firearms license (commonly referred to as an “FFL”) you would send the completed application to the ATF post office box listed on the application form, ATF Form 7 – Application for License (FFL). The application must be accompanied by the proper application fee, which you can pay by check, credit card or money order {we do not accept cash). Once the application fee is processed, the FFLC will enter your application information into its database and commence a full review of your application and supporting materials, including fingerprint cards and photographs. The FFLC will review the fingerprint cards you submitted for clarity and, as required by law, will then conduct an electronic background check on all the “responsible persons” you have identified on your application. ATF defines a responsible person as a sole proprietor, partner, or anyone having the power to direct the management, policies, and practices of the business as it pertains to firearms. In a corporation this includes corporate officers, shareholders, board members, or any other employee with the legal authority described above.

    The FFLC will then send the applications for new licenses to the nearest ATF field office having responsibility for the area in which your business is located. The field office supervisor will issue an assignment to an Industry Operations Investigator (IOI) who will conduct an in-person interview with you. The IOI will discuss Federal and State and local requirements with you, and go over your application with you to ensure the information is correct and current. The IOI will then prepare a report of his/her interview, the inspection and make a recommendation to either issue you the license or deny the application. Some reasons for denial may include failure to comply with State or local law (such as zoning ordinances), evidence of previous willful violations of the Gun Control Act, or falsification of the application.

    The field office supervisor will also review the report and then submit his/her recommendation to the FFLC. Assuming that all background checks have been completed and your business address and proposed business operations are in compliance with State and local law, the FFLC will complete the application processing and issue you the license. [This will take approximately 60 days from the time your application was first received and if the application you submitted was completely and correctly filled out.

    Frequently Asked Questions on Obtaining a Federal Firearms License A Frequently Asked Questions Guide to Licensing Requirements Applicable to Federal Firearms Licenses (18 U.S.C. 923)

    This page is designed to give people who are new to commerce in firearms and in particular, new to dealing in, (including pawnbroker activities), manufacturing (ammunition and firearms) and importing in firearms other than destructive devices and dealing in, manufacturing of and importing of destructive devices, a general understanding of ATF regulations and procedures. However, nothing provided here can substitute for consulting the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide, ATF Publication 5300.4, revised September 2005.

    Q: How long does it take to approve/disapprove an application for a Federal Firearms License?

    We would approve or, depending on the circumstances, disapprove an application within a 60-day period which begins with the day your application is received at the Federal Firearms Licensing Center in Martinsburg, West Virginia (FFLC).

    [18 USC 923(d)(2), 27 CFR 478.47(c)]

    Q: What is the process ATF uses to review a renewal or an amended application for a Federal Firearms License (FFL)?

    Because amended license and renewal license applications are not always forwarded to the field for inspection, depending on the unique facts of each application, thereview processes can vary slightly from that of a new FFL application. However, successful completion of all necessary background checks for the responsible persons and your continued compliance with State and local law remain conditions for receiving a renewed license, among other requirements.

    Q: When do I get my license?

    The Gun Control Act requires ATF to act on a properly completed application within 60 days. ATF usually considers an application to have been properly completed when all required information has been provided to ATF in writing. This includes submission of the correct number of legible fingerprint cards, the correct fee, a correctly completed application, etc. If material changes have to be made to an application(e.g., a change from one license type to another or the addition of or changes to the responsible persons, different business name, premises address, hours of operation, EIN, etc.) after its initial receipt by the FFLC, then the 60-day processing period may re-start.

    The FFLC generates licenses every business day based on the receipt of field recommendations. Licenses are sent first class mail to your mailing address of record from the FFLC. A start-up packet of new forms and other important business information is sent separately upon issuance of the license.

    Q: What circumstances may cause a delay in final action on a Federal Firearms License application?

    Some examples of factors that could affect timely processing of your application could include the local ATF field office being unable to contact you for the purpose of the face-to-face interview; your need for additional time to satisfy the requirements of your local zoning boards or other State and local agencies in order to bring your proposed business premises into compliance with State or local law; the FBI being unable to adequately complete the required background checks because of incomplete or aged court records or fingerprint card imprints that could not be “read” and require re-submission, or insufficient fee payment.

    If the field office’s recommendation is to deny your application, then a different process applies. That process requires the field office to notify you in writing of the reasons for denial and give you the chance to request and attend a hearing to review the evidence upon which the denial is based. The Gun Control Act also affords you the right to appeal any adverse decision to Federal district court. This process is significantly lengthy and could obviously exceed 60 days.

    [If you submit a license renewal application with the appropriate fee prior to the expiration date of your current license, you can contact the FFLC and request what is called a Letter of Authorization (LOA). An LOA will act as evidence of your licensed status until we act on your pending renewal application and can be provided by the license holder to suppliers to verify that you are a licensee in good standing awaiting final ATF action on your renewal application.

    Suppliers may also use FFL eZ Check on the ATF website to verify the licensed status of any prospective customer prior to consummating a firearm transaction. FFL eZ Check is an ATF program that allows an FFL or other user to verify that a FFL is valid. (Note: FFL eZ Check does not validate Type 03 (Collectors of Curios and Relics) and Type 06 (Manufacturer of Ammunition) licenses. All attempts to check the validity of Type 03 and Type 06 licenses will result in an error message, even though the licenses may be valid. An FFL should not use this error message as reason to deny dealing with a Type 03 licensee.)

    Q: What are the record keeping requirements for FFL’s?

    Licensees must maintain records of all firearms receipts and dispositions, including the name, age, and place of residence of purchasers. 18 USC 922(b)(5) and 923(g)(1)(A). Licensed importers and manufacturers are required to identify firearms they import or manufacture by means of a serial number, which must be recorded in licensee records. 18 USC 923(i). Licensees are required to respond immediately to ATF firearms trace requests. 18 USC 923(g)(6). Reports of multiple sales of two or more handguns sold at one time or during any five consecutive business days are also required to be submitted to ATF. 18 USC 923(g)(3). Licensees who discontinue business must deliver their records to ATF. 18 USC 923(g)(4).

    These requirements enable ATF to carry out one of the principal purposes of the GCA—to assist State, local, and foreign law enforcement officials in tracing firearms used in crime.

    The United States government does not maintain records of licensees’ firearms transactions, other than the previously mentioned out-of-business records, reports of multiple handgun sales, and records of firearms traces. The assimilation of the information from these records provides valuable leads in the identification of illegal gun traffickers and their sources of firearms in the United States.

    Regulations at 22 CFR 122.5 require that records of all transactions authorized by export, temporary import, and temporary export licenses must be maintained by the applicant for a period of 5 years. The records must be made available to United States Customs officers upon demand. These transactions are also computerized at the Department of State and Customs ports.

     

     

     
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    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:

     

    Except that criminals don't buy guns through legal process. So there's that

     

     



    Where do criminals get their guns?



    The question is HOW do they get their guns.

    answer that, and you will in the process answer where.  

    My guess is that they get them out of the back of beat up sedans.

     
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    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     



    Just how many people do you think have not tried heroin only because it is illegal?

     

    I think it's a larger percentage than one would think but obviously that's an assumption on my part.

    Couldn't disagree more. I think the people who haven't tried heroin have done so because they have a brain in their head. Has nothing to do with it being illegal. These same people who've never tried heroin weren't concerned about drinking alcohol illegally. They didn't care about smoking pot illegally. Heroin is a whole other ball game. Dangerous sh!te

     

    Many people don't commit robbery or B&E's or other crimes only because it's illegal. The threat of jail is very persuasive to the large majority of people.

    Again disagree. For most part people who don't commit robberies do so because of morals. They know it's wrong and therefore don't do it. 

    I think that with heroin being illegal, many people don't do the drug because they don't know a dealer, criminals tend not to advertise their occupation. You really have to work at finding it.

    You're out of your mind if you actually believe that. Sorry, not trying to offend you but I mean come on...you really think people who don't use heroin do so because they can't find a dealer??? Clearly it can't be THAT hard to find one considering there are plenty who use it.  

     




     
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    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    Prescription drugs are more freely available and they account for more overdoses in the US than illegal drugs, despite being manufactured to purity standards.



    The USA largest producer of guns and perscription drugs...........................hmmmmmm

     
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    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In my opinion it is the addictive properties of drugs that are the problem. Having such an addictive drug like heroin freely available would increase the number of addicts



    Well, that's an opinion.

     

    I don't think it is correct for the reason I stated: Just how many people do you think have not tried heroin only because it is illegal?

     

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    The purity of say heroin would have no effect on overdoses.



    That is demonstrably false. See Switzerland's program.

     

    A large number of heroin doses are specifically because the user received an unusally high potency batch. The amount that would usually get them high then kills them.

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    The nature of addiction is to get higher and higher. If that takes twice the normal amount the next time then an addict will do it. And then it will take three times more and so on until you get to the overdose stage, regardless of purity.

     

    Well no, not really. Not for the serious addicts who do the most overdosing.

     

    At first they get higher and higher.

    Then there is a long stretch where they only get so high - and usually on in the first dose of a run - and it's simply that it takes more and more to get high.

    Then there's the home stretch: They don't get 'high' except maybe a minute or two of genuine pleasure, or on the first couple shots of a post-detox relapse. They're just using it to stave off withdrawal symptoms. Of course, sometimes they still do try to get high by shooting a huge amount.

     

    Addiction doctors will tell you this. Indeed, Layne Staley said as much in the 2002 article that ran weeks before he finally OD'd. He'd reached the point where he wasn't using drugs to get high.


     An addict will not think they are getting high because "high" has become the norm. In their mind they are just trying to maintain.

     
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    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    I wonder if the victims and their families will get a ride on Air Force one...NOT!!!!

     
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    Re: 14 stabbed at college in Texas. Will the victims familes be flown to Washington to support banning knives??

    In response to Newtster's comment:

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

     

    In response to Newtster's comment:

     

    Speak to them, they are the ones ignoring the mental health side completely. 

     



    Stop pretending that gopers want to pay for it.  They don't...and those are the ones who even acknowledge the problem.  

     

    The way they fight tooth and nail against any sort of meaningful health care reform, it's a wonder they care at all.

    Instead, they'll open more crony capitalist privatized prisons with their slave labor and abhorrent conditions and zero savings to the taxpayer.

     

     



    Who said anything about GOPers? I'm talking about Democrats. Why aren't THEY talking about mental health care in connection with gun violence? You claim that is what "this" is all about, not guns. You are living on another planet. Maybe if the Dems dropped their obsession with meaningless gun laws and admitted that is not the solution to the problem, they could put some pressure on Republicans to support a mental health approach.

     

    But the liberal Democrats, led by the dope in the White House, does NOTHING about that and the message from there is all about political advantage and GUNS.

    As evidenced by the 2100-page ACA that nobody read before they voted on it, government attempts at meaningful healthcare reform do not exist. Virtually nothing that was promised in the lies that sold it is coming to be. 

     



    What is the "mental health approach" that you are talking about?  

    And you are absolutely wrong about "meaningless gun laws".  The laws proposed have been used in other countries (some states too) and gun violence has been reduced.  And meaningful healthcare reform has been achieved, both here and elsewhere.  But ideologues don't like facts. You are the one on your own little planet, a planet full of rants and not much facts. 

     

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