A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

    What if ammunition purchases required the serial number and proof of ownership of the gun they are intended for?



    They'd have to find a better way to keep the serial numbers on guns, since criminals do a good job scraping them off. The more dedicated ones would probably spend the time scrping them off the bullets as well.

     

     




     

    That's the point, though - if you don't know the serial number, you can't buy ammo.  It targets the criminals, and is only a minor inconvenience to the law-abiding gun owners.

    It might drive up the cost of bullets, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, as pointed out in other posts.  It could open up a new non-lethal ammo market that does not have the requirement.

     

     




     

     

     

    Well, the trouble would be legal owners selling to others who then scrape off the serial numbers.

    It would seem to require not only a careful tracking of all transfers, but also actually checking up on people to make sure they still have their guns. Which still wouldn't get rid of "it was stolen/lost".

     

    Throw up enough requirements and it would start to look just as dirty as Republicans undermining Roe by trying to make it as difficult as possible to get an aboriton (wait periods, requiring doctors to give false medical advice, counseling requirements, etc).




    I could see a bullet black market emerging, but the effort of scraping off serial numbers, combined with the fact that all criminals would be fishing from the same ammo pool should at least make the altered ammo much more expensive and difficult to acquire.

    I don't think transfers or lost/stolen guns would be an issue - if you go to buy ammo, and the gun is in not in your name, then you go fix it and come back.  If you steal a gun and try to buy ammo with it, you're denied.  If you lose a loaded gun, or if your gun and ammo are stolen, and you don't report them, you're not a very responsible gun owner.  I don't know if you've committed a crime in that case, but you are certainly on the hook for any civil court cases that arise.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Is it not a mass shooting that has brought about this latest surge in attempts to more tightly control guns?



    Please highlight the portion of the original post in which the author claimed the purpose of his proposal was restricted to preventing mass shootings.

     

     



     

    So, this proposal dropped from the sky? Show me where he specified any specific I situation.   would a reasonable person asume that his post is driven by shootings in Chicago?

    your attempt at boxing is weak.  Any honest debater would admit when they are wrong.  The entirety of the current gun debate is driven by one event, a mass shooting at an elementary school. To claim otherwise is the height of dishonesty.




    The aim of the proposal is to affect a decline in the US per-capita gun homicides, which currently sits between Costa Rica and Zimbabwe.  Considering the low impact to law-abiding gun owners, even a small change in this statistic would sem worthwhile.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    The entirety of the current gun debate is driven by one event, a mass shooting at an elementary school.



    Therefore, nobody is allowed to talk about measures to reduce gun violence in general, even though when they talk about mass shootings specifically you whien and complain that they aren't talking about overall gun violence?

     

     

    Shut up and have another beer.

    [/QUOT

    like I said, the post dropped from the sky. 

    Is my point not valid?  Does a nonspecific post make my point invalid?

    you can't argue your way out of a paper bag.

    face it, you are beat, and throwing out nonsense.

    what does it matter? Hey, I just quoted Hillary!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Is it not a mass shooting that has brought about this latest surge in attempts to more tightly control guns?



    Please highlight the portion of the original post in which the author claimed the purpose of his proposal was restricted to preventing mass shootings.

     

     



     

    So, this proposal dropped from the sky? Show me where he specified any specific I situation.   would a reasonable person asume that his post is driven by shootings in Chicago?

    your attempt at boxing is weak.  Any honest debater would admit when they are wrong.  The entirety of the current gun debate is driven by one event, a mass shooting at an elementary school. To claim otherwise is the height of dishonesty.

     




     

    The aim of the proposal is to affect a decline in the US per-capita gun homicides, which currently sits between Costa Rica and Zimbabwe.  Considering the low impact to law-abiding gun owners, even a small change in this statistic would sem worthwhile.

     



    Sure.  (Eye roll)

    anyone believe him?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    Well, I don't hear any real objection from the right-wingers.

    I think I might write my congresswoman.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Is it not a mass shooting that has brought about this latest surge in attempts to more tightly control guns?



    Please highlight the portion of the original post in which the author claimed the purpose of his proposal was restricted to preventing mass shootings.

     

     



     

    So, this proposal dropped from the sky? Show me where he specified any specific I situation.   would a reasonable person asume that his post is driven by shootings in Chicago?

    your attempt at boxing is weak.  Any honest debater would admit when they are wrong.  The entirety of the current gun debate is driven by one event, a mass shooting at an elementary school. To claim otherwise is the height of dishonesty.

     




     

    The aim of the proposal is to affect a decline in the US per-capita gun homicides, which currently sits between Costa Rica and Zimbabwe.  Considering the low impact to law-abiding gun owners, even a small change in this statistic would sem worthwhile.

     

     



    Sure.  (Eye roll)

     

    anyone believe him?



    What is it you find dubious?

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Is my point not valid?



    Wow you just caught on to my drift.

     

    No, your point is not a point.

    The fact that people started talking about gun violence after watching 20 children be slaughtered does not mean that nobody is allowed to talk about ways to reduce violence in general.

    Go f@rt into the couch while watching football and guzzling your budweiser.

    Or, as I suggested, at least find a soul to rent.

     

     

    There is nothing general about this thread.  ALL these gun control threads are due to the latest mass shooting.  If you can't see that I question your sanity.  I guess I should put up a thread about snow melt, as if a 60 degree day has nothing to do with it.

    That putting serial numbers on bullets won't stop mass shootings, becasue the shooter usually shoot himself or is shot by cops.

    Wow.  That's not relevant.

    I guess you have lost your mind.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    Is my point not valid?



    Wow you just caught on to my drift.

     

    No, your point is not a point.

    The fact that people started talking about gun violence after watching 20 children be slaughtered does not mean that nobody is allowed to talk about ways to reduce violence in general.

    Go f@rt into the couch while watching football and guzzling your budweiser.

    Or, as I suggested, at least find a soul to rent.

     

     

    There is nothing general about this thread.  ALL these gun control threads are due to the latest mass shooting.  If you can't see that I question your sanity.  I guess I should put up a thread about snow melt, as if a 60 degree day has nothing to do with it.

    That putting serial numbers on bullets won't stop mass shootings, becasue the shooter usually shoot himself or is shot by cops.

    Wow.  That's not relevant.

    I guess you have lost your mind.



    The debate was inspired by Newtown, but while mass shootings get all the ink, it's the handguns that are most responsible for homicides.

    I know the knee-jerk reaction on the right is to oppose all legislation, but at the very least, this would help law enforcement in some cases.  At the very least, this would make it a little harder for somebody to commit a crime with an illegal gun.  And seriously - no matter how much you love your guns - isn't it a little bit messed up that bullets are easier to buy than penicillin?

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    The entirety of the current gun debate is driven by one event, a mass shooting at an elementary school.



    Therefore, nobody is allowed to talk about measures to reduce gun violence in general, even though when they talk about mass shootings specifically you whien and complain that they aren't talking about overall gun violence?

     

     

    Shut up and have another beer. (Or find a soul. Rent one, at the very least).




    Honestly..I can't figure out how Skeeter's mind works. The gun control issue was not brought on solely by Sandy Hook...it's just that Sandy Hook was ( and should be) the last straw for most Americans.

    ...the latest in a string of Mass murders which has included a political rally, a movie theatre and a place of worship. We have to ask ourselves  "where does it end". Most logical thinking Americans..including most legal gun owners...understand that we need a holistic approach to what has become a public safety and health issue. This includes stronger controls what kinds of weapons we make available as well as a better understanding of mental health issues.

    I would be curious to know just exactly what Skeeter would do to address the growing problem of gun violence..since he seems to be against just about everything.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    The catalyst for the current gun control  "safety" debate was Sandy Hook coupled with a recent string of mass shootings in Virginia Tech,  Arizona and Colorado.  There is outrage over the needless loss of young innocent lives.  As horrific as these events were; our real gun problem is driven by urban violence and gun death numbers like in Chicago with over 500 gun related deaths last year.

     

    The mass shootings have preponderantly been the result of young men who slipped through the mental health system and came out of college situations.  If these guys couldn't have been identified and appropriate interventions prescribed what makes us think that any changes in gun laws or screening could catch them before they act.   We have a mental health problem not a gun problem for these horrific instances.

     

    Now the urban gang banger violence; that's a whole other problem that needs early anti-gang intervention and alternatives for today's inner city youth.  Their guns are black market guns and no restrictions on legal purchasing will really change that.

     

    But that being said it doesn't mean we should do nothing.  Enforcement of existing laws would help; having Mass report mental health concerns to the Feds instead of them being precluded in doing so by a 1970's law could help.  Requiring all purchases of weapons to include background checks; thus closing the gun show and private sale loopholes, could help in preventing those guns from being diverted into the black market. 

     

    That being said I don't support a uniform nationwide gun registry, it's a big brother thing. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to jedwardnicky's comment:

     

    Just curious. Where do people acquire "illegal" guns? Is there some sort of store you can go to? Because it seems to me that they must come from somewhere, right? Simple question. Any takers?

     




    They are stolen and sold.  The collective group of legal gun owners have failed miserably to keep their guns safe and secure, or worse, they sold them themselves to make a buck.  Either way, the problem is out of control.....we have millions of illegal guns out there.  Its time for the legal gun owners to collectively accept a little responsibility for the issue by agreeing to further regulation.

     

     

     

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    In response to UserName99's comment:

     

    In response to jedwardnicky's comment:

     

    Just curious. Where do people acquire "illegal" guns? Is there some sort of store you can go to? Because it seems to me that they must come from somewhere, right? Simple question. Any takers?

     




    They are stolen and sold.  The collective group of legal gun owners have failed miserably to keep their guns safe and secure, or worse, they sold them themselves to make a buck.  Either way, the problem is out of control.....we have millions of illegal guns out there.  Its time for the legal gun owners to collectively accept a little responsibility for the issue by agreeing to further regulation.

     

     

     

     



    How is further regulation going to get those already millions of illegal guns off the streets? How is further legislation going to make all current gun owners lock up their weapons? Many do, but many still don't. You can't teach/regulate common sense.

     

     




    It won't get the currently illegal ones off the street.  That will take years of police work to chip away at that supply.

    I'm referring to guns purchased now.  Its 2013.  We have the ability to track locations with tiny microchips, we could make guns inoperable if the serial is tampered with, and we can make it just plain harder to get guns.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    The entirety of the current gun debate is driven by one event, a mass shooting at an elementary school.



    Therefore, nobody is allowed to talk about measures to reduce gun violence in general, even though when they talk about mass shootings specifically you whien and complain that they aren't talking about overall gun violence?

     

     

    Shut up and have another beer. (Or find a soul. Rent one, at the very least).

     




    Honestly..I can't figure out how Skeeter's mind works. The gun control issue was not brought on solely by Sandy Hook...it's just that Sandy Hook was ( and should be) the last straw for most Americans.

     

    ...the latest in a string of Mass murders which has included a political rally, a movie theatre and a place of worship. We have to ask ourselves  "where does it end". Most logical thinking Americans..including most legal gun owners...understand that we need a holistic approach to what has become a public safety and health issue. This includes stronger controls what kinds of weapons we make available as well as a better understanding of mental health issues.

    I would be curious to know just exactly what Skeeter would do to address the growing problem of gun violence..since he seems to be against just about everything.

     



    "The gun control issue was not brought on solely by Sandy Hook..."

     


    keep telling yourself that.

    To some extent, the issue is always around in a dormant or semi-dormant state.  Newtown, however, gave the pro gun control forces the emotional capital to take the issue out of its dormant state, and move it to the front burner.

    To think otherwise is completely intellectually dishonest.

     I am not against everything.

     I am against the completely insane concept that the way to address crazy people is to constrain sane people.  

    That is the nub of liberal gun control proposals.

    Here's what I would do to tamp down the string of violence:

      Make it easier for law-abiding citizens to own guns.

    It really is that simple.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    In response to UserName99's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     



    It won't get the currently illegal ones off the street.  That will take years of police work to chip away at that supply.

    "Chip" away at MILLIONS of guns??? That is laughable.

     

    I'm referring to guns purchased now.  Its 2013.  We have the ability to track locations with tiny microchips, we could make guns inoperable if the serial is tampered with, and we can make it just plain harder to get guns.

    You've been watching too many movies.




     



    IT'S THE RETURN OF THE "KNOCK-OUT GAS!!!

    Remember how the liberal solution for terrorists hijacking airplanes was to flood the plane with the magical "knock-out gas" that would put everyone to sleep?

    Same with microchips, serializing ammo.  The left, bless 'em, have no idea how things really work, or should work.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    Here's what I would do to tamp down the string of violence:

      Make it easier for law-abiding citizens to own guns.

    It really is that simple.

     




     

    America has the most guns per capita and the most gun violence per capita on Earth.



    and its citizens have the most freedoms

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    Here's what I would do to tamp down the string of violence:

      Make it easier for law-abiding citizens to own guns.

    It really is that simple.

     




     

    America has the most guns per capita and the most gun violence per capita on Earth.



    So? clearly we have not reached the point where we have enough guns in the right hands.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    Who's arguing that?



    It's the unavoidable absurd conclusion of your argument, at least of as much of it as you've put up on the boards.

     

     

    Every time someone proposes something aimed at restricting gun or ammo ownership to reduce gun violence, you say that no number of laws will affect it. That position leads straight to the next question: why have any laws at all?

    It doesn't magically stop at "well, lets keep the ones we have now, but not add more" - because that suggests more (better) gun laws could reduce gun violence. If some work, why wouldn't more or better?

     



    Your assumption is wrong. 

     

    I have merely pointed out that simply adding more gun laws isn't going to miraculously stop mass killings. You pointed to England except that it's apples and oranges to compare US to England. England bans pretty much ALL guns. So unless you plan on doing that in the US then don't expect that we'll ever be like England in terms of gun related deaths. 

    Add more laws...I'm just not going to be naive enough to believe it's going to make such big changes.

     

     




    Ok.

     

     

    Well I disagree on the futility of it. Obviously, it makes no sense to talk about becomming England as long as the 2nd Amd. is around.

    But, I think the suggestions involving background checks, requiring all gun and ammo sales to be registered (including private sales from a friend to a friend, etc), and making it a serious offense to fail to register such a sale, and the like would make it a lot hard for new guns to get onto the black market.

    Nothing is going to stop things altogether. Any restrictions are going to take time because existing guns need to leave the black market (they usually do as they are used, and then the user discards the gun or is caught by the poliec with it).

    But... I really don't see why anyone should assume these things would have negligible impact.



    What makes the impact negligible is that, as soon as you do that, the crooks are off to another source, and the crazies just don't care.

     

    So, as I see it, the impact is negligible.

    The ONLY thing I have heard recently that makes any sense is tightening up private/un documented sales.  That may have an impact.  It also may have unintended consequences that make gun ownership more difficult, more problematic, ie. infringement.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    In response to UserName99's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I'm referring to guns purchased now.  Its 2013.  We have the ability to track locations with tiny microchips, we could make guns inoperable if the serial is tampered with, and we can make it just plain harder to get guns.

    You've been watching too many movies.

    So you doubt we have this technology?  Make it a requirement and watch how fast it gets done. 




     




     
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