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A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 10:49 AM EST
- WhatDoYouWantNow
- Posts: 13577
- First: 7/8/2010
- Last: 5/17/2013
People break laws. It's laughable that we still have laws.
Great argument.
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 11:16 AM EST
- WhatDoYouWantNow
- Posts: 13577
- First: 7/8/2010
- Last: 5/17/2013
In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
Who's arguing that?
It's the unavoidable absurd conclusion of your argument, at least of as much of it as you've put up on the boards.Every time someone proposes something aimed at restricting gun or ammo ownership to reduce gun violence, you say that no number of laws will affect it. That position leads straight to the next question: why have any laws at all?
It doesn't magically stop at "well, lets keep the ones we have now, but not add more" - because that suggests more (better) gun laws could reduce gun violence. If some work, why wouldn't more or better?
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 11:31 AM EST
- skeeter20
- Posts: 15385
- First: 12/28/2009
- Last: 5/18/2013
In response to miscricket's comment:
In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
In response to skeeter20's comment:
The entirety of the current gun debate is driven by one event, a mass shooting at an elementary school.
Therefore, nobody is allowed to talk about measures to reduce gun violence in general, even though when they talk about mass shootings specifically you whien and complain that they aren't talking about overall gun violence?Shut up and have another beer. (Or find a soul. Rent one, at the very least).
Honestly..I can't figure out how Skeeter's mind works. The gun control issue was not brought on solely by Sandy Hook...it's just that Sandy Hook was ( and should be) the last straw for most Americans....the latest in a string of Mass murders which has included a political rally, a movie theatre and a place of worship. We have to ask ourselves "where does it end". Most logical thinking Americans..including most legal gun owners...understand that we need a holistic approach to what has become a public safety and health issue. This includes stronger controls what kinds of weapons we make available as well as a better understanding of mental health issues.
I would be curious to know just exactly what Skeeter would do to address the growing problem of gun violence..since he seems to be against just about everything.
"The gun control issue was not brought on solely by Sandy Hook..."
keep telling yourself that.To some extent, the issue is always around in a dormant or semi-dormant state. Newtown, however, gave the pro gun control forces the emotional capital to take the issue out of its dormant state, and move it to the front burner.
To think otherwise is completely intellectually dishonest.
I am not against everything.
I am against the completely insane concept that the way to address crazy people is to constrain sane people.
That is the nub of liberal gun control proposals.
Here's what I would do to tamp down the string of violence:
Make it easier for law-abiding citizens to own guns.
It really is that simple.
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 11:34 AM EST
- skeeter20
- Posts: 15385
- First: 12/28/2009
- Last: 5/18/2013
In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
In response to UserName99's comment:
[QUOTE]It won't get the currently illegal ones off the street. That will take years of police work to chip away at that supply.
"Chip" away at MILLIONS of guns??? That is laughable.
I'm referring to guns purchased now. Its 2013. We have the ability to track locations with tiny microchips, we could make guns inoperable if the serial is tampered with, and we can make it just plain harder to get guns.
You've been watching too many movies.
IT'S THE RETURN OF THE "KNOCK-OUT GAS!!!Remember how the liberal solution for terrorists hijacking airplanes was to flood the plane with the magical "knock-out gas" that would put everyone to sleep?
Same with microchips, serializing ammo. The left, bless 'em, have no idea how things really work, or should work.
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 11:44 AM EST
- WhatDoYouWantNow
- Posts: 13577
- First: 7/8/2010
- Last: 5/17/2013
In response to skeeter20's comment:
Here's what I would do to tamp down the string of violence:
Make it easier for law-abiding citizens to own guns.
It really is that simple.
America has the most guns per capita and the most gun violence per capita on Earth.
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 11:46 AM EST
- WhatDoYouWantNow
- Posts: 13577
- First: 7/8/2010
- Last: 5/17/2013
In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
Who's arguing that?
It's the unavoidable absurd conclusion of your argument, at least of as much of it as you've put up on the boards.Every time someone proposes something aimed at restricting gun or ammo ownership to reduce gun violence, you say that no number of laws will affect it. That position leads straight to the next question: why have any laws at all?
It doesn't magically stop at "well, lets keep the ones we have now, but not add more" - because that suggests more (better) gun laws could reduce gun violence. If some work, why wouldn't more or better?
Your assumption is wrong.I have merely pointed out that simply adding more gun laws isn't going to miraculously stop mass killings. You pointed to England except that it's apples and oranges to compare US to England. England bans pretty much ALL guns. So unless you plan on doing that in the US then don't expect that we'll ever be like England in terms of gun related deaths.
Add more laws...I'm just not going to be naive enough to believe it's going to make such big changes.
Ok.Well I disagree on the futility of it. Obviously, it makes no sense to talk about becomming England as long as the 2nd Amd. is around.
But, I think the suggestions involving background checks, requiring all gun and ammo sales to be registered (including private sales from a friend to a friend, etc), and making it a serious offense to fail to register such a sale, and the like would make it a lot hard for new guns to get onto the black market.
Nothing is going to stop things altogether. Any restrictions are going to take time because existing guns need to leave the black market (they usually do as they are used, and then the user discards the gun or is caught by the poliec with it).
But... I really don't see why anyone should assume these things would have negligible impact.
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 12:03 PM EST
- massmoderateJoe
- Posts: 4878
- First: 6/5/2008
- Last: 5/15/2013
In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
In response to skeeter20's comment:
Here's what I would do to tamp down the string of violence:
Make it easier for law-abiding citizens to own guns.
It really is that simple.
America has the most guns per capita and the most gun violence per capita on Earth.
and its citizens have the most freedoms -
Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 12:29 PM EST
- skeeter20
- Posts: 15385
- First: 12/28/2009
- Last: 5/18/2013
In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
In response to skeeter20's comment:
Here's what I would do to tamp down the string of violence:
Make it easier for law-abiding citizens to own guns.
It really is that simple.
America has the most guns per capita and the most gun violence per capita on Earth.
So? clearly we have not reached the point where we have enough guns in the right hands. -
Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 12:32 PM EST
- skeeter20
- Posts: 15385
- First: 12/28/2009
- Last: 5/18/2013
In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
Who's arguing that?
It's the unavoidable absurd conclusion of your argument, at least of as much of it as you've put up on the boards.Every time someone proposes something aimed at restricting gun or ammo ownership to reduce gun violence, you say that no number of laws will affect it. That position leads straight to the next question: why have any laws at all?
It doesn't magically stop at "well, lets keep the ones we have now, but not add more" - because that suggests more (better) gun laws could reduce gun violence. If some work, why wouldn't more or better?
Your assumption is wrong.I have merely pointed out that simply adding more gun laws isn't going to miraculously stop mass killings. You pointed to England except that it's apples and oranges to compare US to England. England bans pretty much ALL guns. So unless you plan on doing that in the US then don't expect that we'll ever be like England in terms of gun related deaths.
Add more laws...I'm just not going to be naive enough to believe it's going to make such big changes.
Ok.Well I disagree on the futility of it. Obviously, it makes no sense to talk about becomming England as long as the 2nd Amd. is around.
But, I think the suggestions involving background checks, requiring all gun and ammo sales to be registered (including private sales from a friend to a friend, etc), and making it a serious offense to fail to register such a sale, and the like would make it a lot hard for new guns to get onto the black market.
Nothing is going to stop things altogether. Any restrictions are going to take time because existing guns need to leave the black market (they usually do as they are used, and then the user discards the gun or is caught by the poliec with it).
But... I really don't see why anyone should assume these things would have negligible impact.
What makes the impact negligible is that, as soon as you do that, the crooks are off to another source, and the crazies just don't care.So, as I see it, the impact is negligible.
The ONLY thing I have heard recently that makes any sense is tightening up private/un documented sales. That may have an impact. It also may have unintended consequences that make gun ownership more difficult, more problematic, ie. infringement.
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 12:37 PM EST
- UserName99
- Posts: 1981
- First: 5/9/2011
- Last: 5/18/2013
In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
In response to UserName99's comment:
[QUOTE]I'm referring to guns purchased now. Its 2013. We have the ability to track locations with tiny microchips, we could make guns inoperable if the serial is tampered with, and we can make it just plain harder to get guns.
You've been watching too many movies.
So you doubt we have this technology? Make it a requirement and watch how fast it gets done.
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 12:52 PM EST
- WhatDoYouWantNow
- Posts: 13577
- First: 7/8/2010
- Last: 5/17/2013
In response to skeeter20's comment:
the crooks are off to another source
Which is why the proposals would close off other sources.
Stop drinking so much so early. It's hurting your brain cell
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 1:19 PM EST
- UserName99
- Posts: 1981
- First: 5/9/2011
- Last: 5/18/2013
In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
Please explain how filing off a serial number can make a gun inoperable.Just forget about the millions and millions of guns that are currently available??? That's some plan. You do realize the guys we'd want to track are the one that are currently on the streets illegally right??? Sigh
If we have the technology to get a 2000 lb bullet to fly 2 miles, or have the technology to make bullets fly around corners, then i'm sure we have engineers that can figure out how to tie a serial number to the firing mechanism.As I said...the guns that are already out there need a different approach. A combination of police work, and buy back initiatives....funded by a draconian tax on guns and ammo would be my preference.
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 1:24 PM EST
- skeeter20
- Posts: 15385
- First: 12/28/2009
- Last: 5/18/2013
In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
In response to skeeter20's comment:
the crooks are off to another sourceWhich is why the proposals would close off other sources.
Stop drinking so much so early. It's hurting your brain cell
Sigh.You are just plain stupid.
Closing off LEGAL sources disrupts a couple of crooks, and no crazies.
Proposals to close off LEGAL sources of guns does not impact ILLEGAL sources of guns.
Face it: The gross stupidity of the left in understanding market theory is really impinging on your ability to make a cogent argument about gun control.
Proof that liberals are dumber than boxes of rocks on top of two planks nailed together.
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 1:28 PM EST
- skeeter20
- Posts: 15385
- First: 12/28/2009
- Last: 5/18/2013
In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
In response to UserName99's comment:
In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
In response to UserName99's comment:
[QUOTE]I'm referring to guns purchased now. Its 2013. We have the ability to track locations with tiny microchips, we could make guns inoperable if the serial is tampered with, and we can make it just plain harder to get guns.
You've been watching too many movies.
So you doubt we have this technology? Make it a requirement and watch how fast it gets done.
Please explain how filing off a serial number can make a gun inoperable.Just forget about the millions and millions of guns that are currently available??? That's some plan. You do realize the guys we'd want to track are the one that are currently on the streets illegally right??? Sigh
Liberals tip their hand here. What they want is to track LEGAL guns. they just don't see illegal guns as a problem. After all, those using illegal guns, i.e. innercity gang bangers, if they vote at all, vote Democrat.Legal gun owners, on the other hand, generally dfon't vote Democrat, and represent an obstacle, at least in spirit, to their plan to change "government of the people" to government on the people".
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 1:31 PM EST
- UserName99
- Posts: 1981
- First: 5/9/2011
- Last: 5/18/2013
In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
Bullets fly around corners do they? And what type of gun shoots a 2000 lb "bullet"???So there IS no technology available to make guns inoperable if a seriel number is filied off. Thanks!
The answer to both questions is military weapons designed by military weapons contractors.
You don't have much faith in engineers do you? Regulations are always pushing engineers to build safer and more efficient items.
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 1:32 PM EST
- UserName99
- Posts: 1981
- First: 5/9/2011
- Last: 5/18/2013
In response to skeeter20's comment:
In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
In response to UserName99's comment:
In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
In response to UserName99's comment:
[QUOTE]I'm referring to guns purchased now. Its 2013. We have the ability to track locations with tiny microchips, we could make guns inoperable if the serial is tampered with, and we can make it just plain harder to get guns.
You've been watching too many movies.
So you doubt we have this technology? Make it a requirement and watch how fast it gets done.
Please explain how filing off a serial number can make a gun inoperable.Just forget about the millions and millions of guns that are currently available??? That's some plan. You do realize the guys we'd want to track are the one that are currently on the streets illegally right??? Sigh
Liberals tip their hand here. What they want is to track LEGAL guns. they just don't see illegal guns as a problem. After all, those using illegal guns, i.e. innercity gang bangers, if they vote at all, vote Democrat.Legal gun owners, on the other hand, generally dfon't vote Democrat, and represent an obstacle, at least in spirit, to their plan to change "government of the people" to government on the people".
Hey dummy....the supply of illegal guns is legal guns. Sorry you don't grasp that. -
Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 1:46 PM EST
- WhatDoYouWantNow
- Posts: 13577
- First: 7/8/2010
- Last: 5/17/2013
In response to skeeter20's comment:
blah blah blah, crap crap crap, I hate liberals.
We knew that already. Silly trust fund baby. -
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Re: A serious gun control proposal - can anybody get behind this?
posted at 1/31/2013 2:17 PM EST
- UserName99
- Posts: 1981
- First: 5/9/2011
- Last: 5/18/2013
In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
So again, what type of gun shoots a 2000 lb "bullet". And what type of gun shoots bullets that can change direction by flying around corners?shooting around corners
battleship artillary info.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armament_of_the_Iowa_class_battleship